That's the winner of the democratic side of the Iowa caucuses! He left Hillary in the dust by 9 points and Edwards had a good second best showing. Good stuff!





That's the winner of the democratic side of the Iowa caucuses! He left Hillary in the dust by 9 points and Edwards had a good second best showing. Good stuff!
“What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE
Yep seen that. Now if she (Hillary) loses New hampshire then she may be in trouble.
That Aura of her not being able to win an election...
Last edited by Pamela; 01-04-2008 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Hillary.
I'm glad. Go Obama.
I'm shocked Hillary came in third, but i expected Obama to win. HOWEVER, the spectre of another Holy-roller in the white house like Huckabee has me quaking in my shoes.
^In-freaking-deed.





All we need is another inexperienced politician in a position of world power. This is a critical timefor the USA to say the least! Well, Obama can actually talk. He talks about "change", but just how is he gonna make that happen? And just what change is he talking about? They all try to make changes, but few can do anything to make those changes better.
I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.
Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.
NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.
well my choice didn't win tonight but I got to say I have never been so happy to be wrong about something.
See I really had my doubts about lily white Iowa going for Obama but he did it, he won their vote! Very cool, indeed![]()
We'll see in New Hampshire, but i think we know how it'll turn out. I think Obama really has a shot and i'm EXCITED!
Looking across the water from Europe, I'm going for Obama as President. I'm not suggesting that he will make many changes, but perhaps, because of his background, he will change the governmental outlook and start concentrating on the problems within the USA rather than meddling outside and spending trillions of dollars which could have wiped out every single trace of poverty in the USA and many other countries in one swoop.





Ironically, Obama is the favored candidate ... of Republicans ! In the same manner that Huckabee is the favorite candidate ... of Democrats. The reason in both cases is that both candidates are considered the most 'defeatable' in a general election when a real cross-section of voters will be involved. Primary election and caucus turnouts are always heavily skewed toward the 'kook fringe' of both parties.





I'm excited. Go Obama!!! Some people say he might not have the experience but, I think the US needs something new. The only reason I'd go for Hillary is to get Bill back into the White House.
I respectfully disagree as to Obama. You're right about Huckabee. Hill-Billary provides Republicans with a treasure trove of material for negative campaigning. Obama does not. If you look at all the post-Reagan elections, it was NEGATIVE campaigning that won it for the Republican.
The only so called negative Obama provides is race but he has been amazing in his ability to transcend his "blackness". There is no anger; no warped sense of entitlement; no clinging to a racial spoils system in his campaign. Any Lee Atwater/Karl Rove attempt to "Willie Horton" him will backfire tremendously and most Republicans know it.
The reason Iowans turned out in droves last night wasn't Hillary. It was Obama. He won an overwhelmingly white Mid-Western state telling both Dems and Republicans that he wil play well nationwide. In New Hampshire, Republicans and Indies can vote in the Dem primary which they will and most of their votes will be for Obama. The REAL battleground will be South Carolina. if Obama beats the wife of the "first Black President" there, it's over for Hillary. Even before Super-Tuesday.
Hilllary has some difficult choices to make and she has to make them NOW. To stop Obama she has to go negative but how rough can she afford to be ? The Barack "HUSSEIN" Obama stuff didn't work. Neither did Obama as cocaine dealer. What's left ? Have Bill trot around South Carolina saying: "Obama is the father of two Black daughters" ? If she waits until Super-Tuesday, it may be too late to stop him
I am so freaking happy about this. I am bouncing up and down.
I don't know this was was just the start of a rather nasty run.
I see this (when i have bothered watching) a few times the one who taks off falls behind. I like Obama, i like Hillary too. I think Hillary has more experience, and that is what is importnat to me. I think her being a woman (i really do, women get emotional during a crisis and all that shit) is a problem and her husband (although he was well liked)
Watch Hillary take off. We have lots of time. She will do well





This isn't the area that Obama is vulnerable from attacks by Republicans ... although he HAS been the victim of such attacks from fellow Democrats i.e. the 'Magic Negro' editorial -->I respectfully disagree as to Obama. You're right about Huckabee. Hill-Billary provides Republicans with a treasure trove of material for negative campaigning. Obama does not. If you look at all the post-Reagan elections, it was NEGATIVE campaigning that won it for the Republican.
The only so called negative Obama provides is race but he has been amazing in his ability to transcend his "blackness". There is no anger; no warped sense of entitlement; no clinging to a racial spoils system in his campaign. Any Lee Atwater/Karl Rove attempt to "Willie Horton" him will backfire tremendously and most Republicans know it.
The reason that Republican mentors think Obama is vulnerable in a general election are centered on far more basic issues ... as in Obama's experience / credentials in foreign policy, management, economics, military etc., or more specifically the lack thereof. If you put aside all of the flash point issues, Republican mentors are assuming that Americans will ultimately remember that Obama has 2 years of US senate experience, a few years as an Illinois state senator, a few years as a 'state' college professor, authorship of a couple of books, and a degree from Harvard Law School as his entire basis for claiming 'presidentiality'. In a nutshell, it will be very simple to point out that Obama is more or less a classical liberal intellectual with little or no 'real world' experience doing anything outside the walls of universities or gov't buildings. It will also be fairly simple to point out that the last time America had a president with similar qualifications (Woodrow Willson) we wound up with an income tax, with a federal reserve bank (that is privately owned), with a military draft, with 117,000 US military casualties in World War One, and with a legacy that led quickly to World War Two !
According to the 'tin foil hat' crowd, the only real worry for Republicans in terms of Obama's electibility as president stems from the possible degree to which 'white guilt' may play a significant role in creating an 'affirmative action' voting block during the general election - a voting block who will support Obama simply because he is a black man, irregardless of presidential qualifications.
It should really be pointed out that primary election season in general, and this year's primary election season in particular, pretty much ignores inter-party debating of important issues to the US general public in favor of intra-party debating of issues that are mostly important to the primary voters of each party. While pleasing the primary voters (who arguably over-represent the 'kook fringe' of each party) may lead to selection of convention delegates, it really does nothing to guarantee that the victors in primary elections will ultimately wind up receiving the endorsement of the national party when convention season rolls around. By that time, inter-party debating of important issues to the US general public DOES take on a much greater importance. Thus Obama's calls for greater social spending in urban areas, support of a 'carbon tax', consensus of allies foreign policy, no real stated defense policy re islamic terrorists, and an ultimate willingness to raise taxes rather than cut gov't spending, will all become issues for inter-party debate once the primary election season is behind us, and will become legitimately attackable by Republicans without fear of being called racists (as would be the case at this particular point in time).
However, it remains to be seen whether the Democratic party 'bosses' will come to the conclusion that Obama is the most 'electable' candidate thus giving him the Democratic nomination. Republicans will not have to worry about making legitimate attacks on Obama's experience / credentials / policies if the Democratic party 'bosses' choose to go in a different direction. The 'tin foil hat' crowd will tell you that THIS is actually Obama's biggest challenge.
However, if he does make it past the convention, then you're likely to see criticism of Obama along the following lines ...
I only point this very extreme line of criticism out as a reminder of what happened to popular Democratic candidates like Ned Lamont who appeal to the party's 'kook fringe', and who get the Democratic party's nomination, but who cannot carry the support of American Jews when general election time rolls around.
~
Last edited by Melonie; 01-04-2008 at 11:16 AM.





