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Thread: I would be richer if I never danced

  1. #26
    242_fair
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Britney you are way off base with your lecture and calculations.

    You are trying to act like I have some shortfall in my charachter, lazy stupid and careless, to be in my situation. Thanks a lot.

    I would never be a full time dancer and I would never make $100,000 per year. [actually most girls don't make $100,000 per year so get real]. That link paints a rosy picture but most girls are not making that money, lets be REALISTIC.

    I didn't want to be a stripper for life. Actually I didn't want to get naked for a living at all! I just did it to pay tuition. Which incidentally is tens of thousands of dollars, so figure that into your stupid little tally and see where the money went.

    Also, your post just emphasizes everything I hate about strippers and dancing. It's this narrow, near-sighted, trifiling interest in what you make "Per Night".

    "Ooooh, break dows a lawyer's earnings 'Per Night', then we'll see who comes out ahead." How infintile and low class... Where do you factor in the VALUE of stability that comes from a full-time Professional (non-stripping) job, with dental and health and retirement benefits, and interesting complex issues to occupy the mind all day, and more basically, the benefits of having a having a desk / computer / business card and co-workers who are not on drugs or criminals. What about having an office voice-mail you can give your kids teacher and shit?

    Focus of the Stripper Mind:
    Make $20. Repeat. Again. Again. Again.

    Focus of the Professiona:
    Issues in medicine
    Issues in law
    ...Yay it's payday!


    I really don't care what that link says:

    One hundred 18 year old girls start stripping
    One hundred 18 year old girls go to medical school, dental school, and law school....

    Which group has more happy, healthy, and rich members through the next 10,20, or 40 years? I think we know the answer.

    You can find a 5% exception, and maybe you fit in that category, but we all well know that is not the norm.

    Thanks Roulette Alaska Jenny and esp Deogol for the support, I really felt like shit when I posted that, and finding your replies helps a lot.

  2. #27
    Banned i.breathe.in's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    this thread makes me feel better about not being the only one to waste my money. but i enjoy spending it so its not completly wasting it.

  3. #28
    242_fair
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    God this is not a thread about wasting money.

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    No problem babe. as someone said you cant change the past. Buuuut now you have a fulfilling career (with good pay) to look forward to debt free. Woo hoo!!

    And no this isnt a thread about wasting money. You invested yours into yourself now so that you can have a better future!! that's a great thing!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska View Post
    I just got hollered at by a CUTE guy, at dusk, in my car, in gym attire and hair. Word?
    Picaresque is the shit, I loooooves her!!!

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  5. #30
    God/dess britneyireland's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    I'm still paying my college loans 10 years later. It's $250 a month and the interest is tax deductible. I REALLY don't think it's that big a deal. I couldn't have paid 130K out of pocket.
    Rebecca Avalon







  6. #31
    Vivacious
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Quote Originally Posted by 242_fair View Post

    Focus of the Stripper Mind:
    Make $20. Repeat. Again. Again. Again.

    Focus of the Professiona:
    Issues in medicine
    Issues in law
    ...Yay it's payday!
    I think this is a valid point. You get to spend the majority of your day learning new facts and new skills. I think at some point this becomes very limited in the clubs.

    I also think it is valid to feel regret over starting "late" or getting out of school "late," due to dancing. I think it's better for those of us who feel this way to admit to it because it's true that other people are racing forward, and have raced forward to the next step of their lives. I want to be there too.

    But, on the other hand, I see a lot of people having the same issues because they have the responsibilities of being a parent or because they don't have enough money to stay in school full time. There's only so much time in the day.

    Just on a tangent though, I wish people would quit judging each other on where they are at or their career choice. It's what you are happy with. But it is frustrating, if you have a goal you haven't met yet, to not be there already! And of course you're going to have regrets over what you feel made you lose time.

    242, one year will go by fast. Good luck to you!

