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Thread: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

  1. #1
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Please excuse me if I already wrote something similar before. But I am wondering how you would react to this, and new feedback is always welcome.

    Two years ago, I had an accidental pregnancy(condom broke, then the morning after pill failed). At the time I was 23, college grad, living independently with my own place, solid credit. I was making good money stripping. I didn't have a full-time job in my field yet(this was back when I had no relevant work experience and nobody wanted to give me a chance), and trust me I wasn't proud of this fact, but I was actively looking and I was stripping in the meantime to support myself. I wasn't in a perfect situation to be having a kid, but I was doing WORLDS better than just a short year or two prior, when I was stuck working in retail and crashing on my friend's sofa because my family disowned me. I thought I was more than able to take care of this baby, therefore there'd be no good reason for me to get an abortion, since I am opposed to abortion for the most part. An uneducated vulnerable teen girl I was NOT!...I was a stable 20something with an education and an income!

    However, it seemed that 80% of my so-called "friends"(and their busybody boyfriends) disagreed with me. They made me feel a bit insensible and irresponsible for NOT wanting to get an abortion. Some of these damn hypocrites had kids themselves at younger ages than I was, yet it was "fine" for them but not for me. I felt slighted and I felt that a lot of people underestimated me.

    As luck turns out, I miscarried(probably at least partly due to the stress I felt from everyone discouraging me). But I used the pregnancy as a learning experience for ways to prepare better in case this happened again. I fixed many of the problems that my opposers had cited before as reasons as to why I shouldn't have that kid. For example, I bought myself full coverage health insurance. I searched even harder for a "regular" job, so that I would still be able to work and make income during the later stages of pregnancy...and half a year later, I landed a full-time job that allowed me to quit stripping! I was very proud of my new accomplishments and felt more able-bodied than ever before.

    Then last spring, my friends were joking around with our guy friend, and somehow he misinterpreted something they said as thinking I was pregnant. When I talked to him on the phone, he started off by saying, "Whyyyyy are you happy about thiiiiiissss? A pregnancy is gonna ruin your life." I was so hurt! Here I was, 24 yrs old, thinking that I was more able-bodied than ever...but apparently not! Meanwhile, this guy's 22-yr-old cousin was pregnant, and he was viewing it differently and happier! ??? Another person(my ex's new gf's sister-in-law, who has kids of her own) said to me in a slightly lecturing voice, "You know that it is hard being pregnant, right? It's not something to take lightly."

    Is there a reason why people seem to keep doing this? Is there something I'm missing? This kind of condescending double standard hasn't just happened to me with the baby thing...I've seen people have similar attitudes about me wanting to buy a house, too. (Come to think of it, there's a lot of parallels and similarities between having a kid and buying a house) Or better yet...has anyone else experienced this, or am I the only one?

    EDIT: I appreciate everyones' feedback so far on how I shouldn't pay attention to people that doubt me. But now I'm curious as to what YOUR opinions are. Was I "off my rocker" to actually think that I was more capable and stable than your average 15-yr-old? Or, was I well-suited and just needed to filter out the negativity?? I noticed Cutey5032's pregnancy thread and how supportive you guys were, saying "You'll do great, don't worry." Do you guys feel that way about me, or do you think that maybe I'm missing a few things and therefore was 'not ready'?
    Last edited by PhillyDancer1982; 12-27-2007 at 04:28 PM. Reason: added more

  2. #2
    Senior Member PrincessShea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    According to a lot of people, YOU (read: anyone but them) are too young to get pregnant if you're under 40.

    Seriously. If a 40 year old announces she's pregnant, I bet she never hears "Oh, do you think you're ready for that? Do you know who the father is?" from total strangers.
    "take it from me, to be a stripper, all you need to have is no talent!"

  3. #3
    zxcire
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    I think you care WAY too much what other people think about you.

    So many of your posts are about how horrible it is that people think badly of you.

    Fuck em. Live for you. Don't worry yourself over everyone else thinks. You go to sleep with yourself.

  4. #4
    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by zxcire View Post
    I think you care WAY too much what other people think about you.

    So many of your posts are about how horrible it is that people think badly of you.

    Fuck em. Live for you. Don't worry yourself over everyone else thinks. You go to sleep with yourself.
    I agree with this. I read a lot of your posts and they do carry the same theme of "people are judging me, and people don't think I'm good enough". I think you should make it a New Year's Resolution to realize, truly realize and not give yourself lip service, that you are good enough for YOU and that's all that matters.

    Good luck honey!!
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    I don't understand why you are giving these "friends" so much power over your own self-esteem.

    Friends in your immediate circle are likely to have an opinion on your pregnancy. If any of them come across as obnoxious, rude or boorish, try looking at them as, well, obnoxious, rude or boorish. This is better than mysteriously believing everything they say, and on that basis concluding that you are somehow flawed. You are giving these people every single ounce of power they hold over you.

    There is no double standard. They are just idiots.

