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Thread: Freedom of speech

  1. #1
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Freedom of speech

    Causing riots in college symposiums is not enough for the lefties.

    Now they have a new way of demonstrating speech:

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    some speech is 'freer' than other speech !

  3. #3
    sun child
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    I think it's irresponsible to assume that the fire was started by "lefties." Or did I miss something?

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    ^^^ pure coincidence no doubt !

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    The real outrage is that punks like this usually get away with it. Their colleges and universities rarely if ever punish interference with unpopular "right-wing"; conservative or traditional speech BUT heaven help the heckler of a leftist.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Where do you get "lefties" from that? Maybe it was the sex offenders? Maybe it was NAMBLA. And the video I saw had nothing to do with colleges or universities - why would they punish anyone? I mean, it's a police matter.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Where do you get "lefties" from that? Maybe it was the sex offenders? Maybe it was NAMBLA. And the video I saw had nothing to do with colleges or universities - why would they punish anyone? I mean, it's a police matter.
    The recent record of Academia in the U.S. is NOT one of tolerance.Students have repeatedly disrupted lectures given by conservative speakers and have not been punished. At one school they stole and destroyed an entire press run of the college paper rather than let their fellow students read an article they didn't like. They were not punished. The "heckler's veto" is alive and well on many College campuses.

    Nat Hentoff has documented most of the worst abuses of so called "Academic Freedom" in his book "Free Speech for Me But Not For Thee". There is also a Foundation (whose name eludes me) that represents traditionalists and others facing University sanctions for exercising free speech.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    I was thinking of F.I.R.E. - the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    The recent record of Academia in the U.S. is NOT one of tolerance.Students have repeatedly disrupted lectures given by conservative speakers and have not been punished. At one school they stole and destroyed an entire press run of the college paper rather than let their fellow students read an article they didn't like. They were not punished. The "heckler's veto" is alive and well on many College campuses.

    Nat Hentoff has documented most of the worst abuses of so called "Academic Freedom" in his book "Free Speech for Me But Not For Thee". There is also a Foundation (whose name eludes me) that represents traditionalists and others facing University sanctions for exercising free speech.
    What does that have to do with the news clip linked here? In that there was no mention of college, students, or "lefties" - and colleges certainly shouldn't be trying to exert any kind of investigative or punitive jurisdiction over setting people's cars on fire - especially absent any connection to a... you know. College. Like I said - maybe the sex offenders were all "hey - we've paid our debt to society. Don't lump us in with the illegals, you asshole." So again - where do you get "college" or "lefties" from this story?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Tolerance of intolerance is being kept alive by our colleges and universities.

    what happened in the video is actually part of a raging debate in the Norfolk- Va.Beach area over some high-profile crimes being committed by Illegal Immigrants and the history of both cities as "sanctuaries". Why should a property owner advertising that he respects law & order and wants prospective tenants to do likewise experience ANY backlash ? WHERE do folks get the idea that it's O.K.
    to steal a sign you don't like or even burn a car ?

    It is on our college campuses that we most often see similar type behavior in response to unpopular speech although fortunately it usually doesn't involve arson. It does usually include Disturbing the Peace; Harassment; verbal assaults and intimidation and sometimes actual violence.

  11. #11
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    So... you mean it has nothing to do with colleges and universities or lefties or righties and you were just looking for an excuse to pontificate about you don't like about universities? Okay. Gotcha. Sorry, dude but "well similar things that aren't really all that similar also happen on college campuses" isn't even a tenuous link - there is just no link at all.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    So... you mean it has nothing to do with colleges and universities or lefties or righties and you were just looking for an excuse to pontificate about you don't like about universities? Okay. Gotcha. Sorry, dude but "well similar things that aren't really all that similar also happen on college campuses" isn't even a tenuous link - there is just no link at all.
    How I WISH you were correct. Please read up on all too many incidents of leftist intolerance and THEN tell me that. READ Hentoff's book and numerous columns. Check out F.I.R.E.'s website. Review all the high profile crimes in the Tidewater area committed by Illegals- many heartbreaking and tragic.

    I argue for tolerance of almost ALL speech. Especially that which we don't like or don't agree with. I argue for respect for LAW; even those we don't like and don't agree with. There are PROPER ways to change them.

  13. #13
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Dude - I'm not arguing for the rights of people to set fire to cars. I'm simply saying - the rather facially obvious fact - that the incident referred to has nothing to do with university politics. I mean you don't even have any real evidence that this is "leftist intolerance." It could be sex offender intolerance. You can't just attribute everything you don't like to university and "lefties" and still expect to make sense.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Dude - I'm not arguing for the rights of people to set fire to cars. I'm simply saying - the rather facially obvious fact - that the incident referred to has nothing to do with university politics. I mean you don't even have any real evidence that this is "leftist intolerance." It could be sex offender intolerance. You can't just attribute everything you don't like to university and "lefties" and still expect to make sense.
    Oh ? Did YOU watch the video ? Do YOU think it was done by someone who
    agreed with the property owner ? You did catch the part as to how this was the culminating event in a string of incidents ?