  7. #32
    God/dess britneyireland's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    http://msn.careerbuilder.com/custom/...RecursionCnt=1

    I thought this was an interesting article. Of the 10 jobs profiled, only two did not require an advanced degree. The other 8 jobs required bachelor's plus masters degrees and STILL only paid $25 per hour.
    Rebecca Avalon







  8. #33
    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Well, now you know how to budget the money you do make. Maybe you would've gotten out of school, started a good job, blown all your money on dumb stuff, and be right where you are know. With a whole pile of student loans.

    I know that I personally could not work 5 nights a week making $715, or whatever formula I'd have to satisfy to retire at forty with a million dollars. That sounds like a great idea, and more power to the girls that do it, but 5 nights of dancing for the next 13 years would kill me.

    I want to do essentially what you have done -- pay my way through school and maybe save up a bit of a cash reserve so when I start working my "real" job I won't have to worry about not making money right away.

    We all have different goals for dancing. It's cool.

  9. #34
    God/dess britneyireland's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    242 Fair,

    I'm sorry if you feel like I was picking on you personally. It wasn't personal, it was a general statement towards ALL dancers that blame the industry for their own personal choices to party over work a steady schedule, blow their cash on expensive things instead of save, etc.

    Stability comes from inside YOU. I've known people with "stable" jobs who were very unstable people. They spent every dime of their 65K salary, and were in the same position as many dancers: in debt, few assets. My dancing job is very stable. I average 2K per week. Some weeks more, some weeks less. I know A LOT of girls who make more than me.

    Please tell me where Melanie and I are off with our calculations. Realistically, any stable dancer who is determined to reach her goals can make well over 100K per year. I know because I have lived this lifestyle for eight years and it is my goal to inspire other dancers to realize that being an entertainer is a valid career choice. Yes, YOU CAN make $100K per year. All it takes is $500 four nights a week. In an eight hour shift, that is roughly 10 dances/hour at a $10 dance club or 5 dances an hour at a $20 dance club.

    I never said to quit school or that school was a bad idea. I just think that having that piece of paper and a straight 9-5 job isn't what it's cracked up to be. As for 401K...you can refer to dollar den for my dismay with mutual funds. As an entertainer you can set up a SEP-IRA and get MORE tax benefits than you can with a 401K. Health insurance...pay out of pocket and it's a tax write off. Also something that employees can not claim.

    As for the happiness. Again that comes from inside YOU. A job doesn't make you happy. A lifestyle doesn't make you happy. I know a lot of really unhappy doctors and lawyers who would trade places with me in a snap.

    OK, it seems like my posts are being submitted in some weird order, which is why the above posts weren't in context. Let me go back and re read the thead.
    Rebecca Avalon







  10. #35
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    25 dollars an hour puts a person well into the upper THIRD of the population earnings-wise. a little perspective. having x dollar figure in the bank is cool and all, but excellent quality of life can be achieved without hundreds of thousands of dollars on hand.

    and frankly, in these types of income breakdowns, i'd like to see true apple to apple comparisons. comparing a 100k-200k earning stripper to other work earning 100-200k (some of it cash industry work, even) and THEN look at who'd come out ahead after 5, 10, 20 years living 'cheaply' and saving most of the money. since in all those non-stripper instances where one is earning 100k plus, the work can be done for decades without risk of the kind of burnout and social stigma strippers face. sure, a stripper can earn 100k for 10 years, but what about careers where you can earn 200k for 30 years?

    if i'm a consultant pulling 500 per hour working 40 hours per month, i am living a way more flexible and lucrative life than even super!stripper, with even more free time and money. THAT is a fairer comparison to the flexibility and income opportunities offered in stripping than comparing a fractional percent of all strippers to people making 30-50k per year. people making 30-50k per year should be compared with strippers who work more randomly or who only earn a little more than what a straight job might bring them.

  11. #36
    sun child
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    I really like this thread, and I hope I'm not threadjacking here with my thoughts. I hope you did not get your feelings hurt, 242_fair. I honestly do not think anyone meant to criticize you or lecture you.

    When I first got into this business, it was out of necessity. I was in a bad situation and I needed money. I immediately started making a lot of money, so I've stuck with it for a little over two years.

