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Thread: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

  1. #1
    madmaxine
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    Lightbulb Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    This might be Part 2 of my whole "No More Man-Hating" spiritual education. (Please no fighting on this thread....)

    I recently dated a man who confided in me that he was deeply hurt by his ex-girlfriend's miscarriages. (This came up because we were discussing marriage and apparently it means a lot to him to have children with a woman he cares about...) I think he's written me off for good because I confessed I would have difficulty conceiving, aside from not really wanting children of my own. (No regrets- honesty is the best policy.)

    The interesting part is this is basically what happened with the last guy I was close to- part of it, anyway. The ex took his girlfriend's miscarriages personally, AND he really wanted children, like NOW...So it didn't pan out.

    So, on to the shock and amazement...I was raised to believe men didn't value pregnancies like women did, given the different biological investments. I thought their emotional investments started at the point they were (reasonably) sure of the child's paternity. (Forgive me for sounding crude, but these were the impressions I picked up from people around me as a child.)

    And I am more used to seeing men defer on paternal rights than actually take an emotional initiative BEFORE the child exists.

    Margaret Mead said that, "Mothers are a biological neccessity, fathers are a social invention." But she was framing this in the context of an isolated island in the South Pacific, which was a unique microcosmic society. All about context on that one, I guess.

    I wonder if anyone has thoughts or comments on this revelation....

  2. #2
    TheSexKitten
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Just to contribute, my father is very much one of those sentimental family males. His 2nd serious girlfriend was pregnant while they were together with her ex's baby, and she decided to give it up for adoption. Even though it wasn't even his, he cradled it and fell in love with it and grieved for a while after it was born and given away.

    Daddy men do exist. My bf has a very paternal instinct and I LOVE it.

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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    I agree with TSK that there are men out there who value life at its first beginning and not just when the baby arrives. Though, personally I have never met a man who truly wanted kids or met a man who valued life before its first day. With that said maybe I just have high hopes.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



  4. #4
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSexKitten View Post
    Daddy men do exist. My bf has a very paternal instinct and I LOVE it.
    I did a straw poll among my new-daddy friends following the birth of my own first. Conclusion: Quite a number of guys have trouble in that first year or two when the bond between mother and child is, appropriately, intense and intimate (think breast feeding). However, about the time the kid starts to acquire language, some parental switch is triggered, and the dads come to appreciate the baby as something more than a crying/eating/puking/sleeping (repeat) machine.

  5. #5
    TheSexKitten
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoeditor View Post
    I did a straw poll among my new-daddy friends following the birth of my own first. Conclusion: Quite a number of guys have trouble in that first year or two when the bond between mother and child is, appropriately, intense and intimate (think breast feeding). However, about the time the kid starts to acquire language, some parental switch is triggered, and the dads come to appreciate the baby as something more than a crying/eating/puking/sleeping (repeat) machine.
    That kind of makes sense.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Oh, yeah. A friend of mine's boyfriend lost twins with his ex-wife. They were in the middle of nowhere when she went into labor early and the babies ended up dying. It's been over ten years and he's still deeply scarred by it and wants kids but is afraid that they would die.

    Unfortunately, this doesn't make him any better father to the kids he does have with his ex wife. They are in another country but he keeps himself very distant.

    When I was a teenager I used to babysit for this couple where the guy was a stay at home dad. He was soooo good with the kids, much better than some mothers I've known.



  7. #7
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoeditor View Post
    I did a straw poll among my new-daddy friends following the birth of my own first. Conclusion: Quite a number of guys have trouble in that first year or two when the bond between mother and child is, appropriately, intense and intimate (think breast feeding). However, about the time the kid starts to acquire language, some parental switch is triggered, and the dads come to appreciate the baby as something more than a crying/eating/puking/sleeping (repeat) machine.
    I've read about some interesting things that occur with/ to new fathers, such as: other women coming after them sexually because they have proven their fertility, favorable changes of heart occurring regarding paternity (never bet on it though, ladies) and even adopting another man's child as his own (legally, financially and emotionally.)

    Many of my ideas about mammalian reproduction were formed from my previous employment in the wildlife science field, so I had a "reductionist" view of how human males reacted to the possibility of paternity.

