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Thread: Permission for a poll

  1. #1
    Kaylinn
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    Default Permission for a poll

    Ok guys, I'm having a problem with the research paper I want to write for school on why i would be benificial to legalize prostitution in Las Vegas.
    I've found some really realyl interesting facts about prostitution, such as:

    90% of all prostitution occurs in Las Vegas where it is illegal. There is 9 times more illegal prostitution in las vegas than in legal counties with brothels.

    since 1986 when mandatory HIV testing started at brothels, not one single prostitute has testedf positive.
    On the flip side, 368 prostitutes arrested last year in las vegas tested positive for HIV.

    Interesting!

    ANyway. On to the point of this post. One of the major opposing reasons for not wanting to legalize prostitution in Vegas is because " most prostitutes were sexually abused as children, and they just don't know any better. We should save the hookers and give them mental health counsiling and education!"

    Here's the problem:
    I can't find any statistics to back up that claim, and I can't find any to throw it out.
    I am searching for statistics of how many women in Nevada were sexually abused as children, and I'm trying to find out how many prostitutes worked in nevada last year, but this is impossible since it's illegal in Vegas, there aren't gonna be good stats on how many prostitutes there are total here.

    I would ideally like statistics of how many prostitutes actually were abused in their childhood. I can't find anythign close to thoes stats anywhere.

    So my next best: How many strippers were sexually abused as children?
    I can say that out of so many adult based workers polled, this many claimed to be abused as children. It isn't perfect, but it'll give me somethign to back up my claim that SA is a BS claim by people weho don't know their ass from a hoel in the group.

    I want to create a poll here on SW asking That very question. If you are an adult worker, were you sexually abused as a child? the question would apply to anyone in an adult based indurstry. It would obviously be an anonomous poll.

    And yeah, the results would be slghtly scewered from people answering the pioll who lie or whatever, but at least I'd have some numbers to use. I just need somethign to back this up, that not all sex workers or prostitutes have had abuse issues.

    Since this is quite a personal question, before creating the poll, I wanted to ask permission. WOuld you be offended if I made that poll? Would you answer it?

    And if the majority is yes, it is an offensive question to ask..can anyone suggest somewhere I can find somehting to throw that BS claim out the window?


    Thanks guys.
    Last edited by Kaylinn; 11-15-2007 at 05:15 AM.

  2. #2
    God/dess VegasPrincess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Go for it girl!!

    (and no I wasn't. I hate that fucking stereotype)
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


    Quote Originally Posted by anomar View Post
    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

  3. #3
    Featured Member desavirsire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    ditto what VP said ^

  4. #4
    God/dess ahmeerah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Yes, go for it.

  5. #5
    zxcire
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    I will answer, and be curious to see what others do as well.

    I know it's anonymous, but the ratio is what interests me.

  6. #6
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    I see no problem with it. I would hope people wouldnt lie.

  7. #7
    God/dess ExoticEngineer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    I say do it as well. I have heard that claim over and over for as long as I have been dancing, and I always wondered "how do you know? who did you ask?" If you, Kaylinn, can't find the information anywhere, how did that claim come to be? Am I making sense here?

    So yes, I say post it. I' be curious to know as well.




  8. #8
    Veteran Member RC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Please post it I'd like to see the results too.



    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine View Post
    How to pick up a stripper- have a thick cock, don't talk too much, and fuck like Satan. That is all.

  9. #9
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    I wouldn't bother with it. I don't see any reason why the number of sex workers who were abused as children has anything to do with the case for legalizing prostitution in Las Vegas; it's simply not relevant. Plenty of schoolteachers were sexually abused as children but we don't use that as grounds for driving their livelihood underground. I've written papers on legalizing/decriminalizing prostitution before (it was a pet subject of mine as an undergrad) and I refused to debate whether prostitution was moral or ethical because those are personal values. The question, when you're talking about legalization, is whether the government should have a legal right to criminalize certain forms of commerce between consenting adults. Put the onus of defending criminalization on your opponent.

  10. #10
    God/dess ExoticEngineer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Damn Yek, you have a really good point. I didn't even think about tha fact that wether a person was abused or not is such a personal issue, it shouldn't have any reflection on wether that particular business should occur or not.

    The two should be irrelevant. I am still curious though about the percentage, simply because of the stigma (is that the word I'm looking for?).

    But as for you paper Kaylinn....if that is the biggest argument, "they were sexually abused therefore they should not sell sex", you may want to get some idea of how to run it into a purely business issue. Stopping a person's right to do business based on their past life experiences doesn't seem right.

