not appearing over-eager...advice?
I think the whole "friendly, smiling and eager to please" thing actually makes me less money. I feel like I come off as over-eager or desperate, which either a) tells guys that they can walk all over me...
...b) makes them feel at ease about spending less money than they otherwise might ("haha, I can tell she wants me bad; I'll just get one dance and not give a tip" vs. a little bit intimidated...I'm seeing that getting them just a little intimidated is good for $$ and gets them in a place where they are hesitant to say no.)
...and/or c) makes them think they can get away with more for less money when i do make the sale.
I can't tell you how many times I've come out of a grueling VIP room where the guy had me grinding nonstop and I had to yank his hand out of my thong, or his tongue off my body, or his fucking tentacles out of my asscrack, every goddamn five minutes, and trying to pressure me into giving out my number for sex, and giving me no tip...only to walk by the other rooms and see girls sitting on their guy's lap sipping champagne and chatting.
Happens all the time. Why don't *I* get those laid-back rooms with custys that will pay for VIP just to have a few sexy-but-clean dances, conversation and some good escapist fun? I always always always get the pervs who want "the most bang" for their precious dollar. ::)
I'm pretty sure that it's because I come off as over-eager, nervous about making the sale, or lacking confidence. Thing is, I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing that is giving off those vibes!
What makes the difference between appearing confident and presenting yourself to a guy in a way that makes him think that he's priveleged to be spending time with you and it's worth any amount of money, rather than the other way around (like he's doing me some kind of favor and he can work me hard and make me do whatever he wants for as little money as possible?)
How can I tweak things so that I appear to be a prize that he just has to have, rather than appearing over-eager to please? Verbal things? Body language? What kinds of signals might I be sending that make me look over-eager, and what can I do differently?
Any advice for getting them to that "slightly intimidated" point? (You know, the point right in between "she's my bitch and I can either dismiss her or do whatever I want to her" and "TOO intimidated and thus, turned off".
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
yes, id like to know the answer to this too :)
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
I used to notice this when I was new and nervous. Guys in strip clubs are good at sensing that vibe and absolutely viscious about taking advantage of it.
Do you feel confident about making sales? Do you feel like you are worth $20 for the dance or $xxx for the VIP? Do you feel like you are the one in control? Because if you feel it, it's a lot easier to project than if you don't.
Simple answer on body language, etc. When we are feeling confident and in control, our body language relaxes, so if you want to appear confident, relax. Straighten up your posture, slow down your breathing, and relax your facial muscles. These changes -- especially slowing down your breathing -- will slow down your heart rate and lower your blood pressure as well, so after a little bit you will actually feel more relaxed.
I would try doing a kind of meditation on your own time. Sit quiet and conjure up what it's like to feel confident and beautiful and in control. Concentrate on some moments when you have felt that way. Notice what those feelings do to your body language. Try to "memorize" that feeling in your body until you can conjure it up on command.
More than anything, it's time, though. How long have you been dancing? The longer I dance, the more I seem to find the customers who feel lucky to be getting a dance from me, not the other way around.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
Grace is exactly right. There is a big difference between allowing someone to buy from you and selling to someone. You're stuck in the mode of allowing them to buy from you. You need to be a bit more bold, a lot more confident, and be in charge without being bossy. The reason your customers walk all over you is because you are subtly giving him permission to do so. Be more confident in yourself and what you are doing and you'll see better results.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
You absolutely HAVE to start believing and projecting the image that you are worth more than they are going to give you. Not just enough, but MORE. Then you will find a whole new plethora of closing techniques that will work in your favor, as well as the nicer customers. Confidence weeds the men from the snakes.
An example: Your club VIP price is $300 an hour? Then you have to believe with all your heart that you are worth spending hours of that quality time with in VIP, plus a tip because you are so great to be around. Be fun and sexy, not a megabitch, but also KNOW that you are worth it.
If you can't come to terms with this feeling right away, you will eventually because you are able to see the big picture. All it will take is a few more customers treating you like a piece of meat for you to "lose it" so to speak and start demanding more respect. I think you already know how to do this, you just have to apply it.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
i agree with the body language advice. i swear it's given me a nack for picking out the guys who want the clean dance and conversation in the vip lounge and weeds out the ones who want a more sexual dance.
i pretend i'm a powerful queen while i'm at work. i dress elegantly: long velvet skirt, classy yet sexy halter top, tall stilettos. seductive, not slutty. i stand very tall, walk slowly and gracefully, keeping my neck up, even elongating it. i act like a queen, too. not a self-centered, bitchy queen, but a polite, intelligent diplomat with a sense of humor, who knows what she wants, knows what she is talking about, and is full of confidence, confidence, confidence, and grace. think queen elizabeth the first or padme amidala from star wars. this queen knows she's royalty and that anyone would be lucky to get a dance from her. she doesn't tolerate b.s. from anyone. i swear, this attitude works wonders. yet she is not rude, condescending, or bratty.
this is my method. if the "queen" character doesn't suit you, just adopt the body language and attitude. i swear you'll see a difference.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
How do you start the VIP? That dictates how the rest of your time goes.
