Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
does that statistic include women who decide to go larger, get more lipo, etc?
Just because someone goes back for another surgery, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was botched the first time.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emily
does that statistic include women who decide to go larger, get more lipo, etc?
This stat was from the VH1 expose program I just watched. There's more info @ the VH1 website.
To answer your question Emily, yes, this statistic includes:
Liposuction
Rhinoplasty
Augmentation (sline & silicone)
Lips
Botox
Laser hair removal
& other ("supposedly" relatively simple) outpatient procedures.
It was stated while they were discussing the spectrum of procedures, so I am guessing it encompasses them all.
The program was put forth in a Pro vs. Con format (upsides vs. downsides) in which outpatient to maintenance to obsession (a.k.a. look-a-like) procedures, were also addressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emily
Just because someone goes back for another surgery, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was botched the first time.
I feel what you're saying, but this expose specified that the "1 out of 4 procedures" stat was indeed for corrective surgery, which is why I posted it, since I know a lot of girls have had, or are thinking about having it.
Your point about multiple procedures was addressed in the program; however, return clients were not figured into the 25% figure.
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Dentists can perform plastic surgery in about 10 states, including Illinois & Georgia
(Not CA - Arnold passed legislation banning it in CA) :
:O !!!
Take care and take care of your bodies.
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Yes Ive read these figures before. The statitstics are higher for some procedures than others too. (And if you look into regular surgery and hospital admissions the figures are not always pleasing...)
Im interested to know more about botox adverse effects. My gut feeling has always been that it isnt as safe as they claim. I know the above and also that there is a small risk of strokes from it.
Interestingly I saw an oldish documentary about people with dystonia which is one of the medical conditions botox was originally used for. Two of thewomen commented that they felt that the treatments long term use had aged them much more quickly.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
I lot of studies are not conducted properly. I'm not saying this is the case here, but who did the study? If Harvard or someone of that caliber did it I would believe the study results but if its a study done by some random organization I wouldn't put too much confidence in it. In a proper study everyone has to be randomly selected and each person who has plastic surgery in a year has to have an equal chance of being selected.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Botox and laser hair removal procedures are not "surgeries". If people are going back for more Botox and LHR because, a significant amount of time, those procedures DO call for repeats as part of the treatment, then that would skew the number significantly. So I don't buy that at all. If you look at the number of revisions for individual procedures, they vary pretty widely but are usually in the teens. I also think there's a pretty huge difference between someone who goes in for a BA revision because they want to go larger, and someone who needs a revision because the surgeon screwed up. I think the data should've focused on corrective revisions and actual SURGERIES, not things like Botox.
I mean, really, the above statistic is like saying that TCA peels have a "high revision rate" because people have more than one. Well, of course they do.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
i would not consider a 'corrective' surgery to mean a surgeon is correcting his work. i would take that to mean the patient is having something corrected for clinical reasons as opposed to vanity reasons....
it's a pretty loose word.
i strongly doubt that most surgeons' do-over rate is 25%.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
I'm not sure about those stats, but I was a patient that had a do over..firsr BA wasn't anything like what I'd asked for, had to go for a second much more painful and scarring surgery.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nautilus
i would not consider a 'corrective' surgery to mean a surgeon is correcting his work. i would take that to mean the patient is having something corrected for clinical reasons as opposed to vanity reasons....
Yeah, corrective surgery just means something is being "fixed."
Think corrective vs. cosmetic when it comes to plastic surgery.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Back after a long and pleasant weekkend.
I hope everyone is well :flirt: .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aussiepunkshocker
Yes Ive read these figures before. The statitstics are higher for some procedures than others too. (And if you look into regular surgery and hospital admissions the figures are not always pleasing...)
The research is undeniable, as you have read for yourself ;) .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aussiepunkshocker
Im interested to know more about botox adverse effects. My gut feeling has always been that it isnt as safe as they claim. I know the above and also that there is a small risk of strokes from it.