    Now, all my student loans (for the college classes I've paid for up to this point) and my debts are paid. For the first time in my life, I have a positive net worth. Now I'm wondering what direction in life I'm going to take. I've gotten past the "I have to strip for sustenance" point and now I'm at the "How can I make stripping help me with other goals in my life, what should those goals be, and how can I make the most of the time I spend working?"

    I know a lot of doctors and lawyers, and most work over 60 hours per week. Most professional jobs require this workload.. Those jobs are stressful, too, and not always the kind of work that everyone can just leave at the office.

    So, if one in fact wanted to become a super stripper, one who could command an average of $500+ a night on a regular basis, i.e. four nights a week, then yes, you could make a $100K+ gross income and spend less than 30 hours at work.

    I can see how this isn't possible for everyone. People tire of any line of work where there's no progress, and in stripping, for some, things will get harder, not easier. There is burn out. However, we have all seen those 45-year-old strippers who are gorgeous and rock the house. Not everyone can keep up stripping for 20 years, though. But not everyone can keep up other jobs that long, either. The burnout rate for paramedics, for instance, is really high.

    Any good plan to accomplish anything has to anticipate risks skillfully -- has to be both realistic and comprehensive about risks, especially the tricky ones like psychological and emotional risks.

    I hope to find a professional arena where I can achieve, and sustain for multiple decades, a sense of forward progress in an field I feel passion for and care about. I am not sure that this is stripping, for me. I'm still figuring things out, though.

    I think that forward progress ultimately trumps cash, so I can see your point, 242_fair, about how strippers have a short-term mentality (make money) and some other professions allow you to learn more and grow as you work. This is why guys like Michael Dell don't retire, and guys like Steve Fossett literally kill themselves flying around the world; the money simply didn't make them happy, and they need something new. Warren Buffett just donated 30 billion dollars to the Melinda and Bill Gates Foundation. At a certain point, money isn't everything. miabella, I understand your point about having a great quality of life on $25 an hour.

    We deal with hidden costs as strippers. It is a serious obstacle in the relationship world, unfortunately. There is a social stigma.

    School, to me, seems like slaving away learning a lot of boring shit (besides from the interesting stuff) and dealing with a lot of immature fools. But I also expect that the structure of school gives people a sense of motion - each class, test grade, year, and ultimately degree is going to feel like a step forward. That's why people in middle age go back to school for personal enrichment; they want that sense of progress, and their jobs aren't helping.

    I am really proud of you, 242_fair. A law degree is a huge accomplishment. And a year is not that long...I have faith that you can do it. If you don't want to strip at all, then by all means, do not become a career stripper. Some people actually enjoy stripping (myself included). But if being a lawyer and studying the law stimulates you, gives you a sense of accomplishment (which is what truly makes people happy), and fits in to the life that you want, then I say you are a lucky girl, and I wish you the best of luck in that career.

    This is a side note, but miabella, are you a consultant? I wish you wouldn't be so vague about the magical jobs you find that pay well and offer flexibility, but I suppose that's your choice. I only ask because I would like to know myself. It's a selfish motivation.

  12. #37
    God/dess britneyireland's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    I really like this thread too. It's something I'm very passionate about because I feel blessed that I fell into this career path.

    I am a mentor to a few of the younger dancers at work who I know can become SuperStrippers, and this is what we talk about all the time. The only problem with web boards is that you can't hear tone of voice. 242 thought I was picking on her, I wasn't...I just LOVE my job and all the wonderful things that have happened to me because I chose to NOT follow the conventional path of go to school, get a job, save and hope your pension will pay for retirement.

    Instead, as a stripper I have learned the sales process and capitalism. The strip club is a just a microcosm of economic theories: supply and demand, price theory, income theory.

    OK, Ive had trouble posting all day. Lets try it again.
    Rebecca Avalon







  13. #38
    sun child
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    I wish you could be my mentor! I am definitely in need of advice. Perhaps I could pay you a consulting fee?