If you start by dancing right away, you will finish that way. If you start by sitting (side by side) and chatting as his card gets run, etc., and take longer to start dancing then the focus is on your talk-hustle.
At the club I have been working at recently, they have a little stage with a light box floor (the lighting makes you look awesome BTW) in one of the VIPs, so you can use that to start off dancing on...it makes it feel like the guy really is getting a personal show and then the dancer can hold off contact for a little bit while the momentum builds. Its is cool, I have had the most fun in that VIP.
Alternatively, you can start off dancing by on of the other couches and work your way towards him.
Have you ever had a VIP? I got an hour with a guy I know in Vegas, he paid, otherwise I never would dream of spending that much money at the SC, and I learned a lot.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
You ladies (and Adam ;) ) are brilliant. I love the "queen" analogy. Love it.
sunnie, great advice about how to start off the VIP! I always end up thinking "omg he just paid $300 for a half hour with me; he's going to want 'his money's worth'...." so I start off right in his lap. That might be a mistake!
By contrast, I did a double VIP once with a girl who always always always banks. She's in VIP all the time. (I admit, when my custy said "why don't you go pick out another girl for us?", I asked her b/c I wanted to observe what she did up there that had men constantly coming back for more.) She did start out with conversation, and drew the time out before actually starting to dance. And when she did finalyl make her way to his lap, she moved slooooooowly. Almost like I was watching a slow-motion video clip. And she spent as much time off of him and running her hands over her own body as she did touching him. And the guy went crazy.
Also, good idea on the meditation and observing physiological changes/feeling so i can recall them while I'm making a sale. I will definitely try that.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Picaresque
You ladies (and Adam ;) ) are brilliant. I love the "queen" analogy. Love it.
sunnie, great advice about how to start off the VIP! I always end up thinking "omg he just paid $300 for a half hour with me; he's going to want 'his money's worth'...." so I start off right in his lap. That might be a mistake!
By contrast, I did a double VIP once with a girl who always always always banks. She's in VIP all the time. (I admit, when my custy said "why don't you go pick out another girl for us?", I asked her b/c I wanted to observe what she did up there that had men constantly coming back for more.) She did start out with conversation, and drew the time out before actually starting to dance. And when she did finalyl make her way to his lap, she moved slooooooowly. Almost like I was watching a slow-motion video clip. And she spent as much time off of him and running her hands over her own body as she did touching him. And the guy went crazy.
Also, good idea on the meditation and observing physiological changes/feeling so i can recall them while I'm making a sale. I will definitely try that.
let me know if the "queen" analogy works for you. i will do what your banking girl does next time in vip or even in a regular dance to see how that goes....
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
I want to try both of these techniques as soon as I go back to work! I'm curious mina loy...do you look like your avatar or is that someone else?
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AlexxaHex
I want to try both of these techniques as soon as I go back to work! I'm curious mina loy...do you look like your avatar or is that someone else?
ha, ha...good question! it's definitely a look i aspire to. i'm caucasian and have red hair that's in a shaggy/choppy longish bob. unless there's pink henna dye out there i won't look like my avatar 100%. in other words, no, it's not me but i wish it was. it's definitely my "style".
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
That's funny because that's how my hair looks right now too. Sort of a more natural red at the moment, but sometimes I put Manic Panic red over it to make it stand out more.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
picaresque, how is the "queen" analogy working for you?
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
You need to balance confidence with friendliness. The fact that you are smiling and come across is great don't ever lose that because it does attract customers. I always walk around smiling and I get asked for dances a lot of the time, on saturday nights I don't even have to hustle.
But don't look like a push-over who will put up with anything either.
The only advise about confidence I can give u is to develop it, I don't think it's something that can be faked because it comes across in body language and verbally. Try changing the way that you think - self-talk esp critical sel-talk "he won't get a dance" etc is very self-destructive.
You have to believe that you are worth their money and theonly way to do this is to work on your self-esteem.
Dancing has improved my self esteem but it has taken time. I used to do a lot of negative self-talk and I still do sometimes but I block it out when it starts.
I hold my shoulders back and stick my chest and butt out and hold my head high - I not only look confident but I start feeling it too.
Before you leave the dressing room stand in that confident way I described and check yourself out in the mirror think "yeah I'm hot" and walk out there with that attitude. The more you do it the more you will believe it and then so will they.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
When I first started dancing I went through the same thing. Now I realize that you attract the good customers who treat you with respect if they can sense that you respect yourself and believe in what you are worth the money.
Do things that make you feel good about yourself like going to the gym, taking the time to do your hair glamorously, get quality make up, wear false eyelashes...if you don't feel sexy in an outfit or dress don't wear it. You have to make yourself up to as where you feel really hot..if you feel really hot and sexy the guys will wanted dances and VIPs from you...they can just sense it from you. Men love confident women...not arrogant..but the guys that are going to take you in VIP and treat you with respect like sexy, intelligent women that have respect for themselves. Those perves that want to get off in their pants for twenty dollars or practically rape you in the private room are never attracted to me because they sense this about me. They are kinda not that far away from rapists really...they always look for girls who appear weak and unsure of themselves. So be careful and keep that self respect about you and you will land the whales.