And you would be correct. Botox affects the central nervous system, which is constituted by the brain and spinal cord. These, of course, regulate both voluntary and involuntary physical responses; i.e. walking, speaking, dancing & heart rate, breathing - basically, the processes which keep us alive.
The risk of stroke and other adverse reactions increases with the patient's personal and family medical history. Since many patients do not even know their preexisting, or predisposition for preexisting, conditions they cannot provide this information to their surgeons. This omission may also occur as negligence to inquire on behalf of the surgeon.
Another VERY REAL (and very common) reason being that patients DO NOT follow doctor's orders and/or are not completely honest with the surgeon in hopes that they will be considered a "good candidate," and in fear that their eligibility would be reversed by doctor’s decision.
For example: It is recommended for plastic / cosmetic surgery patients to cease smoking 3 weeks before the surgical procedure, as well as restricting smoking for about 2 weeks after surgery. This increases the immune system’s ability to repair itself, as well as decreasing the risk of infections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aussiepunkshocker
Interestingly I saw an oldish documentary about people with dystonia which is one of the medical conditions botox was originally used for. Two of thewomen commented that they felt that the treatments long term use had aged them much more quickly.
Isn't that convenient aussiepunkshocker ::) ? From a marketing perspective, this would make Botox like crack - to keep people coming back regularly.
I have also heard this said of cortisone injections (for chronic site pain). The first application of cortisone seems to relieve some of the symptoms; however, the longer patients received the injections, the greater the efficacy of the treatment would be exponentially reduced.
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luckischalk
I'm not saying this is the case here, but who did the study?
Hello luckischalk.
This “study” was conducted by the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery a.k.a. the AAFPRS, which is "the world's largest association of facial plastic and reconstructive surgeons".
The American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery is the world's largest specialty association that represents over 2,700 facial plastic and reconstructive surgeons throughout the world. The AAFPRS is a National Medical Specialty Society of the American Medical Association (AMA), and holds an official seat in both the AMA House of Delegates and the American College of Surgeons board of governors (Citation: See their site for more info.).
In their survey, the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery found that out of 150,000 rhinoplasties performed every year, nearly 21% are what are called “revision” patients; revision as in having to correct mistakes from an original procedure (i.e. corrective).
As a matter of fact, because of this, the AAFPRS felt pressure to release a public report titled, “Reports of Botched Surgeries Not to be Taken Lightly,” and although the statistics obviously warranted a completely factual and non-biased response complete with a warning title from this AMA branch of plastic surgery, they conveniently omitted the statistical figures in this so-called "public" report.
I take this to be a credible source being that the AMA would not want to put this out their necessarily of their own volition, since it is bad for their business, except to avoid future lawsuits for lack of advisory. If it were an insignificant number, they might have swept it under the rug, as with so many other AMA / FDA public health and safety issues (Think Avandia in recent news).
P.S. The information I post is credible and backed by excellent sources which I am fully confident do take the basic format of the scientific method into account.
:flirt:.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aviendha
Botox and laser hair removal procedures are not "surgeries".
Hello aviendha.
I feel what you mean, since the modern conventional reference to surgery has become to "to cut one open with a scalpel" with all references to plastic surgery being better received from clients, errr, I mean patients, as “cosmetic procedures”.
I mean, they even refer to tummy tucks & bariatric body “contouring” as “procedures” – /:O Ummm, okay.
Plastic/cosmetic surgery is a bu$ine$$ like any other. I mean, it's like assuming that all of these p.s. offices popping up all over the place are trying to help people with actual deformities, such as cleft palette.
When surgeons became more financially accessible to everyone, they began marketing to the public. Their marketing analysts found that customers of these “procedures” were uncomfortable with the societal perception that they would undergo “surgery” for the sake of vanity. As a result, they changed their marketing strategy to make this form of body modification as routine as getting your teeth cleaned in order to increase sales. This obviously did wonders for this barely monitored multi-billion dollar industry.
