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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
Bridgette
Actually I think that's a pretty good idea. Money is so hit or miss there, it would help if yall could discourage alot of the travellers from invading. Hitting them in the wallet is about the only way.
As for Phx, I'm not so sure a stripper petition is the way to get the license thing started. I'm thinking if word spread too much too soon it just might backfire. I'm picturing clubowners getting wind and trying to stamp it out before it starts, and/or too many girls fearing the worst and either refusing to support it or fighting against it. I think you might have to sneak it in to make it work. And frankly, I can't see any city council member looking at that kind of $ and saying no. Maybe I'm incredibly naive but I think they'd have to approve it. Of course, I think to really make it work you'd have to get it publicized AFTER the proposal is made, to get the general public saying "hell yeah, tax those nasty strippers!!!" ;D
Oh I also forgot to mention the illegals who are able to work here, with licenses, and it seems there's more of them since the license thing started. Clubs seem more lax about checking ID on newhires now, they just check for the license. As far as I know, you currently don't have to provide proof of right to work in this country to get a license to strip in Phoenix. So you get the license with just some ID, and then only show the license to the club, and you're suddenly "allowed" to work illegally in the clubs here. That sucks. We ought to be required to provide proof of legal status as well, just like in Vegas.
When I got my license I had to show proof of legal status. I am a permanent resident with the right to work and study but I am Brazilian and we always get asked anyways. The other day I was on the DMV and a lot of people weren't being asked for proof of legal status. I guess it is because a lot of people of Mexican decent work on those places and they let their people slip in to get a driver license being an illegal. I guess the same happens with the stripper license.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
brazilian
I guess it is because a lot of people of Mexican decent work on those places and they let their people slip in to get a driver license being an illegal. I guess the same happens with the stripper license.
I'm inclined to believe this. I know some of the foreign girls who dance here are doing so perfectly legally. But I noticed a jump in the number of native spanish-speakers in the dressing room not long after the license law took affect.....
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
Bridgette
What if the license fee increase made it so you didn't need to clubhop anymore??? Because that's the goal and the way I see it.
I don't necessarily believe that an extra license fee for each club will give me that much of an increase in earnings. If you could prove to me with numbers that this will actually work, or that club hopping is really that detrimental to your earnings, then I would stand behind you 100%.
I still think I would earn more picking and choosing my nights at various clubs, but I work best under those conditions. Maybe some dancers are happy being stuck at one club. But what happens when your manager tries to get you to have sex with him (or does any of the million other things that are in violation of respect and basic human dignity that they are so fond of trying to impose upon us), or the club gets raided or goes up in flames? I mean, there are other circumstances behind club hopping besides just being a wandering soul in search of the best market. When one club starts enacting some crazy rule or standard, I'd like the option to pick up my bag and leave without having to shell out several hundred just to have another job.
Again, you don't care. But you are one person. I'm just offering an opposing view because I know there are several GOOD dancers like myself who profit greatly from having a change of scenery.
I am all for your license increase, by the way. I would just be really hesitant to advocate staying at one club all the time. How do Atlanta dancers deal with that? What happens when you get licensed to work at one club and hate it in about two weeks?
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Blah, it seems like you are just a nay-sayer and that's it. Yeah I like switching clubs too, and I haaaaaaaaaaaaate being "stuck" in anything. But I see the way the clubhopping fucks up business around here, especially in summer, and I'll pay the price if it means cutting that shit down. Pay a little, gain alot.
There can be no proof with numbers that this will work; not possible to get numbers like that. It takes a little faith. If you could've seen what I saw the last few months you'd probably be agreeing with me wholeheartedly. I do know what I'm talking about; I'm not some twit who started this yesterday or washed-up old broad who's just pissed off about a little competition.
>>Edit to add: But let's just say for argument's sake that as a result of these things we see a decrease in girls in the clubs by 20%. And let's assume that the remaining girls will start making 20% more money. Seems reasonable, yes? So if you currently make, say $30k/yr as a stripper, a 20% increase would bring it up to $36k. That's an extra $6k/yr in your pocket - and that's a conservative number. Suddenly $300 or $600 or even $900 doesn't seem like such a big price to pay, does it? Shit, I'd pay $900 to make $6k all day long.
Hell, let's say we only make 10% more money. That's still $3k more per year for a $30k/yr stripper. Who wouldn't be willing to cough up $300 or $600 to make an extra $3k?
Remember I'm proposing these ideas for *myself* too. If *I* want to switch clubs then I'll just have to pay the price too. No sweat. But the price would mean a huge reduction in holiday and last-minute clubhoppers who really only serve to screw up business for the regular girls who work at a b or c club all the time. My club gets faaaaaaaaaarr too many chics who ONLY come around during slow times because they aren't making much at their regular clubs. I go in REGULARLY during slow times and see 10 or more new girls who NEVER work there, who just go there when it's slow. They don't work 2 or 3 clubs year-round, only when it's slow - they think that when business slows down it must be better at another club. HELLO! It's NOT. It's slow everywhere, so quit invading other clubs because you're just making it WORSE!!! This is the shit I want to cut down.