Don't appear too eagar to dance for them but act like you would really love and enjoy dancing for them. Usually if I talk to a guy for a song in his lap I whisper in his ear that I would LOVE to dance for him..with a big smile and wink...this usually ALWAYS works...but I keep my body language relaxed and act like I don't NEED to dance for him but actually WANT to and would enjoy it as much as he would.
As I've gotten older I've found the respectful guys are more attracted to me in general. Sometimes feeling confident about yourself is something you develop when you grow a little as a person.
But just be friendly, let a little of your true personality show, have a sense of humor and be VERY concious of your body language...have open body language but not desperate body language...be aware if your feet or posture or hands tense up while asking for a dance...and try to make eye contact when asking him. Be affectionate in a sweet and relaxed way...not in a desperate sleezy way.
Also with going in VIP I agree about not being too eagar to rip off your clothes in there. You may be thinking wow 300 an hour yippe! But don't FEEL like you have to give him a sluttier dance or let him get away with more...you have to change your thinking that he is paying for your TIME and COMPANY..remain engaged, make him feel like he is hot and sexy, and have a good time. Dont' worry this will make him feel like that money was worth it. This is how you have to feel about going in VIP...not oh my god I have to be sexual with him or let him take advantage of me because of how much money he is giving me. Know that he is paying you that much because he is reserving you, because you are special and worth it. That you are different are more special than any other dancer in that club and he will feel like he is sitting with the top girl. You have to believe in yourself though or no one eles will and they won't respect you.
Good luck honey!:D
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
I completey agree with the don't dance at firt in vip!!!!
I recently shared this with a coworker i've gotten great tips, and she loves it too!
it really does set the pace of the whole vip time. I never dance the first 2 songs, and when i do dance, i initiate. " I bet you're ready for a dance now, aren't you ;)" I've noticed when i initiate the dancing, i also choose when to stop very easily. I also have rules about how many songs I'll dance (4-5 per half hour, if he wants more, he HAS to buy them!!!) I know I'm worth it, in fact, I know I'm selling a deal, so it's easy to pull off.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
I bounce between the bouncy, fun, life-of-the-party and classy. I think the first one works because I'm friendly and such, but act very non-chalant like I don't really care. I don't need to impress anyone cause I know that I'm amazing. And I let them know that. I'll even tell them, in a nice, sweet, giggley way of course.
When I do the classy thing I'm more seductive. Still fun, but more businesslike. Different hustle. I explain what the club offers and sell. I don't let it sell itself. This works, but I have to be in the right mood. Classy and sophisticated. Not uptight but very proper for lack of a better term....... Can't think of the word that I want.
And I always walk around the floor like I'm on a runway. Everyone there is at the club to watch me parade around. If they're lucky they may get to hang out with me for a few. Treat it like a privelage for them, and it may just show.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
Would asking something like "would you like some company?" or "would you mind if i joined you?" before sitting down come across as over eager? What's a better method?
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
This topic totally reminds me of one of the biggest money-makers at our club. On the floor, she dresses like a total innocent schoolgirl, but inevitably, when she gets them into the VIP, they start grabbing because she looks so naive. Whenever they start to touch or get out of line in any way, she smacks the shit out of them. I mean, I can hear her slapping a guy across the face from over 30 feet away! She wears a leather thong underneath her schoolgirl uniform, and when they try to touch her, she'll smack them and say something like, "Alright, now you owe me 5 more dances for trying to touch me you dirty bastard!" The rest of the dancers kind of cringe at her technique, but I've got to say that I've never heard so many customers request her and I've never seen anyone do anything but submit to her demands.
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drewcifer
This topic totally reminds me of one of the biggest money-makers at our club. On the floor, she dresses like a total innocent schoolgirl, but inevitably, when she gets them into the VIP, they start grabbing because she looks so naive. Whenever they start to touch or get out of line in any way, she smacks the shit out of them. I mean, I can hear her slapping a guy across the face from over 30 feet away! She wears a leather thong underneath her schoolgirl uniform, and when they try to touch her, she'll smack them and say something like, "Alright, now you owe me 5 more dances for trying to touch me you dirty bastard!" The rest of the dancers kind of cringe at her technique, but I've got to say that I've never heard so many customers request her and I've never seen anyone do anything but submit to her demands.
That is so fucking awesome.}:D
Re: not appearing over-eager...advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kylie3183
And I always walk around the floor like I'm on a runway. Everyone there is at the club to watch me parade around. If they're lucky they may get to hang out with me for a few. Treat it like a privelage for them, and it may just show.
That is totally me. I like making heads turn when I'm walking to the dj booth because I'm either bouncing or shimmying around with a bigass smile on my face. Yay! I'll even dance while waiting for a water...