-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
This is NOT a matter of wanna dance verses sit-n-chat hustle. I am not advocating that we all learn to close a sale in 30 seconds or get the hell out of the club.
On the contrary! I am a sit and chat dancer. I prefer working slower shifts and can keep an old white business man entertained for hours. This is WHY I am so frustrated. Giving away your conversation for free makes MY conversation less valuable.
Kiki, you said: "The service to you is that you wont waste your time by going up to him since he's just there to have conversation and doesn't mind tipping me to compensate for it." I really don't understand this statement at all. If you are getting PAID for sitting there chatting, you are not my concern. That is kinda the point. You are REINFORCING the idea that conversation is not free. I am best at conversation and prefer that to lapping my ass off all night, so this helps me. I will add that to say that you, with your brilliant talking hustle, are preventing me from wasting my time trying to run my quick, cheap hustle on him is very insulting. I hope that's not what you meant.
And while I do understand the point that I may not know what is going on between the dancer and the customer and for all I know she is getting paid very discreetly for her time, THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. If one of our top earners sits at a table all night long I can pretty much assume she's being compensated. If one of our new stringy-haired little alcoholics does the same and is later found crying int he dressing room because the money is so bad, well, I can do the math on that one, too.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Totally agree with you Dottie! It's not the girls that are sitting making money through conversation. My problem is with the girls that sit with guys for hours at a time drinking all dam night. Then come in the d'ressing room bitching about about "tonight sux I don't even have $100 yet"
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
When I first started dancing, I would sit and talk with the customers. I wasn't as confident, didn't have big breasts, so I used my friendliness and then, uber-cheerfulness, to get a dance. I definitely sat with guys too long, but I wasn't confident enough to quickly ask for a dance. All this changed in time, but I remember the girls at the club would gripe in the dressing room to one another about this girl who talks too long with the customers. But no one ever nicely explained anything to me. They always gave me the cold shoulder. And I didn't know any better.
So from my POV, if these girls are newbies, be nice to them. Explain stuff to them. If you're angry with them, or hostile, why should they listen? (I'm not saying anybody is, I'm just relating my experience from a long time ago.)
It never bothered me later on if girls did this. I was always kind of glad because it kept them busy and wasting their time. And customers who really want to do dances with somebody else will totally brush these girls off.
The fact that they're complaining in the dressing room though...ugh. Totally unprofessional.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dottie Rebel
Giving away your conversation for free makes MY conversation less valuable.
EXACTLY!!! I cant tell a guy that I cant sit with him for free if 10 other girls are perfectly willing to. Which really bugs me since my biggest money customers have ALWAYS been the type that pay huge amounts for conversation. Why would they give me thousands of dollars ...and tip the DJ, manager, etc to keep me off stage rotation...if they knew damn well that my statement of "they wont allow it for free" was BS and girls WOULD sit there for nothing. Grrr.....I'm at work. If you want me to spend time with you..whether it is dancing or not...it isnt free.I didnt come to the club to make a friend dammit.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
This has probably already been said, but there is NOTHING worse than a girl that sits hours with one customer until he leaves then goes onto another customer..till he leaves..and doesn't get a single fucking dance.
WHY DO YOU DO THIS? they leave because they can't get rid of you and want another dancer...and just give up.
MY GOD
Okay im done.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dottie Rebel
Kiki, you said: "The service to you is that you wont waste your time by going up to him since he's just there to have conversation and doesn't mind tipping me to compensate for it." I really don't understand this statement at all. If you are getting PAID for sitting there chatting, you are not my concern. That is kinda the point. You are REINFORCING the idea that conversation is not free. I am best at conversation and prefer that to lapping my ass off all night, so this helps me. I will add that to say that you, with your brilliant talking hustle, are preventing me from wasting my time trying to run my quick, cheap hustle on him is very insulting. I hope that's not what you meant.
I wasn't being insulting, I just want to point out that my slow hustle of having conversation for a lengthy period of time while being compensated for less than a dance, is not lowering the standard for dancers who use a quicker hustle. There's the other side of the story that dancers, that view the girl who sits for a while, should see. You never know whether the guy has money and is compensating the girl, has no money and just wants to chat, and/or whether she knows him already. We shouldn't jump to critisize the girl. We don't know the real story. If she goes back and complains that she makes no money, then that's her problem. I don't think of her lowering the standards of dancers. I leave that opinion to all the girls that are doing extras in the back.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Dottie, I agree with you 100%. Working in the same club, I see this every time I work. However, I don't feel like it hurts my money at all. I make money whether they are wasting their time or not. I know I've said it before, but you should come in earlier. That evening crowd is where it's at, moneywise. When the 9, 10, 11:00 girls get there I have already made 75% of what I'm going to make for the night.
