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Thread: if you get busted for LD....?

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    Default if you get busted for LD....?

    Can someone clear this for me?

    If you get busted for contact LD. and you are charged with "common bawdy house - charge".

    you have choice to plea guilty or not.
    A while ago a dancer i knew got in this situation and she was offered to plea guilty - in that senario she would have to attend this 'coretion workshop' for exotic dancers - and or prostitutes.
    Did anybody hear about this one? what is it about?
    "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein



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    Default Re: if you get busted for LD....?

    it's been the result of a long evolution of laws, busts, and court decisions ...



    As your comment points out, under Ontario laws at least there is no legal distinction between being busted for giving a full contact lap dance and being busted for giving a HJ, BJ or FS sex to a club customer. However, as the link points out, most local Ontario police have adopted the attitude that they have far more serious crimes to worry about such that club busts only occur in the most blatant situations. As a result, there is essentially no difference in bust risk for Ontario dancers providing full contact lap dances as for Ontario dancers providing HJ, BJ or FS. Canadian law and law enforcement are several years ahead of most US state / local laws in this regard - i.e. that dancers are basically working in a technically illegal environment on a nightly basis in order to earn decent money, with the understanding that any actual bust risk is almost non-existant.

    Also as a result, with certain local exceptions, HJ, BJ and FS are readily available in Ontario clubs since they present zero additional criminal penalties compared to contact lap dances but also present a higher dancer earnings potential. This is probably better viewed from the other direction, that with certain exceptions an Ontario dancer who chooses not to offer HJ, BJ and FS is likely to have a disappointing earnings potential since it is highly probable that other dancers in the same club will be offering such 'extras'.

    As to the actual results of being busted for a contact lap dance or HJ / BJ / FS in Ontario, for both dancers and prostitutes the 'crime' centers around profiting from acts of prostitution (i.e. prostitution itself is technically not illegal in Canada, only benefiting financially from acts of prostitution is illegal). It is also illegal to 'communicate for the purpose of prostitution' i.e. a dancer and club customer discussing her menu and prices inside the club. Ironically, it is NOT illegal for a Canadian escort to discuss her menu and prices with a client in the privacy of a hotel room (which is NOT the case with American escorts)!!!



    As to a Toronto Court / Corrections Dep't program requirement that convicted offenders must attend a 'Prostitute Workshop' as part of their sentence, I have no specific knowledge of such a program. However, it is logical to assume that the judge can mandate attendance at such a 'Prostitute Workshop' as part of the sentencing procedure in the same way the Judge can mandate attendance at other workshops for convicted Drunk Drivers, convicted Drug Users etc.

    I don't know the exact details in regard to criminal penalties for a Bawdy House bust or a 'Communicating for the purposes of Prostitution' bust in Ontario. However, based on your own comments and possible similarities to US courts, the following would appear to be the case. When a dancer is actually busted, if she chooses to plead innocent this leads to a court appearance / trial procedure. If she is in turn found innocent, she walks and her criminal record is erased. However if she is in turn found guilty, the judge can impose the full measure of the law (which can involve heavy fines and/or jail time in most US states ... not sure about Ontario). In addition, going to court / trial involves the dancer paying for an attorney. Thus a dancer pleading innocent after being busted involves the dancer having to pay money up front plus taking the risk of havint to pay more money in fines plus some potential jail time if convicted after trial / court.

    Where the court system is crowded, or where the cops / judges really don't want to get involved with court time, cop appearances in court etc. the prosecutor will often offer a 'plea bargain' deal. In exchange for a voluntary guilty plea by the busted dancer, the prosecutor will agree to a 'light' sentence. In the USA this typically involves paying a $500 or $1000 fine with zero jail time. In Toronto this might involve a fine along with a mandate that the busted dancer attend a 'Prostitute Workshop'. Generally, club owners will provide legal representation for busted dancers free of charge plus club owners will pay the dancer's fine - PROVIDING that the dancer agrees to accept the 'plea bargain' deal - meaning that by agreeing to the deal the dancer escapes jail time, meaning that the dancer escapes paying any money out of her own pocket, and meaning that the dancer can be right back to work the next night. In the case of Toronto, it would appear that mandatory attendance at a 'Prostitution Workshop' will be thrown into the plea bargain deal.

    Dancers need to be extremely aware that, upon entering into such a plea bargain arrangement, the dancer typically has a guilty plea recorded on her permanent record just as if she were actually found guilty as the result of a court trial. This de-facto guilty plea also causes the busted dancer to give up her future right to appeal. Perhaps most seriously, when a dancer voluntarily enters into a plea bargain agreement it can also affect her future right to bring court action to have her permanent record expunged. If the busted dancer plans on working as a dancer for years this probably means nothing ... since having one 'prostitution' bust or half a dozen 'prostitution' busts on her permanent record makes no practical difference.

