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Less than desirable customers
A friend and I are having a disagreement over his attraction to strippers (and their attraction to him).
This is a 54 year old man who frequents one strip club in particular on a regular basis...once to twice a week but back in the fall was going there roughly 6 nights out of 7. He is far from wealthy but has no problem spending every cent he makes there.
Going to try and give you a visual. He is 5'3" and probably 115 lbs. He is covered in tattoos and has no bottom teeth. His upper teeth are dentures and he rarely brushes them and even if he did he always smells of beer and tobacco. He wears a baseball cap to cover his balding head and what hair he has is grown long and drawn into a scraggly ponytail. His nose hair is always in desperate need of a trim. However despite his small body, he is well endowed and it would be obvious to anyone dancing for him.
He can be rather charming in a faux-insulting kind of way. He would always call the girls "ladies" and treat them with respect. If touching were allowed he would touch, but wouldn't cross any boundaries. He has great respect for dancers.
He came to me last week and confided that he had a couple of "friends" at the club...dancers of course. I believe that if the girls are spending time with him it is not out of friendship but because he is willing to spend all his money on them. He would in no way be attractive to anyone in their 20s or 30s.
Do you girls ever feel guilty striking up fake friendships with regulars who are obviously addicted to the strip clubs? He is an alcoholic with a wonderful girlfriend but he will lose her if she discovers where he goes every night. I am trying to make him see that the attraction is a one-way street but he stubbornly refuses to see that his "friends" are only spending time with him because he pays them to.
I've been reading the posts on this board and everything I read tells me it's all about the money from the strippers' view. How do you feel about this type of customer? Have you experienced this and if so do you ever try to gently disengage? Can you be totally disgusted by a customer yet perform well in spite of it?
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Re: Less than desirable customers
Quote:
Originally Posted by yawanna;1105719
This is a 54 year old man who frequents one strip club in particular on a regular basis...once to twice a week but back in the fall was going there roughly 6 nights out of 7. [B
He is far from wealthy but has no problem spending every cent he makes there.[/B]
How do you know how much he makes, let alone how much he spends..Men come into stripclubs for a variety of reasons 1) some for relaxation/enjoyment 2) to fill a void in their lives 3) they just need companionship.
Even though your friend comes into the club often, that doesn't mean he is spending as much as he does. If I did meet someone who I personally felt had a problem, then I would inform them that I've taken notice BUT this is obviously not the case since you have already admitted that his girlfriend does not have any idea of what he's doing. So obviously, he is still able to come home, and pay the bills as well as have some "fun money" to play with.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
There are guys who come in very frequently, spend little amounts of money here and there on any girls who talk to them. When they do this for long enough, they become like a fixture. They are reliable in that way, and the girls know this. Some of them grow on us, some make our skin crawl. If he cuts off the money, the attention will peter off once the girls get catch on. Some girls will still be nice to him, some may actually like him, but I guarentee you that they will not go out of their way to talk to him if he's not tipping anymore. It is a job after all.
I doubt very much if you'll be able to get through to him. Hell, if it makes him happy, let him have his fun.
And yes, we can be totally disgusted by someone and still smile and dance well for them. We kiss ass for a living and we've become very good at it.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
Some girls have no conscience. They will take advantage of men and not even think twice about it. I don't know how they do it and look themselves in the mirror, but there are people like that in every sales job.
Personally, I can't hang with a guy who seems to be spending more than he can afford. Yes, I'll do dances for him and play along, but I will not pretend to be his friend to con him out of money. It wouldn't feel right to me. I don't generally pretend to be friends with regulars. They know that our relationship begins and ends right there in the club.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
yawanna
I've been reading the posts on this board and everything I read tells me it's all about the money from the strippers' view. How do you feel about this type of customer? Have you experienced this and if so do you ever try to gently disengage? Can you be totally disgusted by a customer yet perform well in spite of it?