The only person I know who makes dollar dances work is one of the top earners in the club, I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. I've never understood her doing that, but she isn't comfortable with the "cold hustle" that I do. I don't think twice about walking up to a table, she likes to be able to open with the dance thing. And she never says "dollar dance," so it's ok by me.
And yeah, the ones who drink all night and sit for free sure don't seem to make any money at all. The ones I'm thinking of are never in VIP. Guys are always asking me why I don't drink and I tell them the truth. If I start drinking I'll forget what I'm there for. I rarely catch flack for this. If someone doesn't like that I ordered a Diet Coke, they probably aren't the kind of customer I'd want to mess with anyway. There are a few exceptions where I will not turn down a drink, but I never drink it once it gets to the table.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kikiwiki
I wasn't being insulting.............
I don't think of her lowering the standards of dancers. I leave that opinion to all the girls that are doing extras in the back.
Why is that always the chorus of the girls who haven't made anything?
Also, we have a pretty small club. Most of us who have been there awhile know who the moneymakers are and they know which girls sit for nothing.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
I don't care if I'm in the vip dancing or sitting with a customer on the floor, if i am keeping him company he WILL give me the same amount I would make doing private dances. I don't give anything away for free and they aren't my friends, they are customers. I think sitting for hours on end with these losers for a couple of hundred is UNDERCUTTING the other dancers. Sorry, just my two cents.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kikiwiki
just want to point out that my slow hustle of having conversation for a lengthy period of time while being compensated for less than a dance.
that IS UNDERCUTTING.
giving the guy attention for less money than a dance?
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
i think (hope) that kikiwiki meant that her conversation was 'less than a dance' in terms of effort/exertion, not that she was charging less than a dance or vip hourly price in her slower hustle.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
This new chick at my work was in the private dance area with these 2 guys for about an hour and a half and myself and another dancer commented to her that she did really well on her first night. She then explained that because one of the guys got a $20 dance and then told his friend to get a $20 she decided to pay them back by giving them FREE DANCES!!!! My dancer friend and I just threw eachother a horrified glance!!
A $20 is one song so she should have been there for 2 songs not 1.5 hours.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
I am NOT undercutting if they guy doesn't want to get dances but wants to tip me for my time to hang out. What is so wrong about that??? I'm not sitting there and charging them. I'm not sitting there and telling them, you gotta give me "X" amount if you want me to sit there. They know that I'm at work, they just say "here's some money since you're hanging out". What is so wrong with that? ESPECIALLY if the guy straight up tells me not to dance, that he's NOT INTERESTED in dances but doesn't mind tipping me for my time. Hey, everyone gets on the guy that comes in, sits orders a drink and never buys anything. Well how about the guy that wants to just see the show and doesn't mind paying a girl to hang out? He's still spending. He's not wasting my time to me. I look around and see a ton of girls sitting around doing nothing. Why would I get up and sit around and do nothing when I can be hanging out, having a great ole time and just get paid while sitting there? I do not see how I'm undercutting Velvet. I'm not negotiating a price. The guy wants to hang out and see the show, I encourage him to tip the girls on stage, I encourage him to buy me dances, he doesn't want to go to a private room when he wants to see the show. You shouldn't punish the guy for wanting to just hang AND you shouldn't punish me giving him a good time- which is my great company. Miabella, you are correct, I'm talking about effort/exhertion, I'm not negotiating prices or charging anything for my time, I am getting compensated in amounts they think is appropriate. If the guy is just giving me5 -10 dollars, I don't stay long, but when he's giving me a hundred or a few 20's my way every half hour, for just hanging, that adds up. To me it's simply easier, less effort money. I'm not breaking a sweat. I'm not going to be greedy and ask for more, and I'm not going to push a dance when the guy clearly has asked me just to hang w/o giving dances.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bellona
I don't care if I'm in the vip dancing or sitting with a customer on the floor, if i am keeping him company he WILL give me the same amount I would make doing private dances. I don't give anything away for free and they aren't my friends, they are customers. I think sitting for hours on end with these losers for a couple of hundred is UNDERCUTTING the other dancers. Sorry, just my two cents.