    Crap, I can't type such serious stuff until I have a cup of coffee. Sheesh!




  11. #11
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Yup. When you let them keep the focus on lurid details like sexual abuse, you lose your argument whether you're right or not, because the whole conversation comes to a halt so everyone can gossip about the past. And if you say only 10% of prostitutes were sexually abused, then they will take that 10% and run with it, turning it into "a significant percentage were abused" etc. In actuality it doesn't MATTER whether they were abused or not. Don't entertain that gossip for a minute, just stick to the point.

    Prostitution is going to happen regardless. It's the world's oldest profession. So it's not a question of whether we can stop it, it's a question of whether prostitutes should be criminalized and forced into a dangerous underground existence, or whether they should be licensed, regularly tested, and protected from violence. Seems like a no-brainer when you put it that way, no?

  12. #12
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Your right yek, But I figured if I wanted to present my case about why prostitution should be legalized( for the same reasons you justsaid. It's happening anyway. Legalize and regulate it) I need to look at the major opposing factors of legalization and prvide evidence on why thoes oppositions are incorrect or worthless.
    Really, all I have foud on the opposition is the SA part, and the biggest obstacle is the major casinos oppose it. They think it would hurt tourism, but I have discovered that illegal prostitution is hurting the casinos, in the way of legal and economical issues.
    The Mayor of vegas supports the legalization, and wants to create a red light district downtown. Only 1 casino downtown supports this. The rest feel it would be detrimental to business. Why? Cause they "don't want thoes type of people there" What? Downtown is FULL of riffraff.Downtown isn't even safe off the main street where the casino's are. It is hooker central. A legal brothel that was regulated would reduce the amount of illegal hookers, and would bring in more guys with money. Who would leave the brothel and walk into a casino. brothels aren't cheap, it isn't the place for $5handjobs. So I think that a brothel there would help filter in guys with money, which would help business down there. Saving downtown has always been a big issue in Vegas, that's why they added FreemontStreet Experience. They are trying to save downtown because since the strip got so bg with all the new resport casinos, nobody goes down there.

    Finally, vegas is all about brining in money. And avenue for bringing in more people and more money, Vegas likes.

    Anyway. So I felt like I needed to face the opposition and discredit it, in order to built a sound case.

    I have found a few statistics, but I don't think they are credible. I have found statistics saying anywhere from 65-98% of sex workers were abused as children, but there was no evidence of that stat. Where? Who was interviewed? How many subjects? I can't find any of that to go with the stats.

    I did find 1 statistic, research was made by a former prostitute who has since made it her mission to eliminate prostitution because she thinks it's so terrible.
    She interviewed 130 prostitutes in San Fransisco, and out of that, she got 57% were abused as children.
    WhatI relly want is to see the numbers for legal prostitutes. The numbers for brothel workers.
    Because I did find a statistic that said 95% of brothel prostitutes said their self esteem was better after working in a brothel. And also...suicide rate among brothel workers was actually lower that the suicide rate of other women polled.

    well...I emailed all the brothels in Parhump and asked them of it would be possible for me to conduct a poll with their girls. I doubt they will let me, but it was worth a try.

    This paper excites me. I'm just finding tons of awesome information.

  13. #13
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    You could still address the sexual abuse argument by pointing out its irrelevance. I still think you shoot yourself in the foot when you cite actual numbers; it gives that argument legitimacy. And really it doesn't matter whether teachers, or strippers, or prostitutes, or Congresswomen were sexually abused as children. It doesn't define who they are now and it definitely has no bearing on their job options.

    The casinos are against a red light district because people would leave the casino with their winnings, rather than stay at the casino and lose it all back. The casinos would lose money on a red light district in Vegas and they know it. The only way you could get them to support it would be if they were allowed to have brothels in the casinos, or if they were able to get in on the money in some other way. But they don't want to see people's winnings walking out the door.

    The main arguments would also come from the small communities in Nevada, like Pahrump. There is NOTHING in those towns except the brothels, and it's the only source of income for the local communities and the counties. If people could stay in Vegas (or Reno) and enjoy the same brothel action without that two-hour drive, no one would go to Pahrump anymore and it would kill the community. That's probably the strongest argument against legal prostitution in Vegas and Reno, so you'd definitely need to address that point.

  14. #14
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    ^Thanks yek. You make very good points.
    Espicially about the casino's opposition. As it is now, casino's work with agencies and prostitutes that they call for their big players.( of course, it's for strippers ad escorts, not actual sex acts ) My boyfriend sees it every night at work.
    But with that system, it keeps the player in the casino, keeps him happy, and the casino gets paid from the player for getting hooked up, and I have also read that the prostitute gives kick backs to the casino for sending her business.