umm...just to be clear, stripping is a job for the vast majoority of girls who do it. in other words, we show up with the intention, desire or need to earn money. if we have fun in the process then that's great, but the primary goal is to leave at the end of a shift with money in hand. i believe this is the goal for most people when they go to their jobs.
to answer your questions: i often feel sad for customers who i sense have developed a false sense of belonging/friendship with me. that said, there are some customers who i truly feel a sense of affection for. they are not my friends, but my interest in their well being is genuine.
it's not my place to make presumptions about customer's financial situation. appearances can be deceiving. anyway, they are adults and, if they want to spend money on me, that is their decision. i fully support it. i will never cheat customers out of their money though. they get exactly what they are told they will get for the money they spend and i won't charge them for fabricated services that they are too drunk to realize never happened.
and yes, i can perform quite well for men who disgust me. granted, there are different forms of disgust. poor personal hygiene does make it more difficult to perform well and those customers do get a less intimate dance, but a very good one none the less. customers whose personalites i find disgusting are often incredibly easy to perform well for. i get a great deal of pleasure out of taking their money and i like to take as much of it as i possibly can.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
^^ I agree, there's being nice and friendly and there's being manipulative. I wouldn't feel right taking a guy's whole paycheck either. Heck I knew a girl who wrapped a guy around her finger and took his whole inheritance over a course of 3 months. Yes, he was stupid for spending it like that, but the way she manipulated him and led him on was disgusting and wrong.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
cinammonkisses
How do you know how much he makes, let alone how much he spends..Men come into stripclubs for a variety of reasons 1) some for relaxation/enjoyment 2) to fill a void in their lives 3) they just need companionship.
Even though your friend comes into the club often, that doesn't mean he is spending as much as he does. If I did meet someone who I personally felt had a problem, then I would inform them that I've taken notice BUT this is obviously not the case since you have already admitted that his girlfriend does not have any idea of what he's doing. So obviously, he is still able to come home, and pay the bills as well as have some "fun money" to play with.
Well, he is an alcoholic who receives a disability pension. His girlfriend works to support the two of them. She thinks he spends all his money on booze although she has questioned hundreds of dollars withdrawn from ATM machines at one time. She suspects he has a gambling problem and I am debating whether or not to tell her that he spends his time and money on the strippers.
I really feel sorry for him because he seems to be caught up in fantasy instead of reality and I am afraid he is becoming a laughing stock at this club.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
Pan Dah
Two very wise sisters named Abigail Van Buren and Ann Landers used to write newspaper columns giving advice on all sorts of personal issues. They both made frequent use of a catch phrase which perfectly describes your involvement here.
MYOB
:)
Well "Pan Dah"
It became "my business" when he brought me into it by telling me about his "friends" who just happen to be strippers. My advice to him was to ask one of his lady friends to lunch...her treat! And see how quickly his "friends" ride off into the sunset without him. Because after all, money can buy a boner but money can't buy love.
I thought I might get some constructive feedback and I thank those that contributed in an intelligent and thoughtful manner. After all, I was asking the LADIES their opinion of certain customers.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pan Dah
MYOB :)
:yes:
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Re: Less than desirable customers
Couple things I just wanted to say.
It sounds like you've already talked to him about this and if you have, then there's nothing else you can really do but tell his girlfriend, but I wouldn't tell his girlfriend if the only money he is spending is his. If he's spending soooo much money that he's beginning to spend hers too, then I think the girlfriend deserves to know. On the other hand, you risk losing a friend and you risk breaking up their relationship, so that would be something you'd have to be prepare to live with.
Honestly, I'm kinda in a similar situation, just not as drastic. I have this delusion that my ATF and I are friends also, obviously we haven't met OTC and deep down I know it's fake, but I still go see her anyway. I guess I still go cause I like her even if she is just hustling me. Maybe this is the case with your friend.
Overall though, I think the best thing to do would be to just leave it alone and let him learn the hard way (at least you tried), but I can see your dilemma since an innocent girlfriend is involved also.