Don't you think that calling our customers "LOSERS" is very harsh since it's because of them that we make a good living? Grant it, there are some custies that come in and are losers b/c they disrespect us, but not all of them do, so I feel that the ones that do respect us should be left out of the "Loser" catagory. To any customers on this forum that are offended by Bellona's statement, I'd like to apologize on her behalf. Obviously not all of us in the industry view you as "Losers" and thank you for your contribution to our industry.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holiday
I love this post. I cannot stand watching a dancer sit at some guys table drinking for an hour while not getting any dances.
.
A good point was made by someone else who said, you don't know whether or not that girl is getting paid. I have a few customers who I rarely dance for, but pay me for my time. I don't make a big deal when they slip me the cash, nor do I feel the need to discuss it with anyone. I do take 20 min sometimes longer to warm up a custy ( when dances or VIP will be involved), it is well invested time and I almost never have more than 2 or 3 customers in a night. To be honest, i can feel in the first min or so whether or not they will be worth the time. So anyone watching may assume I am one of those girls, but ask me if I care. I think if you see someone sitting with a guy and have time to worry about it , are you doing your job?
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bellona
I don't care if I'm in the vip dancing or sitting with a customer on the floor, if i am keeping him company he WILL give me the same amount I would make doing private dances. I don't give anything away for free and they aren't my friends, they are customers. I think sitting for hours on end with these losers for a couple of hundred is UNDERCUTTING the other dancers. Sorry, just my two cents.
So he wasn't buying dances, and had a few hundred to spend. Are you saying she should have declined the offer to prevent undercutting? So he would have no company ( as no dancer would sit with him since he's not buying dances and it's soooo wrong to sit with him for less than 20 per song) and leave the club with his money. I'm sorry but the LOSERS are the people who are so consumed with the practices and actions of others. In my club we worry about ourselves and everyone is happy. We are self employed contractors and thus rightfully may set and or negotiate what WE think is fair for us personally. For real, I see the overall point, but the girls that are complaining about this should spend their energy figuring out what is really impacting their money.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
I am SO with Kaylinn and Kiki on this one... I'm trying not to jump into this argument, but I also know from experience it takes a different kind of hustle to be successful in different places or clubs.
I don't think its undercutting other dancers either. If they are just sitting with the same guy all night it just means you have all the rest of the guys in the club to yourself.
There was a girl at my old club who had a regular who made a VERY good living and spent much of it on her. I used to talk to him sometimes, and occasionally he got a few dances with me when he was waiting for his ATF. I remember he told me that the night he met her they sat at the bar and talked for an hour. She never even asked him for a dance. He didn't spend a single dollar on her. A month later he came back and she remembered his name. She was the top earner at that club.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
A-fucken-men!!! Just the other night this little roly-poly lazyass cunt who wears FLIP- FLOPS at work sat with a guy who'd been in all week spending on me; she sat there with him allllllllll night until he finally left. I knew he wanted dances from me because he kept making those faces and such, but she wouldn't leave and he was too nice to say anything. When he walked out the door he looked utterly disgusted and annoyed. I watched his full wallet (that would've been spent on me) walk right out the door. He didn't buy on single dance from her, just bought her a few drinks. She moseyed back to the dressing room when he left, looking totally confused, and broke. It was all I could do to keep from running up to her and asking if she'd had a good time sitting there for 3 hours for FREE with that guy and keeping him from spending his money on anyone else. I wanted bitchslap her right out of those fucking flip-flops >:(
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bridgette
A-fucken-men!!! Just the other night this little roly-poly lazyass cunt who wears FLIP- FLOPS at work sat with a guy who'd been in all week spending on me; she sat there with him allllllllll night until he finally left. I knew he wanted dances from me because he kept making those faces and such, but she wouldn't leave and he was too nice to say anything. When he walked out the door he looked utterly disgusted and annoyed. I watched his full wallet (that would've been spent on me) walk right out the door. He didn't buy on single dance from her, just bought her a few drinks. She moseyed back to the dressing room when he left, looking totally confused, and broke. It was all I could do to keep from running up to her and asking if she'd had a good time sitting there for 3 hours for FREE with that guy and keeping him from spending his money on anyone else. I wanted bitchslap her right out of those fucking flip-flops >:(
Whoa Bridgette! Hold on. It really takes two to tango. She wasted her time with him and he wasted his. SHE DIDN'T WASTE HIS TIME, again HE wasted his for not doing what he should have done. He could have, should have kindly told her that he was waiting for you (since you say he was waiting for you right?), so why didn't he?
I don't think her wasting her time constitutes you to want to "Bitch slap" her . How the hell was she supposed to know it was YOUR money? Maybe you should want to "Bitch slap" him too for not saying anything to her.