The girls who work 2 or 3 clubs year-round, well sorry, you'd have to pay. But at least your 2 or 3 clubs would suffer fewer influxes of "those" clubhoppers (and let's not forget the ones who NEVER dance except when they want some xmas money or something ::) ), so your business would be more protected and consistent too. Let's see - pay an extra $300/year in order to MAKE an extra $2-500/week (maybe more)? Yeah I'll do that!
Atlanta dancers "deal with it" by 1) realizing that they're making great money, alot more than they would elsewhere, 2) learning to thrive in whatever club they're in because there's money to be made in all of them, 3) not being spoiled little brats because THEY'RE MAKING GREAT MONEY. The horror stories of managers trying to fuck everyone and fucking with our money if we don't are mostly just stories. Yes I know it happens but it's NEVER happened to me so I have trouble believing it's that big an issue. Disliking the manager or DJ or whatever becomes way less of a problem when you're carrying more money home every night.
Finally, I don't care if some people don't agree with me. Something like this will NEVER have 100% support, even though it can and will benefit all of us. It requires some small sacrifices in order to gain a bigger benefit, but some people can never see past their own small issues to see the bigger picture and the bigger benefit it can provide not only to the group, but to THEM individually. So I say again. Whoever doesn't like it, could quit or work elsewhere. That's really the point.
And now I think the horse has been thoroughly beaten.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
I'm not just being a nay-sayer for the sake of having nothing better to argue about. This is a really interesting topic you brought up and yes, I agree there should be more control over the little gnats that fly in and out of the clubs offering extras or whatever else kind of shoddy service with no regard to your income. It bothers me too when I am dancing here in LA. Believe me, we get a ton of vagrants and casual strippers too and I would love to see something like that happen here also.
However, it would take a lot more than faith for me to give up the system I am comfortable with. Would I try it if I could go back to dancing the way I was if I didn't like it? Yes, of course. But that's not possible once you start enforcing laws and fees. You also said you hate being "stuck" in anything, so I know you can see where I'm coming from. I also see your perspective, but the whole thought of giving up that freedom scares me just on the hope that I might be making 20% more. The truth is that there is no guarantee that you'd make that much more if you eliminated club hopping...or any more money for that matter.
I DO think you will make more if you get the city license fee raised though. I just don't know if you are losing 10-20% by dancers club hopping. If that were PROBABLE then yes, I would totally agree with you.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
We are probably not losing 10 or 20% of our income to clubhoppers. I'd say we are probably losing around 15-20% to travellers, fly-by-night strippers, holiday girls, wannabes and clubhoppers combined. But the clubhopping reeeeeaaallly makes things hard when girls start working 2 clubs in the same DAY at the end of the month in July because the dumb bitches couldn't think past their noses and pay the damn rent the week before ::) Just as one example.
I do believe we are losing a significant % (significant enough to justify the per-club licensing expense) of our income in summer due to clubhoppers, and that's the time we can afford it least. If you haven't experienced the droughts we experience here in summer, you can't possibly understand. Money gets really short, resentment grows, attitudes sour, tempers flare, and the vibe gets all around shitty. The girls who work regular clubs year-round HATE seeing the clubhoppers start invading because they just make things worse all around.
I don't think anyone has a problem with the girls who work 2-3 clubs year-round but unfortunately in this city those girls are way in the minority of clubhoppers. Most of them stay at their "home" clubs most the year and only bounce around when business gets slow - exactly the worst time to do it. In the end I think we'd all prefer to spend a little extra money to keep them from doing that so much, because it would give us piece of mind and could very easily mean the difference between going home with no money or turning a little profit on the worst days. It's extremely disheartening to go in and work for nothing or next to nothing, and when we have to deal with that (often largely thanks to too many clubhopping girls) it is hard to keep your attitude from spiraling out of control, which only makes it even harder to make money. I'm speaking more in a general sense now, because when I go to work I manage to make money no matter what. Usually less in summer but still enough. But I see way too many girls struggling to scrape by when they shouldn't have to.
Personally, I think an extra license fee to work 2 clubs year-round isn't such a bad deal, if it means keeping the fly-by-nighters from flying so much. It's not like you'd have to pay it more than once per year. And more importantly, Phoenix is not like LA or Vegas - there is fairly consistent money here most the time, if girls would just take their asses to work and WORK on a consistent basis (and if we could weed out some of the extra girls). We don't need to clubhop here.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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We don't need to clubhop here.