PS. I doubt anyone would say yes if you offered for THEM to treat you to lunch, unless of course you're a hott dancer.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
georgiapeach
umm...just to be clear, stripping is a job for the vast majoority of girls who do it. in other words, we show up with the intention, desire or need to earn money. if we have fun in the process then that's great, but the primary goal is to leave at the end of a shift with money in hand. i believe this is the goal for most people when they go to their jobs.
Yes this is well said.
It is none of your business what your friend does with his money or how he spends his time.
Secondly there is no point outlining how physically unattractive you think he is. If he looked like brad pitt I personally still wouldnt care. All customers are created equal as far as I am concerned. Their looks do not matter to me. What matters is that he sounds like a respectful gentlemen.
I have told a great customer of mine to slow down on the spending. Yes it's a job and its great to make awesome money. But this customer is 24 and spent $500 every time he saw me. I thought he was wealthy but I found out he was blowing his entire weeks pay on me and I told him that was silly.
Thirdly, it seems strange to me that this man has a girlfriend. That part of your post surprised me. Most men who come in that regularly are lonely and dont have anyone. Do they have a solid relationship? I wonder what he is not getting out of his relationship that he needs to visit strip clubs that often.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
Those of you who read my previous thread know that I went to my local SC last week for my first time ever and being completely new to the experience, I had mixed feelings on this issue as well.
I have a fairly addictive nature--anything that can possibly be addictive I will try once and have to fight the urge to continue with it for weeks after. I am finding that this may be the case with the strip club...
While I havent been back there since, I am finding myself even now typing this at 2:30 in the morning knowing very well where I could be. Anyways, this is not what I am trying to get to. I am simply emphasizing how an ordinary person can get drawn to the service that you ladies provide--and possibly suffer financially.
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Originally Posted by
jaizaine
I have told a great customer of mine to slow down on the spending. Yes it's a job and its great to make awesome money. But this customer is 24 and spent $500 every time he saw me. I thought he was wealthy but I found out he was blowing his entire weeks pay on me and I told him that was silly.
After reading this thread, I feel better knowing that, for the most part, dancers work with a bit of conscience and at least consider the situation of their customers. It is easy to stereotype dancers into being evil manipulators but to do so is really not fair because, after all, their job is to make money and we know this very well going into it.
That said, I wish to express my gratitude for every dancer reading this who keeps this in mind while working. I am all for you girls making as much money as possible out of customers--but holding yourselves with dignity knowing that you don't unfairly manipulate customers into blowing their entire savings and lives, really, should be a goal.
I would disagree with one thing, however, that was mentioned by jaizaine...
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Originally Posted by
jaizaine
It is none of your business what your friend does with his money or how he spends his time.
I think it is just the opposite if that friend can perhaps be in trouble. For instance, if my friend was spending all his or her money on drugs and they are throwing their life down the drain, its the friends responsibility to step in and indeed it DOES become their business.
If a friend is spending a lot of money but not necessarily in a way that it is a detriment to his life, then you are right, it isn't your business. If, like yawanna here, you believe your friend is addicted to the strip club and is at risk financially or whatnot, a good friend would make it thier business.
I agree, however, that how a customer potentially destroys themselves financially is their problem, and the responsibility lies on them and not the dancers. I know that if I go back anytime soon, I may become a "regular" and I'm not quite ready for that. I am making the effort to moderate myself with this and exploring these forums is making it easier to clear through the clutter and gain a broader picture.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Can you be totally disgusted by a customer yet perform well in spite of it?
Happens to me all the time. ;)
If the dude doesn't go into the unrealistic environment of the SC with realistic expectations, any misnomers or misconceptions or misinterpretations of dancers and their behavior is completely on him. There's not a damn thing wrong with dancers using SS to full effect; it's irresponsible for them not to use SS. If he can't handle the reality of SCs and dancers, he has no business going to them.
Moreover, it doesn't sound like your concern anyway, though friends don't let friends wear combover ponytails...