I respect the fact that you don’t personally consider Botox or laser hair removal a surgery; however, please consider that the following agencies do:
The US government as a whole, including the Food and Drug Administration and the NIH
The Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research
The American Medical Association
The American Society of Plastic Surgeons
The American Academy of Dermatology
The American Association of Plastic Surgeons
The American Society for Laser Medicine and Surgery (Laser medicine has therapeutic effects on conditions which respond to UV radiation, such as genetic autoimmune disorders)
The American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery.
Laser facial and skin resurfacing, laser hair removal, microdermabrasion, chemical peels and restalyne/fat/collagen injections are all considered surgeries; albeit "minor".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aviendha
If people are going back for more Botox and LHR because, a significant amount of time, those procedures DO call for repeats as part of the treatment, then that would skew the number significantly. So I don't buy that at all.
The statistics to do not include maintenance on correctly performed procedures. The report warns about plastic/cosmetic statistics on procedures which "required revision and correcting surgical complications".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aviendha
I also think there's a pretty huge difference between someone who goes in for a BA revision because they want to go larger, and someone who needs a revision because the surgeon screwed up.
Of course aviendha; however, as I stated before, these statistics do not reflect elective revision, as you are suggesting, they reflect the latter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aviendha
I think the data should've focused on corrective revisions and actual SURGERIES, not things like Botox.
What exactly are you referring to?
The AAFPRS report has been peer reviewed and is based on actual plastic/cosmetic surgical statistics (in which Botox is included).
Why would they put out a negative report on themselves if it weren't true /:O ?
Tobacco companies run anti-smoking campaigns, not becasue they really want people to stop smoking, but becasue the negative reports are true and they have been court-sanctioned to exhibit some sort of "civic responsibility" toward the youth and adults which have become addicted through their (now widely-publicized) marketing deception.
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Is it me or has this thread gotten a little touchy :-[ ?
It was not my intention.
I would like to clarify my perspective: I do not think of myself as a judge, so I am not judging anyone who has had any of these procedures; therefore, there is nothing for those of you who have done so, or are thinking about doing so, to defend.
However, I ask you to consider my posts as informational. Furthermore, I would not start a thread regarding something I know nothing about (unless it's a question ::) ; LoL). Everything I have posted is verifiable from various credible sources. And if I have noticed any error in my statements, I have immediately corrected myself (because I do not like to be misquoted - ::snap + a head roll:: LoL).
You might take the information into consideration, or you may choose not to. You might appreciate the information and apply it, or you might reject it - that's fine too.
Either way, I try post information which is "little known," in the hopes that someone might appreciate and benefit from it.
For those who have, I am glad :) .
Although my inspiration to start this thread arose from a television program's referenced statistic, it has been verified (generally as "an unacceptably high mortality rate") in medical literature (hence the aforementioned report).
I come into contact with (mountains) of medical and technological journals which are not p.ublicl.y accessible and thought this was relevant to post in here for someone's possible benefit.
:flirt:.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nautilus
it's a pretty loose word.
Yes it is, and I believe that the wording is conveniently misleading, such as: "correction," "revision," "procedure," and "surgery". These seemingly mean to be used interchangeably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nautilus
i strongly doubt that most surgeons' do-over rate is 25%.
If you factor in surgical errors, surgical complications, and secondary surgical complications, you would be surprised.
I will tell you the reason why this statistic will never be "officially confirmed" as far as cosmetic/plastic surgeons go:
There is NO REAL mandatory system of checks and balances in the medical field, which is why they get away with so much and seem to evade any serious legislation. When someone looks for a plastic/cosmetic surgeon, they usually think their surgeon is “clean” if they have their “Board Certification”…
*Little Known Fact*
What if I told you that that brushed gold framed “Board Certification” in his/her office alone DOES NOT qualify that surgeon FOR ANY procedure, from the “basic” laser hair removal to the more invasive liposuction procedure?