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    I thought this was an interesting article. Of the 10 jobs profiled, only two did not require an advanced degree. The other 8 jobs required bachelor's plus masters degrees and STILL only paid $25 per hour.
    And herein lies a HUGE difference between the earnings potential of careers which require a doctorate (M.D., attorney, consultant) that pay $150k+ per year but also result in $150k+ worth of student loans, and careers which can be had with a bachelors' degree that pay $50k per year but result in $50k worth of student loans. Given the cost of 'necessities', in today's economy the $50k per year bachelors' degree jobs do NOT result in an above average standard of living. Given the potential competition from offshore graduates, in today's economy the $50k per year bachelors' degree jobs do NOT have a lot of stability ... either in terms of job security or in terms of future pay raises keeping up with inflation.

    Back to my earlier point about changing paradigms ... yes a career based on a doctorate degree is guaranteed to produce a 'positive' return on investment, both in terms of the 6+ years spent in college and in terms of tuition payments invested. But the same is not necessarily true anymore for careers based on a bachelor's degree.


    I will totally grant you that girls thinking about becoming 'SuperStrippers' absolutely MUST have the work ethic and financial discipline necessary to make the 'retire at 40' formula work. In the absence of that work ethic and/or that financial discipline, which BTW covers about 80% of all of the dancers that I have ever met, full time dancing is a sure fire formula for burnout + psychological scars + money problems (not to mention other possibilities i.e. drug problems, involvement with criminal types etc.). Without the work ethic and financial discipline, the odds favor a girl being 'forced' to retire from dancing after 10 years with little or no money saved, and with very dim prospects for her future.

  15. #40
    God/dess britneyireland's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Good. It works.

    242 Please respond specifically where you think me and melanie's calculations are off. I don't think it is infantile or low class to compare the per hour return of various professions. It's just math.

    Also 242 it sounds like you REALLY don't like your job. As the case with ANY job you don't like, it is difficult to see the silver lining if you are focused on the cloud. Please, another time....when you aren't in a defensive mood (because we're not picking on you) sit back and run the numbers.

    $65,000 after 28% taxes is $46,800 in take home pay. That equates to $900 per week for a 40 hour week. Most firms still make you pay a portion of your health insurance and a 401K is a Defined Contribution plan, not a Defined Benefit pension.

    We seem to always get back to the money vs "quality of life" issue too. As a stripper, I have a fantastic quality of life. I have time to spend with my family, to do the things that I love to do, and I'm not a wage slave to an employer. Stripping has enabled me the TIME during the day to research my real estate investments and learn how to trade stock options....things I wouldn't have been able to do if I was working 9-5.

    As for relationships, IMHO strippers who blame their job for their inability to make and maintain healthy relationships are just looking for a scapegoat. I think it's the drinking and partying afterhours that hurts their relationships. For years I have gone to work, danced stone cold sober, had a great time meeting very interesting people, then I come home with a wallet full of cold hard cash. I don't drink at work, I don't party with co-workers either inside or out of the club, and I pretty much live a boring stable life in suburbia with my husband of 3 years.

    To everyone reading this thread...ask yourself where you want to be in 5 years, 10 years and how you are going to get there. For me, stripping has been a CATAPULT to financial freedom. I'm on track to be a net-worth millionaire by age 35 and it's ALL because I chose to be a stripper.
    Rebecca Avalon







  16. #41
    Senior Member NikkiWest's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    I'll throw in a bit more than my two cents on the matter. I'm all for people choosing dancing for a career, if that is what they want. A dear friend of mine danced for 8 years, opened a small business with the money she earned, and has a wonderful life. It was a great option for her.

    For me, personally, I enjoy dancing but not as a main focus in my life. So, for numbers, let's try this for size. For my particular career interest, I need a masters. I danced for the last 2 1/2 years of school so I have $0 in student loans and about $15,000 left over in the bank at the current moment. I finished my bachelor's (4 years) and I'm starting my masters (another 2 years).

    Using Melonie's calculations, if I danced full time instead of going to school, after 6 years I would have a balance of $169.1k (which looks a lot nicer than my meager savings).

    After graduating, my starting salary for the field I'm interested in is about $50k with no experience (according to http://salary.monster/com ). With two years that goes up to about $60k. In 4 years, an average salary of about $75k. Let's say I was on average able to save $25k a year (less that first year, more that last year).

