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Thread: Hillary Reality Check

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Hillary Reality Check

    I've asked in other threads: "Does anyone really like Hillary ? " and so far no one has been able to cite a single likeable or endearing quality.
    I've also asked: "What has she actually accomplished in her ' 35 years of fighting for change' and no one has been able to cite anything.
    So now let me ask the million dollar ( or in Hillary's case the TRILLION dollar question )- If she had absolutely no connection to Bill whatsoever; would you vote for her ? If her name were "Hillary Smith" and she was just an eight year Senator from New York without a single substantive piece of legislation with her name on it having been passed; would you give her any serious consideration at all ?

    It's my guess that at least half her support is really based on affection and nostalgia for Bill. That plenty of her supporters think they're really voting for him. And some of them think Bill will really be running the show behind the scenes. In between mounting chubby interns of course.

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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    ^^^I'm starting to think that you don't like Hillary too much.

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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    There is some validity to this point. It is also a fact that she was very much involved in her husbands Presidency and decision making. I believe much of her support comes from this fact and because her economic policies promise to be similar.

    Many women also get up in arms because half of the male population wouldn't vote for her if she was up against a trained MALE monkey.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head View Post
    ^^^I'm starting to think that you don't like Hillary too much.
    Huh ? I worship the Whitewater; I mean swampwater she walks on.

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    God/dess pookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    My bf seems to like her a bit. he would prolly vote for her he if he was an ami.




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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
    There is some validity to this point. It is also a fact that she was very much involved in her husbands Presidency and decision making. I believe much of her support comes from this fact and because her economic policies promise to be similar.

    Many women also get up in arms because half of the male population wouldn't vote for her if she was up against a trained MALE monkey.
    You must know some things the rest of us don't. Hillary NEVER had a security clearance when Bill was President so she was never privy to a host of classified info.
    If, IF she had a position on hitting Osama or retaliating for the Cole she certainly kept quiet about it. I don't recall her position on acting to prevent genocide in Rwanda ? Do you ?
    Name one thing Bill ( presumably with Hillary's input ) did about anytrhing in eight years.
    She WAS in charge of the Attorney General appt. and botched it. Her first 2 nominees had to drop out and her 3rd ( Reno) was in charge of the Waco massacre and other fiascos.
    She also headed Bill's Health Care Task Force and we saw how well that worked out. Worse yet, Hillary and Bill just walked away from the issue after being initially stymied. Is that what we want in a President ? Someone who just packs up her marbles and goes home the first time solmething doesn't go her way ?

    Actually, if you really listen to her, Hillary's programs go far beyond anything Bill ever proposed or supported. And in light of some current economic realiities; I'd like to hear HOW she proposes to pay for them.

    Btw, it's not just males who say they would not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. Many women take that position as well. She has the highest negatives of any major candidate.

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    Veteran Member Smoothcat's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Someone should look up the exact quote Chris Matthews (Hardball) said about her. Remember, he's a lifelong Democrat, but he said she was elected simply because her husband had affairs and people felt sorry for her. Ouch. I think there's a reason so many top Democrats (and average voters) want another candidate to choose from. (If Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana had run, he could be the nominee by now, except the far left would have tried to stop him.)

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by pookie View Post
    My bf seems to like her a bit. he would prolly vote for her he if he was an ami.
    Would you please ask him why ? WHAT does he like about her ? Thank you.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothcat View Post
    Someone should look up the exact quote Chris Matthews (Hardball) said about her. Remember, he's a lifelong Democrat, but he said she was elected simply because her husband had affairs and people felt sorry for her. Ouch.
    A. He said it as a joke. B. There was some truth to it.

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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Hey Eric,
    I said I like Hillary in your previous post. You simply didn't agree with me. Which you have every right to do, but just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't make that opinion invalid. I still luv ya Eric.
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    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    The reason the Attorney General nominations, the Health Care Task Force, as well as many other initiatives were "botched" was because of the Republican obstructionism and the media following along and attacking Bill and Hillary from the moment the Presidential campaign began.

    And spending millions of dollars of taxpayer money on investigation after investigation and finding NOTHING, and proceeding with an impeachment, while President Clinton had the highest approval ratings of any modern president?

    That's why they're liked. People see someone getting attacked, over and over, for NOTHING, and they tend to be sympathetic. I know that's one of the reasons I like Hillary, and Bill. They've taken a beating and they're still standing. Bill is doing good work, and Hillary is the front-runner for the most powerful office in the world. I like Hillary because she's a winner.

    Not that I expect Mr. Stoner to change his mind. He's asking questions whose answers he doesn't want to hear. So far he's just responded with the same old jokes and snark, and hiding his fear behind Mr. Limbaugh's patented "It's just a joke, folks!"

