Re: Grad school questions
Intelligence has nothing to do with grades. I graduated with a respectable but not outstanding 3.25 when I got my BA, and went on to graduate with a 4.0 with my Master's. Most of my classmates in grad school were perfectly normal people who had to struggle and study just like everyone else.
When I finished with my BA, I didn't really know what I wanted to do or how to do it. The time I spent in grad school let me hone and refine what I'd learned as an undergrad, and I was ready for the real world after graduating (well, as ready as anyone ever is). I recommend grad school for those who are interested in it.
Re: Grad school questions
Perhaps things work differently in Canada, but here in the U.S. (and especially in Florida) average dumbasses get Master's degrees all the time. I'm guessing that you probably go to a fairly rigorous undergrad institution, as you seem to consider yourself below-average, when I think most others would consider you WAAAAY above-average intellectually.
Of course, compared to crazy freakin' prodigy geniuses you probably ARE below average. If this is the case, honesty about your own abilities is important, but I'd encourage you not to lose sight of the broader scope: namely, that you're still smarter than most people. I've been there: one of the (insert absurd number which I'm too embarassed to disclose) colleges I attended was a tiny, prestigious, incredibly rigorous school attended largely by shockingly brilliant, irritatingly sheltered children. Needless to say, I didn't fit in. I was comparatively stupid and much more worldly, and I only got frustrated as everything in the classroom sailed over my head and none of the kids I met could talk about jobs, travels, supporting oneself, living on one's own, having crazy fucking adventures, etc.
Anyway, the point of my personal anecdote is such. I wouldn't recommend immersing yourself in any kind of academic environment which is uncessarily competetive, or in which you don't feel comfortable, simply because there is such a huge variety of educational institutions out there. Of course, I also don't think you should sell yourself short and (a) give up on the idea of grad school entirely, or (b) apply to idiot schools/programs (they do exist, even on the graduate level). My best advice at this point is to talk to your professors/ advisors about the best places for you specifically, with your specific interests and strengths, to go to grad school. Once you have narrowed down your choices, you can talk to those particular institutions about your prospective career in academia, because they probably have a good idea of where their graduates end up and what kind of "weight" a degree from that institution has in the job market.
And heeeey, building wells in Africa. That's what I want to do. But I'm a little afraid of Africa, on account of the HIV. I'd really like to go to Micronesia. They have lovely vistas and poor infrastructure, I'm told. I'm not knocking Micronesia. I'm just saying there's probably some room there for an aspiring do-gooder like me; I can hope, anyway.
Re: Grad school questions
Well, Molly, what do you think you might wanna be when you grow up??
If you don't want to be a professor, it probably doesn't make sense to get a Ph.D. in philosophy. Does it?
I am also trying to decide whether I should continue my education after I finish my B.S. in Biology. In my field, it is often said that it's better to have a Master's than a Ph.D.--with an M.S., you are qualified for a lot of the applied-biology jobs that I think I'd be interested in doing, but at the Ph.D. level, there are far fewer positions available, and the competition becomes much more intense. Plus, you may be seen as overqualified for jobs that require an M.S.
So, I think it really depends on the kinds of jobs you want to be qualified for. Any ideas about that?
Re: Grad school questions
You can always get a masters in something else. You have a minor, don't you? You can also consider professional graduate degrees - journalism, law, MBA. Also keep in mind that you can get a masters and then just NOT get a PhD. It's allowed. You could also get a second BA, with a different major in a field that is less competitive - if you've finished your breadth requirements it's only another year or so.
If you are interested in a career in public interest, by all means pursue that. You don't have to physically dig wells I don't think.
World, oyster.
Re: Grad school questions
Re: Grad school questions
I actually thought grad school was easier than undergraduate school. But maybe that was because I was older. But there are certain non-academic hurdles that you will have to deal with.
My advice: when you plan your program, get it all in writing. I got cheated out of my second master's degree because the graduate advisor never wrote down and filed my program. Then he went to a different university, and when I went to schedule my orals, it went like this:
Me: I'm here to schedule my orals.
Graduate Advisor: Who are you?
After lengthy discussion, the GA decides to make a new program for me. He claims I am 12 credits short and that I never took the introductory courses.
Me: I took those courses when I got my first master's.
GA: Well, you have to take them over again.
Me: Why should I take Introduction to Research when I've alread written and defended one paper? And History and Philosophy of Education is not worth taking twice. It was of marginal value the first time. (Wrong thing to say, but I was mad.)
GA: Then you don't get to schedule orals and you don't get a second master's. (He was mad, too.)