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Re: Less than desirable customers
iF he needs help..HE needs to go get it. A bar will not stop serving someone they think is an alcoholic, a drug dealer will not stop selling to an addict. McDonalds will not stop selling to the 400 pound guy. Why would they? Those people are money in the bank for them.
WHile i feel for guys who have issues...and I wouldnt manipulate them...if they offered their money(tips) or asked for dances...I wouldnt turn them down and point them to the nearest social services office either. Thats not my responsibiliy.
If he is there that often..he probably does have friends there. Friends that are friends INSIDE the club. I consider several of my regs friends...but only in the club.
Now..the girlfriend hasnt figured this out yet???? And she ok with knowing her alcoholic boyfriend is spending all his cash on booze while she pays the bills?? Sounds like she has accepted the situation. ANd whether he gets his booze at the bar on the corner, or at the club....not a whole lot of differance.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
I'm surprised no one's said this yet, but your "friend" is a grown man. He may be an alcoholic, but he is the one who is choosing to drink. He may be blowing all his money on strippers, but he is the one who is CHOOSING to do that. I'm sure you spend a lot of money on things you enjoy, and sometimes when you can't really afford it. This is no different. If he came into my club, I would happily spend time with him and dance for him as long as he was willing to spend. His girlfriend and his finances have nothing whatsoever to do with me; he is in MY place of business as a paying customer, and my job is to sell my time and services for as much as I can get. If I ran a car dealership, you wouldn't expect me to feel guilty for selling the most expensive cars I could to anyone who was willing to sign up for the financing.
As for the girlfriend, she is working to support the aforementioned ugly alcoholic as he spends all her money on what she thinks is a gambling problem. I'm not sure why strippers would be the dealbreaker there.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
[quote=yawanna;1105719]
Do you girls ever feel guilty striking up fake friendships with regulars who are obviously addicted to the strip clubs? He is an alcoholic with a wonderful girlfriend but he will lose her if she discovers where he goes every night.
In one word: NO. I do NOT feel guilty, ever, about someone else's choices.
You are confusing HIS free will with someone else's (stripper). I am an alcoholic, too, with 3 years sober. So that's not an excuse. No offense meant, but I think 'your friend" needs to take personal responsibility for his actions, and you need to stay out of it.
ETA:In my extremely humble opinion, the "wonderful girlfriend" who knows he goes out every night but doesn't know where?.... Anyone in a relationship with an active alcoholic knows, to some extent, what goes on. If she doesn't know it's the titty bar, she most likely knows it's the bar, at least. And it's her business too. She sounds like an enabler, and it might even do him some good to lose her!
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
cameron_keys
A bar will not stop serving someone they think is an alcoholic,
Now..the girlfriend hasnt figured this out yet???? And she ok with knowing her alcoholic boyfriend is spending all his cash on booze while she pays the bills?? Sounds like she has accepted the situation. ANd whether he gets his booze at the bar on the corner, or at the club....not a whole lot of differance.
Hmmm, I don't know where the rest of you live but when an alcoholic (or any other customer) gets too drunk, the bars are obligated by law to stop serving them.
In our city the clubs are nude. Touching is not only allowed but expected. Extras are offered and the girls who don't offer them do not make the money here so they stay away. Therefore our clubs are little more than brothels. A lot of the girls are crack whores (and I hate to use the term but it applies). The club is regularly raided for drugs, and dancers as well as bouncers have been arrested. It is not an upper class establishment. I have no idea why it is still open.
The majority of the women population have no idea what goes on behind those doors. His girlfriend would be horrified to think he had been touching and had been touched (or more). Protection is not always expected or required. Can I say these girls (or the men who frequent them) are spreading diseases? No, but I wouldn't want to bet against it. I know there are many levels of class or no class in the clubs and this is a definite hole in the ground.