    (edited to add the following. I say $25k in savings even after taxes for three reasons: one, it's a convenient number and two, I'm used to living off of less than half my income, and three, it's just an approximation).

    Then if I understand Melonie's calculations correctly, that means I could have $108.3k (after 6 years of school and 4 of work) which is significantly less than the $304.7k I would have from dancing for 10 years but more than her calculation for someone trying to overcome student loans.

    The average salary for the career I'm pursuing after 6 years of experience is about $100k. The average for 10 years experience is $170k. If I choose to start my own business in my chosen field, that number could be considerably more.

    My point is, dancing is certainly a valid profession and anyone who wants to do it for a career, more power to them. But please do not be so dismissive of other options. You can make money at either dancing or a "straight" job if you have a plan, save, and are smart about it.
    Last edited by NikkiWest; 10-15-2007 at 12:25 AM.

  17. #42
    sun child
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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    ^ Just curious, what career are you pursuing?

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Nikki, your personal example is a hybrid situation since you have in fact danced part time for the years while attending college, and in doing so have defrayed the cost of your tuition as well as the 'negative' interest charges on that borrowed money. This is a far better situation from a financial standpoint than graduating with a huge student loan burden !!!!

    Also, your personal example involves an advanced degree i.e. a Masters ... which significantly adds to the 'non-earning' years as well as to the student loan mountain. Again you have/will sidestep these negatives by dancing while studying for your Masters.

    I would also add that a profession based on a Master's degree which pays an average of $170k per year after 10 years of experience is also very atypical. Professions based on Masters degrees in most fields plateau at around $120k per year, and this is dropping as more and more H1B immigrants with Master's degrees enter the country who are willing to work for less. Expanding on Britney's theme, a person in America earning a pre-tax $120k per year is a prime target for income taxes / alternative minimum tax / future tax surcharges on the 'rich' (per senate Democrat proposal an additional 4% surcharge on those earning over $100k). So 10 years from now it's highly likely that the $120k gross income will actually correspond to a $75k after-tax income - which makes the 'payback' equation for someone who has attended college full time and borrowed a mountain of tuition money to obtain their Masters' degree fairly dicey.

    Admittedly the 'stigma' attached to being a full time dancer carries its own 'cost', but for the most part that 'cost' is non-monetary. Admittedly the 'respect' attached to being a professional in a respected field with a Masters' degree and/or Doctorate constitutes a huge (but also non-monetary) plus as well. But most of the previous discussion in this thread dealt with careers based on Bachelor's degrees, which carry far lower salaries, and which do not carry anywhere near the level of 'respect' that the advanced degrees do.


    For me, stripping has been a CATAPULT to financial freedom. I'm on track to be a net-worth millionaire by age 35 and it's ALL because I chose to be a stripper.
    well, I didn't make it by age 35, but that's only because I got off to a 'late start' !!!

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland View Post
    $65,000 dollars a year is LESS than $200 a night.

    So, you are telling me that you HONESTLY think that you can make MORE money at a straight job...after they take out taxes...and after you can't deduct things like mileage on your car, computer, internet access, and all the other perks that come with being a busines owner?
    242 never said she could make more money at a straight job. She said she can make more money as a LAWYER.

    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland
    I completely disagree. I finished my bachelor's degree and worked in the "real world" before I ever started dancing. I used dancing to pay for my master's degree. I have two pieces of paper framed on my wall that are COST ME $130,000 in tuition to get a job that pays $35,000 a year.
    242's entry-level job would pay $65,000 and gone up. She would have had more earning potential than you would have.

    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland
    I spend $5,000 on my boobs, work 20 hours a week and make WELL over $100,000 a year IN CASH!!!
    That doesn't jibe with your assertion that you average $500 a shift for four shifts. That's $2,000 a week. Assuming you pay your taxes and take some vacation time you are under $100,000.