*Little Known Fact*
What if I told you that “Board Certification” is given even to surgeons WHO HAVE NOT completed the intensive and comprehensive training required by the AMA for certification in plastic surgery which instructs, demonstrates and proves the surgeon’s abilities and detailed anatomical knowledge of their corresponding specialty?
*Little Known Fact*
What if I told you that “Board Certified Cosmetic Surgeons” ARE NOT RECOGNIZED by the AMA because these surgeons HAVE NOT been formally educated in the intricacies of plastic surgery?
:flirt:.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
someone who doesn't belong to the board or the college in my book is not a surgeon.
it's like the GPs here who think they can do plastic procedures.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Hello and *Bump*.
I recently came across this news in public domain Re: Botox applications;
Quote:
"The only approved cosmetic use is for temporary smoothing of wrinkles between the eyebrows. Most cosmetic uses of botulinum toxin are unapproved,". the group said
In some cases, according to Public Citizen, the toxin "has spread to other parts of the body with serious consequences, such as paralysis of respiratory muscles and difficulty swallowing ... possibly leading to food or liquids entering the respiratory tract and lungs, causing aspiration pneumonia."
The group said that between November 1997 and December 2006 there were 16 deaths among the 658 reported cases of people "suffering adverse effects from injections of botulinum toxin."
The FDA data they used came "from voluntary reports, which have been estimated to account for only 10 percent of actual cases," the statement read.
Just offering a heads-up.
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hot2Trot
Hello and *Bump*.
I recently came across this news in public domain Re: ;
Just offering a heads-up.
:flirt: .
This is mainly when it is used to treat rigid neck muscles and it travels to the esopheagus, causing asperation which can lead to pneumonia. This procedure is done in children and the elderly sometimes. Wrinkle prevention is usually only done in adults with healthy immune systems.
This is not to say you cant have a serious complication while treating your forhead wrinkles. Just wanted to point out that statistics can oftentimes be misleading.
Jasmine
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Whatever, I love my boobs and chin implant. I'm getting a nose job and cheek implants too.
Nothing's perfect! But it should all be better regulated.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Hi jasmine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jasmine
This is mainly when it is used to treat rigid neck muscles and it travels to the esopheagus, causing asperation which can lead to pneumonia. This procedure is done in children and the elderly sometimes. Wrinkle prevention is usually only done in adults with healthy immune systems.
Yes jasmine, you are correct. That, in addition to twitching of the eyes, face, torso and crossed eyes. Interestingly it also includes hyperhidrosis, which except for the negative psychological impact on self-esteem is "technically" more of a cosmetic treatment.
The main article point I desired to highlight by posting this was:
Quote:
"The only approved cosmetic use is for temporary smoothing of wrinkles between the eyebrows. Most cosmetic uses of botulinum toxin are unapproved."
Only because I wouldn’t want to read of anyone here having a negative experience;
:-[ ;
That’s all.
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ViolaStrings
Whatever, I love my boobs and chin implant. I'm getting a nose job and cheek implants too.
LoL VS;
:D .
Well, just be careful, well-informed and familiar wth your doctor and his/her background;
:) .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ViolaStrings
Nothing's perfect! But it should all be better regulated.
Agreed ViolaStrings. When will they "get around to it" seems to be another issue entirely...
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hot2Trot
Dentists can perform plastic surgery in about 10 states, including Illinois & Georgia
(Not CA - Arnold passed legislation banning it in CA) :
:O !!!
Take care and take care of your bodies.
:flirt: .
That's an Oral Surgeon who is is Board Certified in Maxillofacial Surgery. They are not limited to only pulling teeth, but repairing faces after car accidents etc. As well as fixing say.. a jaw that just not look good.
We have 3 who work our trauma center, and what they do is fantastic!
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hot2Trot
Dentists can perform plastic surgery in about 10 states, including Illinois & Georgia
(Not CA - Arnold passed legislation banning it in CA) :
:O !!!
Take care and take care of your bodies.
:flirt: .