So, I appealed to the Dean.
Dean: No, you don't have to take those introductory courses again.
Me: (thrilled) Oh, thank you!
Dean: But there is another problem. You are 12 credits short of the what is required.
Me: Oh, those are the 12 graduate credits I am transferring from the University of Utah.
Dean: Those credits are over five years old; you can't transfer them.
Me: They were not more than five years old when I started my program here.
Dean: But they are more than five years older now.
So, I marched downstairs to the undergraduate department and inquired whether there was time limit on the second bachelor's I had filed for years before and never taken. Seems there wasn't, so instead of a second master's, I got a Bachelor of Science Magna cum Laude.
Then, they spelled my name wrong in the commencement program. :(
So, get it all in writing, and keep a copy.
Also, find out who is in charge of coordinating theses and dissertations. In my case, it was this beaureaucrat in the library, the thesis coordinator. Seems that the style book the bookstore sold me when I took Introduction to Research was not the one they were using anymore.
Me: Then why are they still selling it?
Thesis Coordinator: Well, the book store had all these copies in stock, and they wouldn't order the new style books until they sold all the old ones.
So, find this thesis coordinator and make friends with her or him early on. This person will be more important to getting your paper accepted than your academic advisor, who may not know any better than you do what style book to use or what weight paper you must print it on.
If you can pull grades like you mentioned as an undergraduate, you can handle grad school. And, if you are passionate about philosophy, go ahead and get your PhD. Maybe you will work in another field, but you will be happy with what you learned. I know a guy who has PhDs in philosophy and nuclear physics, and he is very happy being the manager of a waterbed store. And probably thiking about what his major will be for his third PhD.
Good luck in grad school!
Re: Grad school questions
thanks everyone...I was just so frazzled yesterday. Less so today. I've decided to save for a volunteer trip to Kenya when I graduate next year. I think it'd be good for me...I'm so self-absorbed. Plus, I could tell whether or not I'd like to teach. Frankly, I have no idea what I want to do. There are so many things I find interesting...anyway. I appreciate the info.
Re: Grad school questions
Oooh, the trip to Kenya sounds great. I can't wait to do something like that. Would you mind PM'ing and telling me what organization you'd be going through?? I'm going into Env Science and when the time is here, I'm hoping to do some volunteer work in Africa dealing with water sourcing and filtration.....but I'm not really sure. I'm still investigating different orgs and programs.
Back to you, I've heard from several people that grad school was actually easier than undergrad. And by the way, don't sell yourself short!! There's no such thing as not being 'grad school smart'! My closest friend from grammar school was always a B-C student until college. She pulled her shit together, and started working harder for her grades. She was a Psych major at the time at a private college. She decided to get her masters in Forensic Psychology and is now in the middle of her doctorate. She came from a low-income family and she did this all on her own - NO ONE who knows her ever thought she could or would do it. So....my point is, you could make it happen if you want, it doesn't HAVE to be in Philosophy if you don't want it to be. I'm sure you could change it up a bit or segue (sp?) into something different. You'll be fine.
Re: Grad school questions
Quote:
The epistemology is still very remedial, and I know this is as far as it goes for an undergraduate degree. It's tough for me because I am so fascinated by some of these subjects and issues...I would love to go further with it, but it all comes back to the reality of the situation.
Yes, the real meat of any discipline lies in grad school. Grad school was a great time in my life and I enjoyed it thoroughly. That said, MA degrees can overqualify you for a lot of jobs, and PhDs are really only useful in academia. As the holder of two expensive degrees that I will probably never use in a professional capacity, I can still say it was worth the effort, but the adjustment in professional expectations after my grad degree was rather painful.
If you're going to do grad school in a liberal art, do it for the love of the art and not for the money.
Re: Grad school questions
I really enjoyed grad school too. I was a bit older and better disciplined, so was able to manage my time and get things done. You don't have to be a genius to go, and you will enjoy it more since its on a subject YOU choose, almost entirely.
Re: Grad school questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
teeth_of_the_hydra
Perhaps things work differently in Canada, but here in the U.S. (and especially in Florida) average dumbasses get Master's degrees all the time.
I'm an undergrad in Fla, where did you go to grad school? Or do you have any perceptions about the different grad schools in FL?
Re: Grad school questions
Well it certainly depends on what you want to do with your career...if you are seeking a position in teaching, then a Master's is almost a prerequisite
A doctorate, again if you are not interested in teaching, I find would only be useful if you were planning on writing on your chosen subject as a way to lend credibility to your work
Re: Grad school questions
Wait???? Five plus years and there is a slim hope of having a job! Whatever fun it is won't be as fun homeless and broke. My first concern would be what brings in a steady income of an acceptable level.