  15. #15
    sun child
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    What exactly was that string of events? The sign being stolen multiple times before the car was set on fire? Other vandalism? If this is what you're talking about it I also have not been convinced that this was a leftist attack. Obviously it was done by someone that disagreed with the sign and obviously Jenny watched the video. You just have no argument here.

  16. #16
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    OK, here's the clip summary, and I want that last couple minutes of my life back.

    A guy with a rental home has "No illegals. No sex offenders" on a sign by the "For rent" sign. He says the former "No" sign was stolen, so the current one is chained to the porch. The car in front of the house was torched and totaled.

    We don't know if the torching was done by an upset immigrant, legal or otherwise, or an upset sex offender, or a vandal/pyro who thought they could get away with it because the finger would be pointed elsewhere (if so, they were right). We don't know if the arsonist(s) was a leftie or a rightie. From the video, we don't know if a liberal-leaning university is within 100 miles of the incident.

    What we have is an act of arson on someone who has political signs up. Yes, we can infer that it's probable that it came from someone with an opposing view. How we get from there to an indictment of an entire side of the political spectrum or institutions of higher learning is over a bridge made of straw. Wet straw.

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    the way this this topic has been presented just goes to show that some will automatically blame whatever group it is they despise for all the ills in the world

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Tara_SW View Post
    the way this this topic has been presented just goes to show that some will automatically blame whatever group it is they despise for all the ills in the world.
    Personally. I blame the strippers. Oh, and Jessica Simpson.

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Personally. I blame the strippers. Oh, and Jessica Simpson.
    tehehe. you always seem to have the most wicked sense of humor

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    Causing riots in college symposiums is not enough for the lefties.

    I don't understand how you know this from the news program that was playing. Did I miss another article?

    It sounds like the sign pissed off some registered sex offenders or illegal aliens. What party are criminals most likely to join?

    Are you talking about the riots at a University in Nigeria over the alleged abuse of a Koran in November?

    Do you see how that statement could be construed as narrow minded and bigoted against many of our forum members here? I'd be willing to bet that rightie inspired violence happens at an equal rate.


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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    I love a shot at the left as much as the next guy, but even I'm not sure that it fits in this case.

    For all we know it was a past tenant the guy ripped off...

  22. #22
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Oh come on now people. And people say I am stretching credibility.

    Nigerian politics is certainly different than over here. Over there a "leftie" is the hand ya use to wipe your ass with.

    This is free speech and debate by lefties in universities today. ( ) Apparently it's called the "Bierhaus Pusche" method of debate I guess. If I don't like what you say - riot. This kind of bullshit violence is used all over the place.

    I find it hard the "sex offender liberation army" would go around burning cars. They are watched pretty closely and after being jailed, publicly listed, questioned about every sex crime that ever happens in the area - the last thing they are gonna do is go out burning cars at night. I find it pretty unlikely the neighborhood is out burning cars for the protection of sex offenders (even the kind busted for peeing in the side of the road.)

    Which leaves us the pro-illegal immigration crowd. Certainly a quiet and demur crowd as they promote lawlessness, protest in our streets under the flag of a foreign nation, and as shown above, factually known to engage in violent action against those they disagree with.

  23. #23
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I love a shot at the left as much as the next guy, but even I'm not sure that it fits in this case.

    For all we know it was a past tenant the guy ripped off...
    He started his harassment of the owner by stealing a series of signs?

    Lefties are known for destroying free speech whenever they can when it comes to people saying something they don't like. Take for example: (Voting against Amendment 2 is against stem cell research - not something I approve of but I also don't approve of destroying people's right to an opinion contrary to mine.)

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    At least Deogol gets the point even if some of you choose not to.

    The vandalism in Virginia; "heckler's vetos" wherever they are employed and other actions by people upset with a particular speaker or message are ALL symptomatic of intolerance for FREEDOM. That's right. Freedom. Yours, mine,EVERYONE'S .

    For some time now we have permitted people upset with someone's else's free expression to SUBSTITUTE violence or the threat thereof for reasoned debate. Rather than engage ; some prefer to simply try to silence the speech they do not like by "any means necessary". All too often, without sanction. The very fact that A. they are are upset and B. the speech that upsets them is a minority view
    (or there is a substantial minority that disagrees with said speech) somehow EXCUSES conduct that would otherwise be clearly criminal and NOT TOLERATED.

    The sign stealing and car burning in Norfolk is a SYMPTOM of a much larger problem. Unless of course you think it's all just a bunch of amazing coincidences.

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    Default Re: Freedom of speech

    For some time now we have permitted people upset with someone's else's free expression to SUBSTITUTE violence or the threat thereof for reasoned debate.
    We have? Who is this WE? Are you talking the neo-cons and terrorism or just what else? Really - sign burning? Why so upset over this vandalism?

    Never mind answering.

    the way this this topic has been presented just goes to show that some will automatically blame whatever group it is they despise for all the ills in the world
    You got that right!
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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