His girlfriend has been through a lot with him and I feel she doesn't deserve to receive a little "present" due to his drunken indiscretions. You all make valid points and I wish I could talk some sense into him but his southern brain seems to take over when he drinks. After reading the post by drdaredevil I am beginning to realize my friend is addicted to the sexual fantasy and tries to buy his self-esteem in the club from girls who really care nothing about him instead of looking around him and opening his eyes to the positives in his life. And I am feeling incredibly sad thinking about all this.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
Casual Observer
Happens to me all the time. ;)
If the dude doesn't go into the unrealistic environment of the SC with realistic expectations, any misnomers or misconceptions or misinterpretations of dancers and their behavior is completely on him. There's not a damn thing wrong with dancers using SS to full effect; it's irresponsible for them not to use SS. If he can't handle the reality of SCs and dancers, he has no business going to them.
Amen! Maybe I'm totally naive but I work under the assumption that men come in knowing that they must pay for my time. Do people go into a restaurant and makes friends with their favorite waitress, then expect free food? No. We upsell, waiters upsell, all salespeople upsell. I assume that if a man is giving me money, that he has it to give. I don't get involved in custies financial concerns anymore than I let them get involved with mine. I don't ask where that $30 for the lapdance came from. Think of how ridiculous it would be if a guy wanted a VIP and we asked "now, is this money from your paycheck or did your girlfriend give it to you?" It's not the dancers' fault for taking the money. It's the girlfriend's fault for being a co-dependant enabler and allowing his behavior, be it drinking or overspending, to go on.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
yawanna
In our city the clubs are nude. Touching is not only allowed but expected. Extras are offered and the girls who don't offer them do not make the money here so they stay away. Therefore our clubs are little more than brothels. A lot of the girls are crack whores (and I hate to use the term but it applies). The club is regularly raided for drugs, and dancers as well as bouncers have been arrested. It is not an upper class establishment. I have no idea why it is still open.
The majority of the women population have no idea what goes on behind those doors. His girlfriend would be horrified to think he had been touching and had been touched (or more). Protection is not always expected or required. Can I say these girls (or the men who frequent them) are spreading diseases? No, but I wouldn't want to bet against it. I know there are many levels of class or no class in the clubs and this is a definite hole in the ground.
how exactly have you gathered this information? i mean, have you worked at these clubs? (or is it just one club? it's hard to tell which from what you've written) have you been a frequent customer? i'm just a bit curious...
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Re: Less than desirable customers
I can't imagine why it matters HOW I know, but believe me, I DO know.
There are only 2 clubs within 60 miles of our city. I do not nor will I ever work in them. However, I do know some dancers and customers (my brother included) who have filled me in on what goes on there. My friend has been to both clubs but prefers the one that he can walk to. They are both equally bad but I am strictly speaking about the one in particular.
The drug busts there are a matter of public record as the stories are published in our local newspaper. Another reason for me to want to have nothing to do with them.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
yawanna
Hmmm, I don't know where the rest of you live but when an alcoholic (or any other customer) gets too drunk, the bars are obligated by law to stop serving them.
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When he gets TOO drunk. But they will still serve him until that time. They will not refuse to serve him because he is an alcoholic
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Re: Less than desirable customers
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Originally Posted by
yawanna
Another reason for me to want to have nothing to do with them.
THEN DON'T.
This is not your problem. You are making it into your problem.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
What kind of friend are you that would describe your friend in such an unbecoming manner? He has no teeth, reeks like booze etc? You wouldn't catch me saying that about anybody I'm friends with.
Also, nobody makes him go to that club. The girls are doing their job!! If he had a gambling problem, would you blame the dealers?
Furthermore those girls are probably the nicest people he has in his life!! I mean, if his friends all talk about him how you do! And that's not accurate that these girls don't care about him. We're human beings not heartless robots, in case you were not aware. I care about my customers.... I do care about what happens to them, thank you.
If you've never been to the club, I think it's shitty to imply that the girls there are disease infested whores.
Really, you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Re: Less than desirable customers
Actually I think it's pretty cool that a guy as gnarly as your friend would have the courage to not only go to a strip club but then be able to surround himself with hot strippers and have a good time. You should be proud of him rather than coming here trying to work up the courage to nuke his fun by asking for the dancers to validate you. Anyway, it sounds like he's probably on his last leg, healthwise, so the "problem" will likely fix itself soon enough.