    It's nice to shed these preconceived notions.

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    God/dess Lexi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSexKitten View Post
    Just to contribute, my father is very much one of those sentimental family males. His 2nd serious girlfriend was pregnant while they were together with her ex's baby, and she decided to give it up for adoption. Even though it wasn't even his, he cradled it and fell in love with it and grieved for a while after it was born and given away.

    Daddy men do exist. My bf has a very paternal instinct and I LOVE it.

    Ok. I just got super teary eyed there. How sweet is that?



    And to answer the OP:
    I think it depends on the man and how he was raised and taught to value women/relationships. I think it also depends on how badly they want to be a father, etc. (ex: a 17 yr old father-to-be vs a 40 yr old father-to-be) etc.

    Sorry if this is incoherent. I am on my 2nd glass of vino. lol

  9. #9
    TheSexKitten
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    ^^^ My dad's a big cuddle bear.

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    Featured Member Kaiyla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Living in the society we do, it is easy to speculate that the majority of men don't feel the same way we do, regarding parental "feelings" (for lack of a better word). I am not a parent but imagine that the whole having-a-baby experience is very complex, and very emotional for both parents. Not all unfortunately, but more men probably get wrapped up in these feelings considerably more than we might assume they would. It's a beautiful thing for a man to anticipate the birth of his child the same way a woman would, but also wanting to be a part of that child's life. I think that many men do regard it as a very sacred thing that is deeply emotional. Nevertheless, your story was refreshing.

  11. #11
    TheSexKitten
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexi View Post
    Ok. I just got super teary eyed there. How sweet is that?



    And to answer the OP:
    I think it depends on the man and how he was raised and taught to value women/relationships. I think it also depends on how badly they want to be a father, etc. (ex: a 17 yr old father to be vs a 40 yr old father to be) etc.

    Sorry if this is incoherent. I am on my 2nd glass of vino. lol
    Agreed! Men raised in a household environment of machismo would probably be less likely to be excited about nurturing a new life, and more excited about passing on their family name or genes or whatever.

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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoeditor View Post
    Conclusion: Quite a number of guys have trouble in that first year or two when the bond between mother and child is, appropriately, intense and intimate (think breast feeding). However, about the time the kid starts to acquire language, some parental switch is triggered, and the dads come to appreciate the baby as something more than a crying/eating/puking/sleeping (repeat) machine.
    Because I'm a nocturnal/insomniac being, some of my fondest early memories of my first son (born in 1994) include kickin' it with him during the wee hours of the morning. Once he was weaned off breastfeeding, I was the natural choice for feeding & changing because I was already awake and a light sleeper.

    By the time my second son was born in 1998, Pres. Clinton's administration had passed the Paternity Leave Act, and I had the opportunity to leave my F/T job and be at home with him for several months after my wife returned to work. He went everywhere with me, and I felt like a better father and MORE of a man as a result of the experience...

    Just my , though...

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    God/dess xdamage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine View Post
    ...I was raised to believe men didn't value pregnancies like women did, given the different biological investments. I thought their emotional investments started at the point they were (reasonably) sure of the child's paternity. (Forgive me for sounding crude, but these were the impressions I picked up from people around me as a child.)

    And I am more used to seeing men defer on paternal rights than actually take an emotional initiative BEFORE the child exists....
    I'd say there is a some truth to what you believe there, and it may well be the most common behavior, but as with so many things, it's a big world and there is room for a lot of variations and exceptions. Sometimes you see the other case as well, women who seem to have little or no maternal instinct ever, or it doesn't really appear until after the child is born.

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    Senior Member Miaowren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    I have a big smile on my face right now... You reminded me of something. It's out of my 'beautiful things I've seen' box. (It's my box - I make the rules... So you may have to bear with me a little?)

    So when I was 17, I had this neighbor, right. A BIG rough lookin' bear of a bloke. He had a little blonde wife. (No ring - but yeah..)

    He never laid a finger on them but he had a fridge, under the house and would vent all and any frustrations out on it. By smashing holy fuck out of it - with this bar.
    (It may sound alarming and trust me it did - 'til I knew what it was but he never took anything (whatever it may have been) out on his family. He had a perfectly good and likely more satisfying whipping boy just down stairs.)