Ah. Perhaps you don't. I feel as though I do here in LA to maximize my earnings. I had no idea it wasn't like that in other parts of the country. I've never worked in Phx. but I do know what slow clubs are all about. I know about the viciousness, sour attitude and desperation. OMG do I know. If that could be reduced by getting rid of Flotsam and Jetsam, then hell yes, I'll pay $600 a year. It would probably mean having a better solidarity among the good dancers too, as we could hopefully all work together to keep them out and keep prices up. I worked in ONE club where the girls were like a family. Not surprisingly, it wasn't a high hustle club. The rest of the clubs I've been in basically have a "go fuck yourself" mentality when it comes to sticking together.
Perhaps there needs to be some better training for dancers too. I mean, with that licensing fee could come a well-written sales and protocol booklet of sorts that would help girls look and do their best - a manual if you will. Maybe the clubs can start distributing them or at least training their dancers better. There should totally be a sales training course you have to complete to get the license. I know that's a SUPER long shot, but we're not sure if any of this other stuff will happen either. If you want to start getting more structured, there should be better business training. Those girls who come in the very last few days of the month to pay their rent do not only have drug problems or whatever...I'm sure a lot of that is just a lack of financial education. Just a thought.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Bridgette,
You're probably saying the best and smarted things to reform our industry back to the way of the hard workers and class and quality. I love your theories and calculations.
I just wish the city itself would listen. :/
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
Richard_Head
-any letter to the city council is probably not a good idea, the mayor and the city council have not proven to be fans of strip clubs in the past and I'm guessing you'd run the chance of this move backfiring on you in some way.
To me, this is a valid concern. Sometimes it's better to leave sleeping dogs lie when it comes to involving government. And I don't say that out of some theoretical devotion to libertarianism. I say that because sometimes if you give city officials an idea, they may go farther with it than you hoped. It's not like, in the general public's eyes, strippers are a respectable lobbying force who can exert influence to ensure the nuances of such legislation are crafted precisely to be what's best for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bridgette
This would result in a revenue increase of $438,000 per year - over 1000% increase in annual revenue. I'm thinking our city council members would vote for that allllllllll day long, and I betcha it would take more wheel-greasing than the clubs are willing to cough up to get some NOs on that.
Well, that is an appealing number, even at half that calculation. And since it's not directly assessed against the clubs -- after all, it's the dancers who get to shell out for it -- the owners might not see it as anything they care about. They might even be thinking, better for the city to hit the dancers than come down directly on the clubs. And if it impacts dancers only when their current licenses expire, it's going to be a gradual transition anyway.
On the other hand, I will point out that there's a difference between the advantages to a politican of raising fees for city coffers and the advantages of taking a position on an issue that puts money into his own pocket. Yeah, a yes vote might mean $438,000 more for the city, but a no vote could mean a few thousand for the politician's personal benefit, er, I mean campaign fund. If you tack some sort of extra club regulation on this, I know you're going to stir the hornets from their nest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bridgette
Well, my first thought is to write an anonymous letter to a few city council members regarding the license fee increase. I think an effective letter would include facts and examples from (an)other area(s) where expensive licensing works for the city, as well as projections for increased revenue using current license numbers.
I'm probably engaging in wishful thinking but it would be nice if you had a "white knight" on the council and let him/her propose this like it's their own idea, so that their incentive is to get credit for improving the city's finances without any pain to the average taxpayer. A white knight who's actually sympathetic to the real reason behind this proposal, could plausibly characterize it in terms that would gain public support, and wouldn't load it up like a Christmas tree with unwanted (no pun intended) extras. Or perhaps someone who's connected who could connect with someone on the council to pitch the idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bridgette
There have been lobbies supported by those in some of those professions to create, enforce and restrict licensing because it helps them keep competition down and maintain their perceived value. We really aren't much different, if at all. It can work for us too.
Well yeah, but again, we're not respectable, so the average politician can't touch our causes without committing political suicide. As has already been said, it really has to be pitched as benefiting Mr. and Mrs. Uptight ... er I mean Upright Citizen to have a chance of getting anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bridgette
Sorry this is so long.
No way. I'm all warm and fuzzy about the way you think business. The wheels turning in your head are some of your most sensuous motions. I'm rooting for you. :thumbsup:
-Ev
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
evan_essence
Well yeah, but again, we're not respectable, so the average politician can't touch our causes without committing political suicide. As has already been said, it really has to be pitched as benefiting Mr. and Mrs. Uptight ... er I mean Upright Citizen to have a chance of getting anywhere.
Oh no nonononono! I KNOW that causing a stripper ruckus will more likely backfire on us, much like it did in CA. Which is why I was thinking of the anonymous letter. I was thinking perhaps if I/we could find which councilmember proposed the stripper licensing law in Phx in the first place, that might be a good place to start. It might be even better if that person were reading this thread LOL! I totally agree that if we try "lobbying" or starting a movement in the traditional sense the results will NOT be nice for us, so we have to do it quietly or not at all.