Unless his girlfriend is your mom or sister or some other close relative that you care for, I think you should just let it be.
Oh, btw, this section is for customers to ask strippers questions. You know, sort of in the theme of the poster being a customer and all. You obviously aren't a customer so consider the fact that this thread is still open as sort of special dispensation. I mean, you don't have to genuflect or cross youself or anything but, still, keep it in mind.
FBR
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Re: Less than desirable customers
I know you asked for dancer specific, but I really want to point some things out. Hope I'm not coming across as a dick, if I do though, no big.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yawanna
This is a 54 year old man who frequents one strip club in particular on a regular basis...once to twice a week but back in the fall was going there roughly 6 nights out of 7. He is far from wealthy but has no problem spending every cent he makes there.
Going to try and give you a visual. He is 5'3" and probably 115 lbs. He is covered in tattoos and has no bottom teeth. His upper teeth are dentures and he rarely brushes them and even if he did he always smells of beer and tobacco. He wears a baseball cap to cover his balding head and what hair he has is grown long and drawn into a scraggly ponytail. His nose hair is always in desperate need of a trim. However despite his small body, he is well endowed and it would be obvious to anyone dancing for him.
He can be rather charming in a faux-insulting kind of way. He would always call the girls "ladies" and treat them with respect. If touching were allowed he would touch, but wouldn't cross any boundaries. He has great respect for dancers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yawanna
Well, he is an alcoholic who receives a disability pension. His girlfriend works to support the two of them. She thinks he spends all his money on booze although she has questioned hundreds of dollars withdrawn from ATM machines at one time. She suspects he has a gambling problem and I am debating whether or not to tell her that he spends his time and money on the strippers.
I really feel sorry for him because he seems to be caught up in fantasy instead of reality and I am afraid he is becoming a laughing stock at this club.
Firstly, I am curious, do you even LIKE this guy? I mean, my enemies don't describe me this bad. :-X and secondly, what is the basis of your concern? His self-esteem? His mistreating of his girlfriend's money? His lack-of-listening? His alcoholism? No offense, just curious, cause REALLY it comes across as jealousy. (May not be it, but it DOES sound like you're friends with him cause you think you're in the same boat and you're NOT getting these reactions out of these women, therefor you're trying to dissect why) Just being objective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yawanna
It became "my business" when he brought me into it by telling me about his "friends" who just happen to be strippers. My advice to him was to ask one of his lady friends to lunch...her treat! And see how quickly his "friends" ride off into the sunset without him.
If any of my friends ever called me up to hang out on MY DIME (male or female) I'd ride off into the sunset. The ONLY person I would accept that from is one who has a He pays then I pay mentality.
If the FOLLOWING is your purpose:
Quote:
I am trying to make him see that the attraction is a one-way street but he stubbornly refuses to see that his "friends" are only spending time with him because he pays them to.
Then you've spoken to him of it, ALL YOU CAN DO is back off and let him come to you if he thinks he needs help. Only then will he be willing to listen to anything you have to say constructively.
He's a big boy, if you think he is out of control and endangering his health, you need to put it in someones hands more qualified than you to put a stop to it. It sounds like trying to mediate this is breeding jealousy, animosity, and most importantly DRAMA between you two. My suggestion is, state your peace, and if he tries to talk to you, reinforce it by telling him he knows what you think about it, then back off.
People have friends, family, lovers, co workers, and bosses. They all have lives, Stay OUT of them.
And Finally, slightly off topic, I've a soft spot for situations similar to this because when my marriage was falling apart from beginning to it's eventual end, it was the people who SUPPOSED to like me only for my money who never asked for a dime of it. One of my BEST friends is "just happens to be" a "stripper" in one of the most well known clubs for extras on Dale Mabry Blvd. And she's NOTHING of your assumptions. Just telling you, they may not all be as YOU see em.