    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland
    You didn't waste your TIME dancing. You WASTED your MONEY from dancing if you didn't take a portion of that $500/nite and put it into a SEP-IRA, buy a house, establish an emergency fund, and basically do all the things that you SHOULD be doing for a nest egg regardless of what the source of your cashflow is.
    Re-read. She never said she made an average of $500 a shift--you did. She said she had an occasional $500 night. Her average was lower than yours and I'd venture a guess that most dancer's daily average is lower than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland
    Don't blame the industry, it was YOUR decision to waste your earnings instead of making responsible investment decisions. Dancing has been a CATAPULT to financial freedom for me. I wish I had NOT wasted my time dancing part-time through graduate school. I could have been a millionaire much earlier if I had worked full time and been in the market during the late 90s.
    242 never blamed the industry for anything. She didn't waste her money, she invested it in her education. BTW, your last quote was most certainly a personal attack suggesting she showed a lack of responsibility. To say that you were speaking in general and no one was attacking her is simply bullshit.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland View Post
    Also, check the median salary of someone with an MBA: I believe it's around $80K. Still better off stripping.


    Not really. You aren't comparing the median salary of an MBA with the median salary of a stripper. You're comparing the medain of an MBA with the highest earnings of a stripper. Try comparing the highest earnings of an MBA with the highest of a stripper. Millions a year versus 1 or 2 hundred thousand. No comparison! For those who have the ability to excell at a career requiring that there's no comparison. And they can do their job for 50 years not the mere 10-15 years most girls could theoretically perform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    This is why I usually recommend that 'professional' girls either work full time as dancers to maximize their 'prime' earnings potential, or devote 100% of their efforts to (preparing for) another profession. The dancing 1-2 nights a week part time thing makes for comfortably 'treading water', but it doesn't really move you to where you want to go very quickly !
    I think that's very sound advice. Stripping is not the end-all-be-all financially so whether you choose to dance full time or part time the most important thing is to devote yourself fully to preparing for your future. 242, you've done that so no time has really been wasted.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Exactly how I feel, and that's after lining up professional degrees, and actually doing quite well in endeavours somewhat related to them.

    The only reason I'm doing reasonably well (for however long it lasts - always wondering what's next) is because I made a bit of a business out of it. Looking for a salaried-type job, it would have been a disaster. The thing is, I could have probably done something similar without the degrees. I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing, but I could have made a similar business out of what I did pre-degrees, so I'd be up a few years of income and tuition fees paid out. Dancing would lead to similar results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ultimately, this whole discussion gravitates back to the long time 'paradigm' which says that if a person gets a college education that they will be 'set for life'. Now two decades ago this was undeniably true. 10 years ago it was arguably true. However, today there is a great deal of evidence showing that it is no longer in fact true.

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    another thing to keep in mind is that the money that is being expected to be earnt in the future by the "educated" is going to be worth a lot less than money earnt right now... TODAY. With inflation at breakneck levels, earning the money right now is the way to go. You can then do useful stuff with it... like BUYING GOLD (or silver or platinum or resource/commodity based derivatives), which will protect you from the inevitable (hyper)inflation.


    And another salient point is that stripping over say 20 years results in much "smoother" income over time than studying 6 or 7 years, starting on low salary, then building up to 100k or 170k after 10 or 15 years. IT CAN'T BE EMPHASIZED STRONGLY ENOUGH that earning 100k over a number of years is heaps heaps heaps better than zero (or negative to start with) and then heaps later. Even the educated girl achieves the same average earnings after a while, all her income is clumped into the latter years. Which of course means that due to the progressive nature of the tax system, paying a shitload more tax.



    And a related point to the tax and inflation I brought up, it's almost certain that taxes are going to be higher in the future. Therefore, u wanna earn that money right now... fast! I think all of us here can agree that there's only one direction taxes are heading, and that's up. I mean, they've been going nowhere but up for the last however many years, and there's no reason to suppose the trend is suddenly going to reverse itself.


    One could say Melone and Britney's position is short sighted. But today's economic and political environment, particularly in the US, almost demands that one be short-sighted.

