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Thread: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

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    Default Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Just read someone who suggested this on another mb a few hours ago. He wants everyone's social security numbers placed in "lottery," with the "winner" having to serve at least one term as U.S. President.

    He wrote about being tired of the choices he is always offered, along with Giuliani, Gore, Hillary, McCain, Obama, Romney, Kucinich, etc., all being members of the "ruling class." Since they belong to the "ruling class" he doesn't feel any of them, Republican or Democrat, have the slightest idea of the problems/challenges average people in the U.S. face.

    He did mention several things which would automatically disqualify you from serving: past felonies, severe illness which would not permit you to serve, mental instability as certified by a psychiatrist/psychologist, and a couple others I don't recall offhand.

    He also wants a stipend for the new president for food and housing. It's an intriguing idea, but I don't know how you implement it. And if it should be applied to the entire Congress as well.
    Last edited by PhaedrusZ; 10-13-2007 at 06:46 PM. Reason: paragraphing/quote marks

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Umm Hell No!
    and could you edit that a bit, it is hard to read with the failed quotations.

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Randomacracy would be a lot better than the current system where the worst rise to the top.

    My vote would be to eliminate the office altogether.
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    ^^^Sh0t, do you mean eliminate the Presidency and still have an executive branch, or get rid of the exec. branch and simply have legislative/judicial? I'm interested to know whta you'd want in place of a presidency... or would you want a figurehead (not head of state) to declare legislative decisions but who had no real power?

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    This is SO off topic, but the lizlizliz quote in Embyr's sig made me lawl.


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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    I don't know about random folks, but I do think it should be easier for third party and independent candidates to get known and on the ballot.

    The major parties have set up a lot of barriers to entry.

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    this whole premise is a testament to the effectiveness of mainstream propaganda in obscuring where the REAL power lies in America (and for that matter most of the rest of the world).

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    I don't agree w/ doing that.

    I do however think that it sucks that it takes tons of money to run for president, so that no average person (w/ good ideas & plans for the country) could be elected.

    Forgetting things we shouldn't remember is why god invented amnesia and Tequila. - Samantha Who

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    President, no. Too singular and too high-profile of a position.

    But Congress, better argument. Yeah, you'd get some wackos, but you get 400-plus citizens in there and the median mentality will be fairly reasonable. Provide mentors to give them parliamentary structure. A citizen legislature. It'd be interesting.

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Term Limits. Demand them.

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    We did in Colorado, and I was in favor. After looking at the results, I don't believe it's worked very well.

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    We did in Colorado, and I was in favor. After looking at the results, I don't believe it's worked very well.
    In the immediate, sure no change. Over the long term you will not see the likes of Strom Thurmond or that Senator (?) from west virginia um Bird I think. The King of Pork.

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    In the immediate, sure no change. Over the long term you will not see the likes of Strom Thurmond or that Senator (?) from west virginia um Bird I think. The King of Pork.
    True. Neither would you see an Everett Dirksen or a Joe Lieberman. At the statehouse level in Colorado, you see leadership that doesn't have a chance to mature. At the county level, you see clerks, election officials, and DAs who do a very good job but get forced out anyway.

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    True. Neither would you see an Everett Dirksen or a Joe Lieberman. At the statehouse level in Colorado, you see leadership that doesn't have a chance to mature. At the county level, you see clerks, election officials, and DAs who do a very good job but get forced out anyway.
    I haven't looked into it, but is there a job overlap? does the outgoing train the incoming for a set period? If not, we used what was called the "pass on book" when I was in the Army. It is like a journal where important events, points of contact, questions and answers are journaled daily. Your successor could read up on that, if a hand over was not possible. Wait that is probably to common sense and efficient for government bureacracy. Forget I mentioned it.

    Honestly even with the inefficient bumbling about that can be prevented anyway; the overall reduction in ingrained, graft that comes with lifelong political animals cannot help but, be better. ( <<<<run on, sorry)

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    and could you edit that a bit, it is hard to read with the failed quotations.
    Thanks that is much better!