  6. #6
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    There are a million reasons that a pregnancy could be not good news. If, for example, you are a young woman at the beginning of her career, the time off, etc could be a problem. If you are a single young woman at the beginning of her career and don't have a supportive partner to share in the sick leave, baby sitting, etc, even more so. I would ask why you are choosing to view it as someone impugning you personally rather than questioning the timing of a huge, permanent life changing event. I've encouraged friends to have abortions. Fortunately they were not the type of person to turn every element of advice into a slur against them and accepted it as being an issue of timing, lifestyle etc., rather than of innate ability.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  7. #7
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Do these "friends" know you from when you were going through your hard times? When you barely had money and such that you have written about?

    If so...they may always see you that way, even though your situation has changed.

    Also...people tend to think any girl isnt ready or able if they are alone...no steady bf, engaged, married, etc...to the kids dad

  8. #8
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    If you want advice and get advice, take it in the spirit it was offered, whether you give credence to it or not.

    If someone offers unwanted advice that's unsupportive, MYOFB is an acceptable response.

  9. #9
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    You have to stop letting others ideas and feelings hurt you.

    When my mom got upset (instead of excited) that i was pregnant I was sooo hurt. Im 25 and in a steady relationship (married now) have a degree and am in a great position. And a place a million times better than when I was pregnant at 16. It hurt but honestly I wasnt going to let what she thinks stand in the way of what Im going to do. I just wrote it off as her being a bitch and hypocrite. People are weird... sometimes I just dont get it...

  10. #10
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessShea View Post
    According to a lot of people, YOU (read: anyone but them) are too young to get pregnant if you're under 40.

    Seriously. If a 40 year old announces she's pregnant, I bet she never hears "Oh, do you think you're ready for that? Do you know who the father is?" from total strangers.
    Hmmm good point. Although I can think of at least a few unmarried, single 40-yr-olds that want to have kids but don't even have a significant other, let alone a good father figure. I doubt there'd be many people in favor of these 40-yr-olds being single parents either. I think there was an episode of Friends that dealt with this theme(the difference is, Courtney Cox's character was in her 30s, not her 40s, but same principle)

    Quote Originally Posted by AudreyLeigh
    You have to stop letting others ideas and feelings hurt you.

    When my mom got upset (instead of excited) that i was pregnant I was sooo hurt. Im 25 and in a steady relationship (married now) have a degree and am in a great position. And a place a million times better than when I was pregnant at 16. It hurt but honestly I wasnt going to let what she thinks stand in the way of what Im going to do. I just wrote it off as her being a bitch and hypocrite. People are weird... sometimes I just dont get it...
    I can relate. What you described about your mom being unsupportive is pretty much how I felt. And yes, it sounds like she is a bitch and a hypocrite. At least I know that I'm not alone.

  11. #11
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by francescadubois View Post
    I agree with this. I read a lot of your posts and they do carry the same theme of "people are judging me, and people don't think I'm good enough". I think you should make it a New Year's Resolution to realize, truly realize and not give yourself lip service, that you are good enough for YOU and that's all that matters.

    Good luck honey!!
    That is true, and the reason why I'm dwelling of what people think is because I just came back after spending the holidays with my family...the same family(minus my mom, who has since died) that disowned me years earlier. It seems that my dad has a changed opinion of me and now sees me to be the honest, hardworking, "able" person that I am and always strived to be. I have qualms about my grandmother though, who is the very person that peer pressured my mother into disowning me. I feel like I'm never good enough, and I feel like she views my cousin to be more competent and financially able than me, which sucks balls big time. Ugggghhhhh family drama makes me so tense and self-conscious.

  12. #12
    God/dess greenidlady1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Everybody has an opinion of their own. Of course they have the right to voice it but some aren't very tactful about it and then some are overly critical and hypocritical.

    I think when you question yourself others will do the same. If you have confidence in your choices others will be less likely to try to influence you and respect you.

  13. #13
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    Do these "friends" know you from when you were going through your hard times? When you barely had money and such that you have written about?

    If so...they may always see you that way, even though your situation has changed.
    That is exactly what I was thinking this whole time!! I think that unfortunately, some people will always see me as the poor girl that I described in the "When I was broke..." thread. People can look at my rags-to-riches story in two ways:

    1. They can see the drastic financial improvements I made, and thus view me as capable of taking on almost ANYTHING. (good)

    OR

    2. They can see my past financial hardships as reason to believe that if I ever fell that low in the past, that perhaps I might one day "crack" and let myself fall again, therefore rendering me to be unfit for such a huge commitment as a house or a baby. Or, they might just remember the bad times and never truly see me as changed, because first impressions stick around for a while. (bad)

    Cameron, I think we both see which route a lot of my "friends" took. And yes, most of my friends either knew me back in the day when I had trouble finding a job, or else they met me right afterwards and were at least aware of the troubles I had before(either from me telling them, or from our mutual friends blabbing to them).

  14. #14
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by greenidlady1 View Post
    Everybody has an opinion of their own. Of course they have the right to voice it but some aren't very tactful about it and then some are overly critical and hypocritical.