    One night I was home alone and there was a 'creepy stranger' type disturbance around our houses. A little after it seemed settled he popped over (with his trusty bar) to make sure I was ok (knowing I was alone at the time)
    I don't expect anyone to do that kind of stuff so it was nice but what I was really thinking was 'Man.. I feel sorry for any poor bastard Stupid enough to come and try to fuck with Your family!' He wasn't a dick he stayed inside - protected his...
    They're lucky though, he would've fucked them up. The fridge can vouch for that.

    Ok. I told you all that to tell you this...

    They had two kids. A sweet dark haired little girl and a little fella', a year or two older.
    He'd met her when the boy was like 6wks old (er.. dad *pfft* was long gone!) That little boy had such an awe of His Dad. It was cute to see him tagging along just to watch what 'incredible' stuff he would do.
    That's kinda standard though I know I'm getting to it.

    One day he was telling us the tale.


    Btw-
    The boy didn't know that his Dad was 'not his dad' (or whatever). But how would you explain it to a 2 & a half yr old anyway?

    "Your dad is not your dad"
    **Huh??**
    "Well you know how babies come from mummys and daddys...?"
    **Ahh! Yep - mummys, daddys.. I'm with ya now go on**

    Then what do you say. ...Forget that!



    Ok so what dropped my jaw was when as he spoke about the boy, it was clear he was just simply "My Son" to him. And his eyes welled up to the point where it left no uncertainty. And again on a few other occasions when it came into conversation.

    The intensity of his love was so overwhelming it physically moved him to the verge of tears.

    It fucking blew me away!! And he had no shame in it whatsoever. (Especially with "Men don't cry" and all that shit, you know? )


    I will never ever forget that.
    They were a cool little family. This big guy, a tiny wife, two happy little kids... and one fucked-up fridge!

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    Senior Member Miaowren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Sorry so LONG :-S

    And for the thread-jacking :-S

  16. #16
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miaowren View Post
    Btw-
    The boy didn't know that his Dad was 'not his dad' (or whatever). But how would you explain it to a 2 & a half yr old anyway?

    "Your dad is not your dad"
    **Huh??**
    "Well you know how babies come from mummys and daddys...?"
    **Ahh! Yep - mummys, daddys.. I'm with ya now go on**

    Then what do you say. ...Forget that!



    Ok so what dropped my jaw was when as he spoke about the boy, it was clear he was just simply "My Son" to him. And his eyes welled up to the point where it left no uncertainty. And again on a few other occasions when it came into conversation.

    The intensity of his love was so overwhelming it physically moved him to the verge of tears.

    It fucking blew me away!! And he had no shame in it whatsoever. (Especially with "Men don't cry" and all that shit, you know? )


    I will never ever forget that.
    They were a cool little family. This big guy, a tiny wife, two happy little kids... and one fucked-up fridge!
    I know a man like the one you're talking about....He married my friend's mother when she had to flee her abusive 1st husband...when she was 8 months pregnant with a son.

    Same kind of guy right down to the emotional attachment and forebearance.

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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    For me, family would be everything if I were lucky enough to have one. I've lately realized that one reason I haven't married is because I didn't trust that a woman would stay around--probably just my own issue, though perhaps other men feel the same--and the truth is I don't think I could stand losing my children. I think a lot of men have that fear on the horizon and, at least in a few cases, it explains the "fear of commitment" we are so famous for.

    I think for some of us, especially as we get older, the next generation we bring into the world is the most important thing there is.
    JK Jim

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    God/dess NinaDaisy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men- I Was Shocked...and Amazed.

    This isn't a huge surprise to me. My ex that I was with for 6 years couldn't wait for us to have a baby. At 37, he's 8 years older than I am. He would literally say things like "make me a baby!" while not quite fully grasping what it took to actually raise one.

    He then knocked up his (23 year old) rebound from me within just a few months and is now trapped in an unhappy relationship working 2 jobs to support them all. Isn't great when people get what they want?

    I've been thinking a lot lately how the biological imperative is a lot different for men. They have the luxury of waiting longer and that seems to make a big difference. It's much easier for a man to impregnate a woman at 45 than for a woman to get pregnant at that age, even with medical intervention.

    Things are just different.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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