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Embyr View Post
    ^^^Sh0t, do you mean eliminate the Presidency and still have an executive branch, or get rid of the exec. branch and simply have legislative/judicial? I'm interested to know whta you'd want in place of a presidency... or would you want a figurehead (not head of state) to declare legislative decisions but who had no real power?
    None of the above, of course, as I am an anarcho-libertarian.

    But assuming you had to have a state, the current model is a pretty bad one, if the goal is personal liberty. Working as intended.

    The President was basically conceived as a sort of quasi-monarch, which it has certainly become.

    I'd rather California just secede.
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    Term Limits. Demand them.
    No way!

    Term limits actually make things much worse. Term limits make politicians, who are already short-term focused, even MORE short term focused. If a politician knows he only has 4 or 8 years to loot, he will loot as fast as possible before the next guy gets in. If a President could stay in office perpetually, he would have far less pressure to be as destructive.

    Monarchs, secure for the most part in their "office" were generally a lot more liberal(old meaning) than presidents, prime ministers, etc.

    King George III wasn't that bad of a guy. He taxed Americans less than Washington did.
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  18. #18
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh0t View Post
    But assuming you had to have a state, the current model is a pretty bad one
    It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government - except all the others that have been tried."
    (Winston Churchill)

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    And I have to disagree with mr Churchill. He alone gives plenty of evidence of why democracy is pretty bad. He was a democrat afterall and one of the most evil men to walk the Earth.

    Try and think for yourself a little bit.

    Churchill, a war LOVER, instigated two world wars, created the ever-surviving mess called Iraq, ordered gas attacks on civilian populations, terror bombing campaigns, and his war socialism changed Britain from the Britain of Cobden to the nanny state it currently is.

    Democracy certainly is not better than the minarchist Republic the US once was. Expanding democracy is what is basically ruining America. None of the founders endorsed democracy and Plato CLEARLY forsaw the problems. Among the founders, we have some bad guys, but none of them nearly as bad as Churchill and even the dumb ones like Washington were many times smarter and more cultured than Mr. Winston.

    Let's provide another quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison
    "[D]emocracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
    Madison is one of my least favorite of the Founders, but stands mightily over Churchill.
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  20. #20
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    And yet Mr. Madison appears to have been wrong. If you consider the United States as being a democracy (I do, and you don't for its whole term), then this democracy is one of the longest-lived governments on the planet today.

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    No, he's been pretty right. We're not that old in the span of history.

    The 20th century alone saw many democracies rise and fall.

    But remember, the whole point is the United States was not conceived as a democracy to begin with.

    I'd say we became more democracy than not in 1913 with the direction election of Senators. By the originators of the form of government we do have, it is not a democracy.
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Don't take any of the above to be an endorsement of our Constitution of course.

    The Constitution was the PATRIOT ACT of its day and is a major source of our problems.
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  23. #23
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh0t View Post
    We're not that old in the span of history.
    I didn't say that. It's not old in geologic years, either.

    I said one of the longest-lived governments. Not many other countries have their current form of government stretch back to 1787. We can bitch about the U.S. Constitution (well, I don't, actually), but it afforded many more rights than were available from other reigning nations of the day.

    (Note to readers: Largely theoretical and weighted arguments of comparative government systems. Sorry, folks. This might end up taking a while.)

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    please, no. please don't make the president random. there's always going to be something that someone (or everyone) hates about our president, whoever s/he may be. but picking a random american who might be supremely racist, or schizo, or a flipping child molester, or a convicted felon... i mean, you could get someone good, but no. just no.

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    Default Re: Should the U.S. President be drafted from "average folks"?

    You can get all of that from the current process. We've had plenty of racist presidents for sure.

    There are more "good" people than child molesters and the like in the population, so the chances are pretty good we'd get a normal person. And unlike professional politicians, that normal personwill probably not be an expert liar and charlatan, etc.

    I say if you are going to bother have a president, why not Randomacracy.

    Actually, the Constitution represented a removal of rights and freedom. The body of the constitution is all about government power. We would be more free today if it hadn't been ratified. The anti-federalists foresaw all of this, of course, and certainly warned us.

    Had I been around in the 1780s,I would have been a very vocal OPPONENT of the Constitution.
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