    But...they would never approve brothels in casinos. No way in hell. Espicially with the trend right now going towards resort casinos. There's much more to casinos than gambling anymore, and apparently, this rtend is attempting to cater towards a family experience...bring the whole family, fun for everyone!
    Well, with that trend...no way in hell woudl a brothel ever get approved for a casino, they'd never want it, and it would just never work.

    About the brothels in Parhump. Another good point. Parhump has maybe 4 casinos? they are small, and don't attract tourists at all. The brothels are the only draw to go out there.
    I'm not sure now how to address that issue.
    I do know that Sheri's ranch has said that they would love to have a brothel in Vegas. But that doesn't address the economy issue in Parhump.
    UNless....vegas brothels offered a kick back to Parhump. like we are stealing your business, but we are gonna make so much more money with it out here, so we will continue to give you a cut of the money.
    Or something. I have to think about that one more.
    I'll have to find out how Parhump feels about vegas getting brothels. See if I can find any arguments for or against it.

    As fr the sexual abuse. I think I agree wit you, my best bet is to say somethign liek,
    " although many people claim most prostitutes were victims of abuse as children, there aren't any facts or statistics to support that theory, and the truth is, many women were victims of abuse, regardless of their profession choice.

    Yek, thanks so much for giving me more stuff to think about.

  15. #15
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    No problem. I'd love to read your paper when you finish it. Like I said, I've written several papers on this subject (although I favor decriminalization, not Nevada-style legalization) so if you want to debate ideas or you need help with sources, just let me know!

    Another issue you could consider is whether a repeal of Clark County's anti-brothel law would actually decrease illegal prostitution. Many of the prostitutes in rural Nevada find that they would rather work illegally in Vegas because Nevada's laws are so oppressive and the girls can make more money when the brothel and state aren't taking half of it, plus they can actually go out at night. You might find that a red light district would only attract a few select women and the rest of the Vegas prostitutes prefer to do illegal outcall and keep their money.

  16. #16
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    ^ I've concidered that aspect.
    And of course, no way will legalizing prostitution ever eliminate completly the problem of illegal prostitution. But the aspect of prostituting safely....of course that comes with it's own pros and cons. Do you want a safe enviroment to practice your business, a place free of pimps, and shady customers who rape you and steal yrou money, thatcomes with the cons of having to share your money. Just like housefees at a strip club, you have to pay for the benefit of having a comfortable and safe place to do your business. Yeah, some girls will still choose to take their chances and keep their cash....
    But I also wonder, how many of them actually keep all their cash, and how many give it to a pimp? What is the statistic of street girls who have pimps?





    Also...I think that imposing stricter laws on illegal prostitution would be important as well. Longer jail terms, heavier fines, and most importantly, more busts of street girls and their pimps. The money from legal brothels could be used to enforce the laws on illegal hookers. I'm sure the brothels wouldn't mind putting out some money for that, because the illegal pros. hurt their business.

  17. #17
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Hm. Well, illegal prostitution is such a tricky area I'm not sure I'd want to subject the workers to harsher punishment than they already get, especially when the johns have such an overwhelming tendency to get off scot-free.

    And "pimp" is such a vague word sometimes. According to the legal definition, a stay-at-home father is a pimp if his wife works as a prostitute. Yes, the ugly kind of pimp does exist, but I can't think of a legal way to define it and it isn't the law's business anyway. Assault and theft are already illegal. I don't want the government to get into the habit of telling women who they may give their money to and who they can't. Besides, prostitutes aren't the only ones with pimps - just look at the "stripper boyfriend" stereotype, and we all know women with loser boyfriends and husbands who have the same mentality even though their women don't work in the sex industry at all.

  18. #18
    MsQwerty
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    Im sorry I dont have any sources, but ive always noticed that the percentage or ratio of strippers, sex workers who were abused as children is exactly the same as the percentage / ratio of women in the general population.
    Maybe some sex worker organisations would have figures?

  19. #19
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Hm. Well, illegal prostitution is such a tricky area I'm not sure I'd want to subject the workers to harsher punishment than they already get, especially when the johns have such an overwhelming tendency to get off scot-free.