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    stripping doesn't produce 'smoother' income. if you factor in the time spent learning how to hustle most efficiently, you are back at 1-5 years time spent refining the hustle to maximise income, with lower income in those early years, SAME as those other jobs. yes, ONE TO FIVE YEARS OF DANCING TIME. stripping is on a par with ANY high-pressure sales job in this respect. to make CONSISTENTLY HIGH money, it takes time and practice, although of course a stripper can make occasional good money inconsistently (which is of course the stripper-norm).

    my biggest thing re: stripping is simply-- how can you guarantee you can strip in a club environment where you will be able to earn 500-1000 per shift worked consistently for a ten year period? with all the laws that get passed and with clubs shutting down, and just all the random BS that attaches around the stripping industry (and creeping contact levels), it is beyond risky at this point in time to assume that a dancer can make 100k per year for TEN YEARS. this year, ok. maybe next year. but trying to project out into the stripping-world of 2017 is a very bold thing to suggest, especially when overall income in the industry can demonstrably be shown to have dropped. individual strippers earning more as they learn better hustling skills does not change the bigger picture.

    hell, last year(!), i worked at a club where it was totally possible to regularly make 3k a week (in 3-4 shifts, no less). but then legal trouble made the rounds of the city a few months later and it became a club where you could only make that PER MONTH. it's still not back to the 3k per week in 3 shifts level.

    if there were no internet, no girls gone wild, and so forth, that would be one thing.

    stripper earnings are more prone to fluctuation because male desire is, among all the other reasons. earning all one can in say 5 years is a reasonable projection frame, but past that, there just may not be enough clubs offering the combination of elements that will product consistent super!stripper income. and yes, in a five year projection, you could be spending it all on a learning curve and never really earn consistently at the level you keep aiming for. it happens. sales is hard and never guaranteed.

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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    Optimist brought up some very good points. I only have a sec before I have to bolt out the door.

    I do use my personal earnings for comparison. The median salary of stippers may (or may not) be less than mine. But many times I stressed that IF a dancer CHOOSES to make dancing a full time career, works at a high end club, develops her base clientele, approaches this as seriously as she would any sales job and consistently applies the same methodical sales method for 10-20 years (Don't laugh, one of the top earners in my club is 42 and has been dancing since 1979) she will fare better than someone who makes $65K per year.

    I'm not touching the lifestyle choice aspect of it anymore because obviously dancing as a full time career is a personal choice yada yada. I'm strictly looking at it from the financial perspective. Any stripper that doesn't make $500 a night on a consistent basis probably should look for other gainful employment for the future.

    Also, just another thought: What if we compare the median stripper to the median attorney. Realistically if a dancer can't grab life by the balls and maximize her earnings at a cashflow job that doesn't issue 1099's, what are the chances that she is going to be the highest paid attorney, or doctor, or fund manager?
    Rebecca Avalon







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    Default Re: I would be richer if I never danced

    waitaminute, britney...this top earner has been dancing since she was aged 14 (maybe 13)?

    not to mention that dancing in the 70s, 80s and 90s was RADICALLY different than stripping in the last 5 or 6 years.

    if a dancer can get hired at a high end club and if the base clientele the dancer attracts will spend money on her in amounts large enough to produce 500 per night consistent earnings and if nothing happens to such clubs in her area(s) of willing travel for decades, then 500 a night consistently may happen. that's a lot of ifs that the stripper has no control over, and it is also easily provable that NOT every 'classy, attractive, articulate, well-kept' dancer is allowed to work at clubs with very high earnings potential, no matter how professionally she conducts her business.

    again, strictly from a financial perspective, the type of stripper who can work high-end sales can go into non-stripping sales industries and make twice as much, and for years longer, and have MORE net income.

    the top professional-classes workers wildly outearn strippers on a yearly and long-term basis, if you compare the highest end to the highest end. if any of them save the money (and even there, some live frugally and have a high quality of life), they come out way ahead of the stripper.

    fine-dining waitstaff make 300-500 per shift consistently (shifts being stripperlength, about 5-6 hours), and if any save, they too come out ahead of the stripper, if only because they can sustain the income for decades. people don't line up to shut down restaurants. you don't have 'travel to work' at a place where the customers will tip enough to get you 500+ a shift (more like 800+ minimum to offset travel expenses).

    the money that can be made from stripping or with stripping involves too many factors for anyone to be honest in stating that it's a reliable or viable path to 'wealth'.

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