    But big problems can potentially develop if specific cities establish dancer's licensing programs, where a 'prostitution' bust on a dancer's permanent record will prevent her from being issued a dancer's license thus preventing her from working in that city. This is a potential problem in Toronto since that city does require dancer's licenses - probably meaning that a busted Toronto dancer who accepts a plea bargain is at risk of having her dancer's license revoked and/or not renewed when it expires. This typically isn't a huge deal though since there is always another club located beyond the city limits where dancer's licenses are not required.

    However, if the dancer is preparing for a 'straight' career, having a 'sex crime' conviction listed on her permanent record may have adverse effects with potential future employers. This is particularly true in areas of the US and Canada where there is no legal distinction that the girl was busted for giving a full contact lap dance versus busted for giving a HJ, BJ or FS. When potential future employers see the charge on the girl's permanent record they will simply assume the worst. Typically, any careers which involve the 'public trust' i.e. teaching, social service, health care, banking, law enforcement, gov't / politics, etc. take a very dim view of 'sex crimes'.

    Additionally, in the US at least, localities are increasingly enacting 'sex crime reporting laws'. While intended to control really serious perverts, it's also possible that a 'prostitution' bust or plea bargain will get the dancer's name added to the 'sex offender list'. These laws require that 'sex offenders' report their address to local authorities. These laws sometimes require that 'sex offenders' knock on all of their neighbor's doors an announce the fact that they were guilty of committing a 'sex crime'. These laws sometimes require that 'sex offenders' NOT live at an address that is x distance from a school / playground / park ... or require that they must move from their current address if it is too close to a school / playground / park. Particularly in cases where the law does not distinguish between a dancer being busted for giving a contact lap dance versus being busted for blatant acts of prostitution in terms of the black mark on her permanent record, girls who accept plea bargains today risk having their lives complicated by existing and future 'sex offender' laws. It would appear though that Ontario presently excludes 'Bawdy House / prostitution' busts from registration on their provincial 'sex offender' list, but this is not necessarily the case in US states and not necessarily the case in specific cities in the US or Canada.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-03-2007 at 08:18 AM.

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    Default Re: if you get busted for LD....?

    Wow, Melonie,

    I think i said it before, again, your knowledge is extensive. Thank you for such indept answer!

    Additionally, in the US at least, localities are increasingly enacting 'sex crime reporting laws'. While intended to control really serious perverts, it's also possible that a 'prostitution' bust or plea bargain will get the dancer's name added to the 'sex offender list'
    This is a outrage. but interesting senario, which i hope non of us had to face. I don't think that it could happened here in Ontario. (well you never know)

    The program i was talking about is - or was called Streetlight workers.
    The dancer i mention didn't do the bargain to 'plea guilty', but she had to PAY! it was the club's laywer, who did nothing, so she hired another laywer, who did nothing as well, then finally she had to hire criminal laywer that costed her 3-4 thousand$ he finally made her 'clean' of all the charges. And she was out lot of money...when you add it all up, 2 laywers, bail, time last at work, it's terrible.
    And she couldn't work anylonger in the club she got busted. ironically.
    well anyway, it was a girl i talked in the change room, and i just thought what could-be if she took the bargain of 'gulity' and attend this
    Streetlight program.
    was there like some "conservative, militant feminist" who is trying to make you a 'good girl' . what would they do?
    "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein



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    Default Re: if you get busted for LD....?

    ^^^ in case you hadn't guessed, my own knowledge of LD busts comes from way too much experience with bogus busts of my own. Like the dancer you mention, I also never agreed to a plea bargain, and I also wound up paying out the a$$ for my own competent criminal attorney representation in order to eventually walk away with all charges dropped and a 'clean' record. The last time it happened I had to go all the way to the appellate level to finally be found innocent, and it wound up costing me over $10,000 in legal fees and other expenses !!! The increasing probability of being bogusly busted as part of a club sweep is one of the reasons that I decided to retire from live dancing.


    well anyway, it was a girl i talked in the change room, and i just thought what could-be if she took the bargain of 'gulity' and attend this
    Streetlight program.
    was there like some "conservative, militant feminist" who is trying to make you a 'good girl' . what would they do?
    Who the hell knows what sort of organizations are behind such programs, or what their agendas are. Maybe they just want to fawn over the 'poor victims'. Maybe they want to pump the girls for incriminating info re their clubs. Maybe they want to indoctrinate girls to the risk of STD's etc. as if they are brainless hookers. Maybe they want to thump bibles. All in all, attending such a program is probably harmless, and probably only involves wasting a few hours in a classroom. I would be much more concerned about the potential side effects of entering a de-facto 'guilty' plea by accepting a plea bargain. But then again, if a girl is busted and doesn't have several thousand dollars set aside to cover competent legal representation, turning down the plea bargain and losing in open court can also result in a conviction and black mark on her permanent record (as well as steeper fines and/or a week behind bars).

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