    I think when you question yourself others will do the same. If you have confidence in your choices others will be less likely to try to influence you and respect you.
    Greenidlady, I agree with you wholeheartedly. When I was pregnant, I was doing a lot of second guessing myself and doubting my abilities...not because I was incapable, but because I'm always that second-guessing type of person. I'm the type of person who quivers in fear every time I get an STD test or routine doctor's visit, even when I have nothing to fear. I'm the type of person who prolonged breaking up with a complete loser for a total of 7 months -- to the point that HE ended up dumping ME(how undignifying) -- simply because I kept vasilating and second-guessing myself despite knowing that I really didn't want to be with him. That could explain why people had low confidence in me then. But then again, I didn't project ANY lack of confidence this past year when that guy Matt thought I was pregnant...yet he STILL started off a regular phone convo with "Whhhyyyyyy are you happy about this?" Ugh.

  15. #15
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Maybe it's time to find new friends

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    God/dess cutey5032's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

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    Last edited by cutey5032; 10-11-2008 at 03:37 PM.

  17. #17
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    There are a million reasons that a pregnancy could be not good news. If, for example, you are a young woman at the beginning of her career, the time off, etc could be a problem. If you are a single young woman at the beginning of her career and don't have a supportive partner to share in the sick leave, baby sitting, etc, even more so. I would ask why you are choosing to view it as someone impugning you personally rather than questioning the timing of a huge, permanent life changing event. I've encouraged friends to have abortions. Fortunately they were not the type of person to turn every element of advice into a slur against them and accepted it as being an issue of timing, lifestyle etc., rather than of innate ability.
    I understand your logic. Let me try to explain my mindset with the whole "not ready" thing. When people tell me at age 23 that I'm not ready nor capable...but then a year later, it's okay for 22-yr-old "Sherry" or 23-yr-old "Andrea"(Andrea has no stable job except modelling) to have kids...it makes me feel a bit shortchanged. Yeah maybe people view Sherry's healthcare job or even Andrea's instable "modelling career" to be more stable and substantial than my job was. But if that's the case, then what is that saying?...that is saying that I am obviously a little "behind" and not as successful(jobwise, etc) as I thought I was. THAT is the part that slights me.

    A good part of people judging say, Sherry or Andrea to be more capable than me also has to do with how they perceive them. As Cameron_Keys stated, some people who knew me when I was poor will ALWAYS see me as the poor girl who couldn't get a job paying over $7/hr and had to crash on her friend M--k's sofa for a month. As Greenidlady said, some people may see my lack of confidence or decisiveness as indication that I'm not as capable as I am. People may see Sherry as being more of a guy magnet, and therefore be more inclined to think that Sherry's baby daddy would stay with her; likewise, they may judge MY choice in the baby's daddy based on that one lousy ex-bf that I had 6 years ago.

  18. #18
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    Maybe it's time to find new friends
    I agree...and for the most part, I've made new friends and I ditched a lot of the people that underestimated me during the pregnancy. However, there's 1 or 2 close friends that honest-to-God misjudged me as incapable during my pregnancy not because they were trying to be malicious, but because they made a mistake in their judgment. I'm still friends with those 2 guys, but I've spent lots of time guilt-tripping them and convincing them just how capable I actually am/was.

    When you say "time to find new friends," does that apply to family too? Cause I have a few relatives on my mom's side that don't seem to have much faith in me...they're the inspiration for all my "poor me, people misjudge me harshly" threads lately.

  19. #19
    God/dess greenidlady1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyDancer1982 View Post
    Greenidlady, I agree with you wholeheartedly. When I was pregnant, I was doing a lot of second guessing myself and doubting my abilities...not because I was incapable, but because I'm always that second-guessing type of person. I'm the type of person who quivers in fear every time I get an STD test or routine doctor's visit, even when I have nothing to fear. I'm the type of person who prolonged breaking up with a complete loser for a total of 7 months -- to the point that HE ended up dumping ME(how undignifying) -- simply because I kept vasilating and second-guessing myself despite knowing that I really didn't want to be with him. That could explain why people had low confidence in me then. But then again, I didn't project ANY lack of confidence this past year when that guy Matt thought I was pregnant...yet he STILL started off a regular phone convo with "Whhhyyyyyy are you happy about this?" Ugh.
    Yeah, but unfornuately once a person establishes you are influenced by them or you doubt yourself they will typically not change the way they orginally viewed you. If they think they can shake you they will, sometimes even unknowingly so. I think humans along with animals are wired to be more dominant if they think someone is passive. I use to let people get over on me a lot. I still do sometimes. I tend to just stay on my own path and throw out anything that doesn't help me along the way. Let it be known that you are your own person now. Only respond to positive affirmation, ignore negativety and condemnation.

  20. #20
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Being seen as ABLE: Double standards

    ^ That is great advice and that corresponds with the way I've been trying to change myself for the past year. I've become more assertive and firm lately and I notice that I've been getting more things as a result. I've also been trying to work on portraying myself the way I want to be perceived: i.e., smart, strong-willed, or a worthwhile date for guys to spend their money on. As a result, I've had guys start to foot the bill on dates instead of having me pay my share...sometimes this change has occured with some of the same people!(including the very guy that knocked me up, who by the way I still associate with 2 yrs later lol) So I think your advice is great. I'm going to keep trying to portray myself as decisive and firm, and hopefully things will do nothing but get even better.

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