Buffie, thank you for making my point even clearer. Dancers really should start minding thier own business when it comes to how a dancer wants to make her money. WE ARE ENTERTAINERS. Conversation is part of the entertainment. And if someone wants to just pay for the conversation part of the entertainment, I don't see how that's hurting the business. You know what does hurt the business? When dancers take it to a whole new level with the extras. They make it no longer an adult caberet but they make it into a sex club. Let's leave the girls that sit and simply entertain the men with charm. Conversation is just so harmless.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
First off let me say this. What some other girl is doing in the club NEVER affects my money. Second, I don't give a shit what these CUSTIES on this board think, the only reason they get to stay on this board is because they kiss ass. My problem with the girls that do this kind of stuff is they don't get what they are worth, they think its acceptable for guys to decide the amount of money they will earn. fuck that, your time is the same whether your grinding on a guy or keeping him company on the floor.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kikiwiki
WE ARE ENTERTAINERS. Conversation is part of the entertainment. And if someone wants to just pay for the conversation part of the entertainment, I don't see how that's hurting the business.
Point missed. And then this (again?!)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kikiwiki
You know what does hurt the business? When dancers take it to a whole new level with the extras.
Extras girls are not hurting my business. If I have apples to sell and a customer wants oranges, he may as well go to another store and quit bothering me, cause I DON'T SELL ORANGES. No harm to me if he goes elsewhere for what he wants. I don't sell it.
However, if he wants apples and someone is practically giving away apples outside my storefront, saying, "Hey, I know she charges 50 cents an apples, but you can just give me whatever you want. I just love sellin' apples" then I'm pissed.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Kiki, I really don't think there's as much conflict here are you perceive. Re-read the title - it's not "Please stop sitting with customers", period. It's stop doing it FOR FREE. You're not doing that. Thus you're not the problem.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
This is hard for me to understand as well. This is a job, not a social party. It's like a sales rep. You really don't expect them to drive all over the province/state to talk to people for free do you? I mean, great way to make money, NOT! Why would you spend all your money on car expenses, food, shelter, clothes, just to talk to people? No one expects you in any other job, to give merchandise away for free, unless, there's other "fine print" in the offer, like, you're signed to contract to spend so much for this amount of time to come to pay for that one free/discounted moment. Your time is your merchandise, and you're selling it. An independant contractor, like an electrician, would NEVER do a job discounted or free. Unless the person has been their customer for their entire career. Same should go in SC's. Your time and attention costs money, that's why you're there. Done, no more.
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Kiki, clearly you are missing he point and taking offense at the wrong thing. You're making an argument out of nothing here.
But, YES I knew full well that guy wasn't giving that girl any money to sit there. I also know full well he could've told her to go away, but as we experienced girls know, some guys are just too nice to say something (or they will take what they can get for FREE when someone is giving it away ::) ). That girl lowered the overall amount of money spent in the club that night - every girl who hangs out with guys for FREE is doing that. That lowers ALL our income potential. Girls like that should NOT be dancing, period. Especially sloppy little dumbasses who wear FLIP-FLOPS on the floor. ugh. Why are you continuing to miss this point?
-
Re: Please stop sitting with customers for FREE.
Does "slow" hustle automatically mean "no" hustle? It seems like it here.
If someone's used to making a certain amount of money in a night and then willingly compromises themselves and settles for less, that's just choosing to have no hustle IMO, at least on that night.
I've had crappy and amazing nights as a dancer, but I always did the best I could in the club given the circumstances (for example, depending on the actual number of customers).
To me, the definition of "slow hustle" is taking a bit more time to close a sale but still with the expectation that you'll at least come close to what you'd like to make for that night, perhaps because the club is a bit less full and there are fewer potential guys to spend money.
And here's the thing, I considered myself a "lazy dancer" in a lot of ways too, which is why most shifts I tried to make the most money with the least effort possible, ideally from as few people as possible. I was a true salesperson, and knew how to close a sale. Like with any sale, some might take more time than others to close, but a smart dancer will know 99% of the time when it's time to walk away and look for a new potential customer.
If the club had few people, I'd typically spend more time trying to close the sale, but if the club was packed with guys that were practically begging to throw money at us, if I wasn't being taken to VIP in five minutes (and five minutes doesn't sound like that long, but trust me, if you time it and know what you're doing it can be plenty of time to seal the deal) I was off to the next person. With the club slow, maybe 20-30 minutes. Regardless, I didn't give my time away for free.
Time is money, especially in SC.
Ok...end of rant.
PS-Bridgette, there's actually a girl at your club who dances in flip-flops?!??!??! Holy shit! Does she have all of her teeth?