I was just using other licensed professions as examples of how they've often used this kind of regulation to control supply and maintain their perceived value. Just saying we could do the same, but much like those other professions, it would have to be sold to Joe Public on how it will "protect and serve" Mr/Ms Public. Projecting heavy city revenue increases to help pay for things like the new light-rail, roads, schools and such sounds to me like a great way to sell it - Mr/Ms Public get to benefit and don't have to pay for it :O But that part's the politicians' job - my/our job is just to convince the politician(s) that it's a good idea. Seems fairly easy to me - more money for the city, Joe Public loves that, more votes for politician, and all is right with the world ;D
And, if my business-thinking is my most sensuous motion then honey, you'd die of orgasm many times over if you hung out with me. Fiance says I think it too much HA ;D
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
If the city were to do something like you're saying B, Scottsdale would be fucked, completely flooded by all the girls who don't want to pay that!
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
Bridgette
Fiance says I think it too much HA ;D
Ladies and gentlemen: we have the understatement of the year!!!;D
You know I'm just joking with you Bridgette...give 'em hell girl. If anyone can bring around some stripper reform using sheer ballsiness, it'd be you.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
LatinaRose
If the city were to do something like you're saying B, Scottsdale would be fucked, completely flooded by all the girls who don't want to pay that!
Then let Snottsdale do it too. I don't and won't ever dance there, so I don't care either way. But I'm betting if Phx does it, Snottsdale wouldn't be far behind because they'd want in on the money train too ;)
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
DylanAngel
Ladies and gentlemen: we have the understatement of the year!!!;D
:-[
This thing says I have to type 5 characters to post. Here's more than that.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bridgette
:-[
This thing says I have to type 5 characters to post. Here's more than that.
Oh Bridgette, don't be embarrassed!!! :'(
It was truly a testament to the fact that your brains are even bigger than your boobs!:D
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Hey now, I'm just a giant set of tits!!! Remember that :P
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Well after wading through this thread, and all of the optimism about city politicians wanting to jump on a higher fee bandwagon to raise more money, consider the law of unintended consequences....
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4790832.html
Aretha Franklin was right - THINK.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
"Why are not the excessive earnings of women strippers targeted for this slush fund?"
"Women want it both ways, they want to take off their clothes for money, make obscene
amounts of money doing this "job""
I love how this guy thinks dancer's money is "excessive" and "obscene"! If he ever had to do this job, he'd see we were being paid too little to deal with assholes like him!
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
azdd
Well after wading through this thread, and all of the optimism about city politicians wanting to jump on a higher fee bandwagon to raise more money, consider the law of unintended consequences....
Aretha Franklin was right - THINK.
You're just proving that it'll be easy to get City Council to raise our license fee. Which is what we need.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Hey B, we dancers at the place that misses you have an understanding to get $20 or more/song. The revolution will not be televised.
It is against the rules to ask for more. As you know, experienced strippers got game and we find ways to get it without a direct demand.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Yeah -- one of your mgrs let it be known to one dancer that he had a reg complain . . . .it's fairly fucked that it's against the rules to charge more, but aren't you allowed to offer the "option" of a $20 dance? The option being that it won't suck?
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
Susan Wayward
Yeah -- one of your mgrs let it be known to one dancer that he had a reg complain . . . .it's fairly fucked that it's against the rules to charge more, but aren't you allowed to offer the "option" of a $20 dance? The option being that it won't suck?
Happy strippers ---> Great dances!
There is one manager in particular who always sides with customers.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
um, the five dollar tax directly hits clubowners (since it is applied to the cover charge, forcing all clubs in tx to have a mandatory cover charge they cannot get a penny of) and is thus not remotely the kind of fee increase you want cities to levy on titty bars.
even levying higher housefees on the girls won't recover the customer drink sales lost because a percentage of guys will not come in if it's not free anymore or as cheap as they'd like.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
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Originally Posted by
Kaylinn
Maybe we can get the fee's raised in vegas to....decrease the # of dancers comming in here for convention season...maybe local dancers pay $200 but out of town dancer have to pay $500 or something.....
I just wanted to add to this.^
My university charges 3 times more for out of state attendees than local kids, so I think the same could certainly be done with dancer licenses.
The license in Phoenix is $21? That's a joke. For a yearly license to perform you should pay more than a cheap house fee.
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Re: That bitch is charging too much for dances!! The NERVE!!!
Anyone in the SC industry who thinks their local government would be willing to help them enact change for their benefit needs to read the parable about carrying a scorpion across the river...like over and over until it sinks into their brain.
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html
http://www.snopes.com/critters/malice/scorpion.htm
Enough said.