I wish more states would allow independents to vote in the primaries. Certainly things would be more objective and middle-of-the-road. As it is, mostly the party zealots vote in primaries, leading to the fringes having more clout.
Last edited by threlayer; 01-05-2008 at 05:33 PM.
I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.
Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.
NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.
Again, in a "normal" election year I would agree with you 100%. I would argue that this is NOT such a "normal" year and that Obama generates sufficient enthusiasm and hope for real, meaningful change that he can trump the "experience" issue. If he's smart, and he's proven to be so far, he can shrewdly harken back to another fellow from Illinois who if I'm not mistaken had one term as a State Legislator & one term in the House before being elected
Prez. LINCOLN ! JFK was not much more experienced than Obama, en toto.
You're right about the Primary process and how it empowers the fringes of each party BUT Obama can and will do some standard tacking to the right during the General Election. More importantly you are completely overemphasizing the power, role and importance of so-called "party bosses". It just doesn't exist anymore except in a few lonely out posts like CHICAGO. The Primary process plus independent fundraising have made the party bosses obsolete dinosaurs politically. They OPPOSED Obama in the Dem. Primary for Senate in '04 and he won going away.
In Iowa, Obama DID bring out a LOT of "new" voters. People who had NEVER
caucused before. And not just college "yoots". That does NOT go unnoticed by
political pros. And he did it in a state that's 2% Black.
The real wild card is Edwards. When his campaign bites the dust who will he throw his support to ? If he's been remotely sincere about wanting to change the
Washington culture it will be Obama.
...Generalizations much? I don't get emotional during a crisis, and if I'm an 18-yr-old stripper I think Hillary Rodham Clinton can control her "feminine weakness"
BTW this is kind of interesting: I was recently doing volunteer work for the San Diego Democratic Party, and at one point they had me entering in donor information. Interestingly enough, Obama and Clinton got the majority of any kind of cash donations, but Obama got substantial Republican support where Hillary did not.





well ... consider this also --- Lincoln didn't survive a second term as president, and Kennedy didn't survive a first term as president. At that rate Obama probably wouldn't survive from election day to inauguration day ! I'm not implying anything, just pointing out a trend ... However, if Hilary was Barack's vice presidential running mate, there might be some additional reason for worry along these lines ! Again I'm not implying anything, just pointing out a trend ( )...he can shrewdly harken back to another fellow from Illinois who if I'm not mistaken had one term as a State Legislator & one term in the House before being elected
Prez. LINCOLN ! JFK was not much more experienced than Obama, en toto.
I don't find this surprising at all ... according to Republican mentors an Obama candidacy offers the best chance for a Republican president , whereas Hilary is potentially a difficult presidential candidate for any Republican to oppose from a pragmatic standpoint !I was recently doing volunteer work for the San Diego Democratic Party, and at one point they had me entering in donor information. Interestingly enough, Obama and Clinton got the majority of any kind of cash donations, but Obama got substantial Republican support where Hillary did not.
What about Republicans, like me, who are fed up with science denying, busybody
Christers having ruined what used to be OUR party ?
What about Republicans who truly want a less reckless , more realistic foreign policy ?
How about those who are in substantial agreement with Obama on economic and tax policy ?
Or those who can see the inherent decency of the man ? In contrast to Hillary.
Yea it came across that way. Sad, but true. I stand in line at the grocery store and hear people talking. They say we need a BLACK president now, it's about time, experience...."ah he will learn as he goes along"..wtf?
And Hillary, same crowd. "Women get periods, ah she's too old (something along these lines) but she's a woman, what will the world think if we have a woman who is president, i don't care how much experience she SEEMS to have"!
I mean i like them both, really! I about cried when Obama was talking about his mother dying of cancer but looking at those insurance claims...
And i like Hillary. I (at this time) like her better. But we need to get beyond friggin colour and sex and look at them as just people who can bring something better to the plate. That is who is getting my vote. I would like either one to be president, but not based on sex or colour....I hear this shit...that is messed up.
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