If philosophy is truly what stimulates you I would lean to a degree in public policy. That is still rather ethereal. I don't know what costs are involved with education in Canada but surely somebody is going to wnat a return on the investment.
I think a trip to Kenya would be fantastic. If you like camping of the primitive sort; I think you will have a fabulous time. If tents, sleeping bags, and digging a cat hole to poop in; is not your thing...... Could be rough. Find out from people who are there now, or just returned what things were like, and what equipment was needed or most important.
Re: Grad school questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mollyzmoon
I've decided to save for a volunteer trip to Kenya when I graduate next year. I think it'd be good for me...I'm so self-absorbed.
Be sure to check the political situation in Kenya and its neighbors before you go. My friend was in the Peace Corps back in the sixties, and went back to Sierra Leone to visit just when the civil war broke out. She and her friends were hidden literally underground for a month and had to be smuggled out of the country like the slaves on the Underground Railroad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kandie_kitten
Well it certainly depends on what you want to do with your career...if you are seeking a position in teaching, then a Master's is almost a prerequisite
I'm gonna disaagree with this. If you get a Master's in teaching, you make yourself more expensive to hire. Don't kid yourself that quality wins over saving money in most school districts.
It's better to get your Bachelor's and teaching certificate, THEN go back and get your Master's after you have a job. This also gives you some experience to bring to the graduate courses in education, and will give you a nice raise a few years down the line when you finish the graduate degree.
Re: Grad school questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UtahMike
I'm gonna disaagree with this. If you get a Master's in teaching, you make yourself more expensive to hire. Don't kid yourself that quality wins over saving money in most school districts.
It's better to get your Bachelor's and teaching certificate, THEN go back and get your Master's after you have a job. This also gives you some experience to bring to the graduate courses in education, and will give you a nice raise a few years down the line when you finish the graduate degree.
that's so true. i did 3 years as an early childhood education major before i decided i'd rather go to law school. i think it's best to get the job first, because if you dom and wait a few years, they might even pay for you to go back and get your masters.
Re: Grad school questions
Quote:
I'm gonna disaagree with this. If you get a Master's in teaching, you make yourself more expensive to hire. Don't kid yourself that quality wins over saving money in most school districts.
No, she's right; an MA/MS is a now requirement of many public school union contracts in many states.
Re: Grad school questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UtahMike
I'm gonna disaagree with this. If you get a Master's in teaching, you make yourself more expensive to hire. Don't kid yourself that quality wins over saving money in most school districts.
I think she meant teaching at the university level. I don't think Molly is planning on teaching 1st grade philosophy.
Re: Grad school questions
^awwww but wouldn't that be cute? heehee
Re: Grad school questions
Take time off to think about it.
When I got my first degree (English), I did what I was good at (and interested in), and struggled with the same issues...I was like "huh, now what? I don't wanna teach, and I'm not THAT good at literary analysis...I don't think I can justify further education in this field. Crap". Time off helped me figure out that I actually wanted to pursue a career in sciences- something I don't think I would have realized without a lot of introspection, since I never even took Biology in high school.
Regarding getting A's and not A+'s, you're in the arts- your grades are subjective to a degree. I hated that about the arts (and it's not much more objective in the sciences, actually)...hopefully it goes both ways for you; I personally have one prof that gives me an A+ for everything, and I know I don't aways deserve it, and that totally makes up for another who marks me down for sport.
Your GPA, from the sounds of it, is really good. Whether or not you think you're comparatively 'smart enough' for grad school- you're obviously book-smart enough to get in, probably to one of your top choice schools. So it really comes down to whether you have an actual interest in advancing your knowledge in the field, and if there's anything in particular you want to spend 2 years researching.
You're surely eligible for one of them government-sponsored MA scholarships (I'm going for NSERC, and I know there's a social-sciences equivalent)...getting one of those pretty much guarantees you your first choice school (because they don't have to lay out much money for you), so...I think you don't have too much to worry about, except whether you WANT to pursue your PhD in philosophy.
Re: Grad school questions
I just got my PhD couple of months ago after 5.5 years in grad school (2 for MS and 3.5 for PhD). The grad school experience greatly varies based on how hard your field is, how nice your adviser is, and which school you are in. So I think it wouldn't help you if I tell you more specific things. But grad students have also forums, where you may find people who work in the field you want to get a degree for: