touching dancers the right way, and the wrong way

[skeets45]

I am a long time patron of clubs in the Seattle area, but often visit places around the country when on trips. Seattle used to be lots of fun (really want to know where to go for good sexy dances these days, not skanky or air), but I have been reading this list lately and I have concluded that there are different kinds of us customers, those who grope and those who touch. I was having this very conversation with some dancers in Philly last week, and we seemed to be on the same page.

I went to two clubs, Cheerleaders and Club Risque on the Deleware. Both were good and I would tell you that I would go back to both, they had good laps, though Kim at Risque was one of the sexier women I have had dance for me.

Anyway, I am not a big time grabber, but I do like to use my hands on women, hips, ass, back, legs...Not that I don't mind grabbing some tits or kitty, but I want a little invite first ...maybe I am too "nice" but if I am going there I want the dancer to guide me a little so I know it is OK. For me, touching adds to to experience. Still, how do you know it is OK to touch and how far can you go in good taste?

over the years I have had dancers that really get into it, a few that kissed me and wow was that a turn on during a dance, but how far is too far?

[Svelt]

Talk to the dancer about it. They will be very candid about it, if they aren't bail.

Rick's or Honey's two way contact is the norm, if the kitty is off limits they will say so before the dance.

Vu's are much tamer, and the girls will talk to you about it if asked and you aren't a total creep.

Can't speak for Sugars, or the other clubs but Seattle is wide open.

[mr_punk]

Still, how do you know it is OK to touch and how far can you go in good taste?

go to high contact clubs and start groping. it's a lot simpler than playing "guess my mileage" with a stripper.

[sun child]

When I worked at high mileage clubs I would get the $ upfront and if a guy just "started groping" he'd be out on his ass. ^ Not the best advice, mr_punk. I'd be much more accomodating if you started out with some gentle touches.

[mr_punk]

ROTFLMO...oh, gimme a effing break here. does this look like CC? thrown out for what? he grabbed yer tits? uhhh..it's a high mileage club, cupcake. LOL..what's next? are you going to tell customers not to wear sweatpants?

[lestat1]

^^^ Huh. If the club rules are X-level of contact, I go with that. I stopped asking "What are your rules?" at the start of a dance because:
(1) I read on here that that's a bad question to ask.
(2) I rarely got a straight-forward answer.

[sun child]

ROTFLMO...oh, gimme a effing break here. does this look like CC? thrown out for what? he grabbed yer tits? uhhh..it's a high mileage club, cupcake. LOL..what's next? are you going to tell customers not to wear sweatpants?

Not sure what CC is.

I'm an independent contractor and I enforce my own boundaries. What's going on in the club has nothing to do with ME. I still make my money and guys who just start groping get kicked out. I get paid upfront. The aforementioned high mileage club was high mileage, but they still had rules which I followed. Girls were getting away with more, but other girls were being sent home for letting guys grab their boobs. Why would I risk my job to satisfy a customer who I'm already straddling and being VERY nice to? I was ahead of the pack there in terms of earnings almost every single night.

The OP had a legitimate question - you just answered with "just start groping." I said it was bad advice and offered my suggestion - gentle touching. I've had many customers get AWESOME dances because the weren't Mr. Grab Ass. It really does heighten the experience if you follow the rules and act in a gentle manner. No one likes to have to say "Bad dog."

I would totally laugh and point at someone wearing sweatpants in a strip club. Good thing there are dress codes.

[Bob_Loblaw]

I believe Punk was referring to Customer Conversation

[mr_punk]

The aforementioned high mileage club was high mileage, but they still had rules which I followed. Girls were getting away with more, but other girls were being sent home for letting guys grab their boobs.

really? honey, if customers can't grab the stripper's tits. i hate to bust your bubble, but that's not a high mileage club. it's a lame club and not the kind of club i'm talking about.

I was ahead of the pack there in terms of earnings almost every single night.

LOL...this isn't SW, sister. nobody cares.

The OP had a legitimate question - you just answered with "just start groping." I said it was bad advice and offered my suggestion - gentle touching.

i also advised him to go to a high contact club. thus, he wouldn't have fuck around and play 20 questions which is exactly what would happen at your club.

[sun child]

Wow - have fun being a loser.

[Wolverine]

Goodness gracious. I blame Shot for posts like these. Pink Side Males...great!

I agree with Mr. P...do some research, go to a high mileage club and never have to worry about anything again.

[mr_punk]

Wow - have fun being a loser.

ouch..that hurts. i feel suitably sheepish and chagrined. henceforth, i promise to change my ways.

I'd be much more accomodating if you started out with some gentle touches.

oh, that's just great! now, sex workers want foreplay from customers in addition to dressing in the latest fashions. sheesh..what next? you want rose petals, soft candlelights and a CD of Barry Manilow Greatest Hits too? oops, sorry. i guess this turning over a new leaf thing will have to wait.

[Jenny]

^^^
Well yeah. Except not the Manilow. Or the candles. Or the roses. I mean, come on. We're sex workers. Not machines. If you want machines, they make those, you know. Remove the pesky human component.

[mr_punk]

Well yeah. Except not the Manilow. Or the candles. Or the roses.

are you still here? did this count as a laugh or something? seriously, i think it's great you don't need foreplay while you're working. nonetheless, perhaps you could explain what's up with these sex workers who not only want to be paid for their time, but also make demands as if they're on a frigging date? WTF!?

I mean, come on. We're sex workers. Not machines. If you want machines, they make those, you know. Remove the pesky human component.

i'm not saying they're machines. i'm saying they're "sex workers" with emphasis on the word "work". it's not a night out on the town for you. ironically, you girls say the same thing while you're beating down your biatches in CC and the guys nod their heads. i say the same thing and you respond with, "mr_punk, you can't say this about girls. they're not machines". LOL...how convenient.

[xdamage]

Not sure what CC is.

What Bob wrote. CC means the Customer Conversation threads on the pink (aka primary) website. The essence of it is that there is some cross over between threads in CC and over here, but CC is usually much more watered down, carefully written posts, to avoid offending the dancers. While over here, they tend to be quite the opposite.

[Jenny]

are you still here?

Yep.

did this count as a laugh or something?

Yep.

seriously, i think it's great you don't need foreplay while you're working. nonetheless, perhaps you could explain what's up with these sex workers who not only want to be paid for their time, but also make demands as if they're on a frigging date? WTF!?

Okay, here's the thing. You are fundamentally disconnected to the human race. (And yes, that was disconnected to and not disconnected from. Your disconnection is so far advanced that you've circled back round to a "to"). I think customers should act like they are interacting with real live human beings - not like they are on a date. Now you might be wondering what this has to do with your fundamental disconnect to the human race - in a nutshell, customers generally enjoy being treated like a human being. Like yes, they pay for it, etc. etc. but look around, even down here - you are the ONLY customer who would be as connected with a lapdance in which the dancer drummed her fingernails while grinding as one where the dancer enjoyed/did a reasonable imitation of enjoyment. I mean, there is a reason guys go out to strip clubs rather than staying home and masturbating. It is because of the human interaction. Now - I obviously don't think that because girls enjoy/imitate enjoyment that they are acting like they are on a date. They still expect to be paid, they expect the customer to understand the nature of the relationship (let's assume sane, reasonably intelligent customers here). However they know that the customers expects to be treated a certain way - one that involves not drumming one's fingernails while grinding him to orgasm (or whatever activity you want to insert - it is really not relevant). Does this mean the customer the customer thinks he is on a date? No. It means he wants to be treated like a human, and not an ATM the capacity to reach orgasm. I know it's a miraculous idea to you, but two parties can exchange money and... still be nice, courteous and respectful to each other. Weird, huh? I think the fact that you regard a lapdance as a form of jerking off rather than an interaction colours your perception of these comments.

i'm not saying they're machines. i'm saying they're "sex workers" with emphasis on the word "work". it's not a night out on the town for you.

Trust me. I know. And yet. I like people to be nice and polite and treat me like a human being ALL THE TIME, not just when I'm on a date. I know! Damn feminists. So fucking demanding.

"mr_punk, you can't say this about girls. they're not machines". LOL...how convenient.

Well... technically, I can't stop you from saying it. We've established that I'm not the punk police (and if I am - am I ever ineffective). I'm just pointing out that you're... you know. Wrong.

In terms of the initial question... we all know I'm a big fan of asking. Simple, accurate, to the point and no guess work or estimation involved. It might make some guys feel pretty uncouth, but at least you know.

[Katrine]

Wow - have fun being a loser.

Welcome to the blue side. You will need to don your big girl panties while down here.

[Phil-W]

..I mean, there is a reason guys go out to strip clubs rather than staying home and masturbating. It is because of the human interaction. Now - I obviously don't think that because girls enjoy/imitate enjoyment that they are acting like they are on a date. They still expect to be paid, they expect the customer to understand the nature of the relationship (let's assume sane, reasonably intelligent customers here). However they know that the customers expects to be treated a certain way - one that involves not drumming one's fingernails while grinding him to orgasm (or whatever activity you want to insert - it is really not relevant). Does this mean the customer the customer thinks he is on a date? No. It means he wants to be treated like a human, and not an ATM [with] the capacity to reach orgasm...

A slightly utopian view here, Jenny?

I grant you it's nice to go into a venue and find both sides behaving like mature adults - which can indeed happen.

In a lot of cases though, I don't think dancers rush to explain that it's predominantly a commercial transaction - hence the reams of advice in Hustle Hut above on how to extract money out of customers in the most efficient way. (And telling customers it's primarily about the money is not a hot suggestion there).

I think the great majority of dancers are pragmetic enough to realise that explaining to guys that they're just earning a living is not conductive to having a good night. Instead, they come out with alternative scenarios - good old SS.

And I think a very substantial percentage of customers don't want to acknowledge that a dancer's primary motivation is financial. Instead they rationalise it away by thinking in *their* case the dancer is getting turned on by what they do, likes them as a person etc.

It's always struck me as a bit of an "Emperor's New Clothes" situation - the dancers won't point out customers aren't seeing things totally realistically, and the customers would rather keep their illusions about a dancers motives than be "sane and reasonably intelligent".

The blind misleading the blind?

Phil.

[Jenny]

Um Okay. Sorry Phil. While I'm on this website I'll stop assuming that customers are reasonably intelligent and sane and that strippers are providing a service that they want. Is it okay with you if I proceed on that premise in my personal life, though? I'd have a hard time explaining to my customers why I suddenly had to start talking very slowly, and "Well Phil from stripperweb told me that it was hopelessly utopian and naive to think that you were reasonably intelligent and were aware that you were paying me" sounds a little weird.

I was making my explanation on why customers and dancer could, in fact, be nice to each other the commercial nature of the transaction notwithstanding. What are you even arguing with?

Finally - stop derailing. You're told.

[mr_punk]

Okay, here's the thing. You are fundamentally disconnected to the human race.

no, i'm not. ironically, i can't seem to disconnect myself from you..er..or would that be "to you"? after all, it seems every time i turn around. you're still there.

I think customers should act like they are interacting with real live human beings - not like they are on a date.

okay. funny, i don't recall this point being in contention. but hey, at this juncture, i'm used to your blathering on, diverting and creating new points out of thin effing air before you actually say something reasonably coherent.

Now - I obviously don't think that because girls enjoy/imitate enjoyment that they are acting like they are on a date.

LOL..of course, you would think so. no surprise there, red. still, i thought all one had to do was wash his ass, brush his teeth and bring a tiproll big enough to choke a horse. after all, you ladies do say it's all about the money. well, it looks like you're wrong. my point is it's bad enough when, metaphorically speaking, customers walk out the whorehouse complaining of not feeling loved. however, it's equally as bad when the whores leave work complaining about the customer with sweatpants and poor foreplay skills like he's her BF or something.

I know it's a miraculous idea to you, but two parties can exchange money and... still be nice, courteous and respectful to each other. Weird, huh?

you mean, you attempting to divert the topic again? LOL...it's hardly weird, red. i think we're all used to it at this point.

[Phil-W]

Um Okay. Sorry Phil. While I'm on this website I'll stop assuming that customers are reasonably intelligent and sane and that strippers are providing a service that they want.

Must be a Brit thing then, cos my travels in 'stripclub land' persuades me that your average customer stops being sane and intelligent as soon as he passes the entrance of the venue.

Body language has intrigued me for years and when I see an overweight, not particularly attractive mid fifties custie making subsonscious flirtation gestures when a twenty year old dancer starts to talk to him, I do assume reality has gone for a tea break.

Sure the dancers are providing an in demand service, but nothing will persuade me that they're being 100% honest about their motives.

Do you go up to a customer and say "I'm here to earn a living - give me $20 and I'll strip off". Nope, you say words to the effect of "Isn't it nice that I've got a job I really enjoy. Shall we go and get naked, big boy?"

Is it okay with you if I proceed on that premise in my personal life, though?

Perfectly OK. As you're an intelligent and sane person, I'm sure you behave differently in real life to when you're 'Ms Fantasy Figure' at work. Hell, you might even be less argumentative.

I'd have a hard time explaining to my customers why I suddenly had to start talking very slowly, and "Well Phil from stripperweb told me that it was hopelessly utopian and naive to think that you were reasonably intelligent and were aware that you were paying me" sounds a little weird.

Oh, they're aware they're paying you - I mean handing over $20 before every dance is pretty unambiguous. I just think they might misunderstand your motives slightly. Like - they might think you like them as a person and dance primarily for the pleasure it gives you.

I was making my explanation on why customers and dancer could, in fact, be nice to each other the commercial nature of the transaction notwithstanding. What are you even arguing with?

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that dancer and customer should be nice to each other. It makes the evening far more pleasant for both sides.

What I was arguing about was exactly how honest both sides are about the real motivations for dancers dancing.

Being slightly more serious for a moment, I don't think many guys want to think too deeply about a dancer's motivations. That's because if they do start thinking that the primary motivation's money, then some (if not most) of the erotic impact of the dance goes.

Finally - stop derailing. You're told.

Sorry - gonna keep on derailing. Being on the other side of the Atlantic to you makes me awfully brave.

Phil.

PS: Am I morphing into mr_p? The sarcasm index of this post seems to be substantially up.

[xdamage]

It's always struck me as a bit of an "Emperor's New Clothes" situation - the dancers won't point out customers aren't seeing things totally realistically, ...

Of course not, it would be bad for business. But what you have to understand is this... not only would it be bad for business, but it would bad for a some dancers fake egos to acknowledge that this is the reality. See the implications are... they profit off of delusional people, and if you think about it, it's a small step to realizing OMG, I'm just like everyone else. Not a perfect little princess.

When you get your head around that you'll see why James is constantly down here trying to correct us. James fake ego simply can't deal with truth. James wants everything twisted in such a way that customers are bad, men are bad, and James is good. It's really that simple.

In this case you see, the problem is not that James wouldn't tell them, but you see, they are all really too stupid to get it anyway... it really has nothing to do with James makes more money if the customers remain delusional. Basically any possible logic could be used by James, EXCEPT, logic that leads to the conclusion that James really isn't such a perfect person or even exceptional in terms of morale standing. James is like everyone else. James wants what James wants, and wants it guilt free.

[minnow]

go to high contact clubs and start groping. it's a lot simpler than playing "guess my mileage" with a stripper.

Yeah, but even in moderate/high mileage clubs, some nuances & differences. In same club- Dancer #1 was fine with anything, except breasts & kitty. Dancer #2 wasn't as enthralled with inner thigh carresing as #1 was, but placed my hands on her breasts, and rubbed them over breasts in her own special way. I'd treat initial dance test drive as I would a car test drive with salesman around- I intend to exercise "towards the limits", but I'm not going to redline & peel rubber out of the starting blocks either

[Jenny]

Sorry - gonna keep on derailing. Being on the other side of the Atlantic to you makes me awfully brave.

Phil.

Dude, I totally go to the UK. I have a dual citizenship and everything.

Although - you've admitted it. You've taken responsibility. I'm pasting that into my signature with a link to this post.

[mr_punk]

Yeah, but even in moderate/high mileage clubs, some nuances & differences. In same club- Dancer #1 was fine with anything, except breasts & kitty. Dancer #2 wasn't as enthralled with inner thigh carresing as #1 was, but placed my hands on her breasts, and rubbed them over breasts in her own special way.

if this is supposed to be an example of an high contact club. i think you got ripped off twice. otherwise, it sounds like you got away with something in a medium contact club.