I find that very odd that a "dentist" can perform any surgery. They don't even pull teeth these days. They will send the patient to an Oral Surgeon. They are in the business of repairing teeth.
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pamela
That's an Oral Surgeon who is is Board Certified in Maxillofacial Surgery. They are not limited to only pulling teeth, but repairing faces after car accidents etc. As well as fixing say.. a jaw that just not look good.
We have 3 who work our trauma center, and what they do is fantastic!
Yes, of course Pamela. Thank goodness for that as they are especially needed in those incidents. It's sad to think that maybe even 10 years ago, they weren't as available for trauma as they are now...
However, I was referring to oral surgeons who perform actual cosmetic surgeries in their dental offices, such as in the state of Washington, which allows doctors who have been banned in other states to practice there on thousands of patients.
One case in point: Dr. Thomas Laney, MD.
This guy was trained in oral surgery- AMA Board Certified in oral surgery, yet his office services include:
1) Breast augmentations,
2) Tummy tucks and
3) Full-body liposuction, (the big one for dentists although they are not prepared to deal with complications arising as a result of surgery) in his dental office.
Now, although he is AMA Board Certified to practice oral surgery, the only certification he has to perform "below-the-neck" plastic surgery was not granted to him through the accepted (and supposedly required) ADA residency/fellowship, but through courses offered through conferences occurring mostly in hotels around the country which were most likely pharmaceutical reps demonstrating the product and technique-
Not exactly kosher. More like cheap back-alley medicine IMHO...
He has been sued over 10 times, settling 8 of the ten.
This is how rogue doctors are dealt with:
Quote:
"Continuing education is often ordered in cases when dental care is found to be substandard. But some experts feel that continuing education doesn't work -- especially when there's no system to check whether dentists have actually improved their work;"
No system of checks and balances. As a matter of fact, former president of the Wyoming dental board Dr. Robert Pattalochi himself said,
Quote:
"Nowhere does it say that taking CE (continuing education) courses makes you competent. It's a feel-good attempt to deal with incompetency but in no way assures that a really bad dentist will change or learn anything...mandating CE for these people is worthless."
*Mind you, this thread/my posts are not intended to put anyone down or anything of the sort-
:) .
Only to bring awareness to the fact that just as every industry has a black market, so there is a black market on body modification.*
The problem is that it is so lucrative that many agencies are inspired to keep the negative publicity about it hushed and as a result, people are trusting their doctors with their lives unaware of all of the potential risks that are not statistically "signifiant enough" to make the fine print, yet they may possibly end up encountering.
Links (just a couple of many):
Death cases closed quietly:
The histories of many dentists and doctors are hidden from consumers
Punishment for dentists? They go to class:
Dentists cited for substandard care often allowed to continue working
:flirt: .
Re: Botched Plastic Surgery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pamela
I find that very odd that a "dentist" can perform any surgery. They don't even pull teeth these days. They will send the patient to an Oral Surgeon. They are in the business of repairing teeth.
Exactly my point Pamela.
;) .
There are breast augmentation, tummy tuck and liposuction specialists who working within the realm of aesthetics, their techniques are akin to those of artists making them more like sculpturers of human flesh than surgeons.
Why then are dentists, and even oral surgeons for that matter, performing these procedures?
I have read that it brings in more revenue for the dentist, while giving the patient access to a procedure at a lower cost.
Simply put, they want to cash in on the wave.
Of course, skimping on the failsafes, such as having the proper monitoring systems and being adequately staffed and equipped to deal with arising complications will dramatically cut the overall cost of a procedure. Unfortunately, the patient at most risk, as usual, is the one looking to have a procedure done at the lowest price, which isn't unreasonable for a person to try to obtain, IMHO.
And unfortunately, there are many patients who are overly optimistic, under-informed and seduced by these discounted procedures who end up with more than they bargained for in the form of problems.
Please allow me to reiterate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot2Trot
Only because I wouldn’t want to read of anyone here having a negative experience;
:-[ ;
That’s all.
:) .
:flirt: .