    And "pimp" is such a vague word sometimes. According to the legal definition, a stay-at-home father is a pimp if his wife works as a prostitute. Yes, the ugly kind of pimp does exist, but I can't think of a legal way to define it and it isn't the law's business anyway. Assault and theft are already illegal. I don't want the government to get into the habit of telling women who they may give their money to and who they can't. Besides, prostitutes aren't the only ones with pimps - just look at the "stripper boyfriend" stereotype, and we all know women with loser boyfriends and husbands who have the same mentality even though their women don't work in the sex industry at all.

    Again, very true.
    Currently, the law states that it is illegal to live off the proceeds of a prostitute. (pimps aren't allowed to live off their money) however, this law doesn't apply to madame's or brothels.

    But I agree with you, the law shouln't tell anyoen who they can give their money to. I'm just thinking along the lines of the pimps on the corner, forcing the girls to stay and work, then take all her money.

    As for the johns, I am in favor of stricter laws punishing them as well, if they engage in illegal sex acts.

    I dunno Yek. You make me think. I had no idea taking on such a subject would be so deep, or raise so many unforseen issues. iI'm glad you debating with me, giving me new insights. Ihave a feelign this paper is going to be my masterpiece when I'm done. If I can do it right, and handle it properly. Whch I think I can. It's just gonna take some time.

  20. #20
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Yes, this subject is a lot more complex than people think. I'm here if you ever want to debate some more, I love to debate!

  21. #21
    God/dess ExoticEngineer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Wow you two, this thread is so interesting! Kaylinn, I'd love to read your paper when it's finished as well, if you wouldn't mind.




  22. #22
    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    poll away, but the results will be completely inapplicable to your paper...I know you said you're aware of that... but I really woudn't even bother. No prof worth their salt would accept those numbers as anything approaching relevant. Sorry, not trying to be harsh, just sayin'.

    What would be relevant would be explanding your search for prostitute/sexual abuse stats outside of NV...stats from any other state, the US as a whole or even Canada could be used in the right context.

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  23. #23
    Veteran Member CallMeSky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    I wouldnt mind a poll either.

  24. #24
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    hmm..I may be changing my views on this. I may be going towards decriminilization with control.
    Not that anyone cares about whathappens to the prostutites, but I don't like the way brothels work, the more I read about them. I was hoping for a resolution I could find that did 3 things:
    1. Allowed women the freedom to choose their profession.
    2. Allow women to be able to work that profession sucessfully and safely.
    3. Reduce the amount of illegal street hookers though some kind of gov't control (lisencing, mandatory health exams, mental health) because illegal prostitution is unsafe, has a higher STD rate, higher rate of rapes and beatings, eliminate the many underage girls prostututing, makes neighborhoods unsafe and lowers the value...

    Overall, I wanted to find a plan thatpleased everyone. I'm sure that most people when concidering how to handle prostitution don't concider the needs of the prostitutes in their plans. But I feel they should be free to make the choice for themselves if they want to be sex workers, and they should be able to conduct that business in a safe and professional manner.


    But, Yek, I wanted your opinion on this article I found on how Sweden handled prostutition sucessfully:

    In the capital city of Stockholm the number of women in street prostitution has been reduced by two thirds, and the number of johns has been reduced by 80%. There are other major Swedish cities where street prostitution has all but disappeared. Gone too, for the most part, are the renowned Swedish brothels and massage parlors which proliferated during the last three decades of the twentieth century when prostitution in Sweden was legal.

    In 1999, after years of research and study, Sweden passed legislation that a) criminalizes the buying of sex, and b) decriminalizes the selling of sex. The novel rationale behind this legislation is clearly stated in the government's literature on the law:
    "In Sweden prostitution is regarded as an aspect of male violence against women and children. It is officially acknowledged as a form of exploitation of women and children and constitutes a significant social problem... gender equality will remain unattainable so long as men buy, sell and exploit women and children by prostituting them."
    In addition to the two pronged legal strategy, a third and essential element of Sweden's prostitution legislation provides for ample and comprehensive social service funds aimed at helping any prostitute who wants to get out, and additional funds to educate the public. As such, Sweden's unique strategy treats prostitution as a form of violence against women in which the men who exploit by buying sex are criminalized, the mostly female prostitutes are treated as victims who need help, and the public is educated in order to counteract the historical male bias that has long stultified thinking on prostitution

    Read the entire artcile here:


    It's very interesting....
    Last edited by Kaylinn; 11-16-2007 at 08:19 PM.

  25. #25
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission for a poll

    Here's the problem: even if you poll sex workers, and few respond to having experienced sexual abuse, the naysayers will still conclude that they indeed have been, and that the memory has been suppressed.

    The above sentence has multiple grammatical errors, but I don't feel like changing it.

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