    But it's nice to see his Republican authoritarianism out in the open.
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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    The reason the Attorney General nominations, the Health Care Task Force, as well as many other initiatives were "botched" was because of the Republican obstructionism and the media following along and attacking Bill and Hillary from the moment the Presidential campaign began.

    And spending millions of dollars of taxpayer money on investigation after investigation and finding NOTHING, and proceeding with an impeachment, while President Clinton had the highest approval ratings of any modern president?

    That's why they're liked. People see someone getting attacked, over and over, for NOTHING, and they tend to be sympathetic. I know that's one of the reasons I like Hillary, and Bill. They've taken a beating and they're still standing. Bill is doing good work, and Hillary is the front-runner for the most powerful office in the world. I like Hillary because she's a winner.

    Not that I expect Mr. Stoner to change his mind. He's asking questions whose answers he doesn't want to hear. So far he's just responded with the same old jokes and snark, and hiding his fear behind Mr. Limbaugh's patented "It's just a joke, folks!"

    But it's nice to see his Republican authoritarianism out in the open.
    I'm sorry but you're re-writing history. The A.G. nominees ( Baird and Wood ) had to withdraw after the press revealed they both hired nannies with shaky Immigration status and off-the-books treatment.

    The investigations of the Clintons found PLENTY. Bill was found in contempt of court and was disbarred. It was Hillary who decided NOT to settle with Paula Jones directly leading to the whole Monica mess.

    Republican Authoritarianism ? If you bothered reading ; actually READING my posts you'd see that I am a Constitutional Libertarian tempered by practical realism.

    Did it ever occur to you that the Clintons bring a lot of problems on themselves ? That Bill's sexual compulsions and inability to control them disqualify him as Presidential timber ? Btw, do you approve of his gross distotrions of Obama's record ?
    Limbaugh is NOT supporting Obama. He doesn't even like McCain. I THINK he likes Romney only because Brownback dropped out and Hunter hasn't got a prayer. If Romney were a Dem. Limbaugh would flay him for his flip-flops. I've been supporting Obama on this Bd. (and with my wallet) for over a year. Some "Republican Authoritarian".

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I've asked in other threads: &quotoes anyone really like Hillary ? " and so far no one has been able to cite a single likeable or endearing quality.
    I've also asked: 'What has she actually accomplished in her ' 35 years of fighting for change' and no one has been able to cite anything.
    that is a completeand total lie. people cited plenty of things. You just choose not to acknowledge any of it. But whatever, continue on with your little you hate Hillary diatribe anyway. oh and btw congrats to you for being the first person added to my ignore list. Now carry on you wayward son you

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    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    See?

    You don't want to hear my answer - that I like Bill and Hillary because they've been unfairly and brutally attacked by the media and yet they're still standing and, in fact, as popular and powerful as ever.

    You don't want to hear anyone's answer to the question you posed.

    You just want to attack President and Senator Clinton, and this thread is your excuse for doing so.

    And, please - "Constitutional Libertarians" are a part of the (now-disintegrating) Republican coalition. Your protests are weak tea.

    I kinda figured all that before I answered but now I know. I'm done with this thread, and you, Mr. Stoner.
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Apparently I misspoke. I meant that she was influential to his decisions and policies, not that she had clearance to advise him on potentially volital foreign relations issues.

    Quote:
    "Some critics called it inappropriate for the First Lady to play a central role in matters of public policy. Supporters pointed out that Clinton's role in policy was no different from that of other White House advisors and that voters were well aware that she would play an active role in her husband's Presidency."

    "Bill Clinton's campaign promise of "two for the price of one" led opponents to refer derisively to the Clintons as "co-presidents", or sometimes "Billary"."

    Her accomplishments as First Lady also include the State Children's Health Insurance Program and the Adoption and Safe Families Act.

    As a NY senator she worked to secure about $20 billion for cleaning up and rebuilding the Trade Center, and helped lead the investigation into the health problems of the first responders. She introduced the bill to get 80,000 additional troups added to the army to help with the Iraq disaster. She has also supported fiscal responsibility by voting against Bush's ridiculous tax cuts.

    I think I'll sign out of this thread before it becomes a mudslinging match. I just didn't want to leave without showing I had at least a modicum of intelligence.

    BTW- I'm not a huge Clinton fangirl. I just think she is my fav of the 2 top contenders.

    I was just informed by someone I thought to be an enlightened man that he "didn't think a woman could be effective as President." Makes me want to stab something....GRRRR

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    See?

    You don't want to hear my answer - that I like Bill and Hillary because they've been unfairly and brutally attacked by the media and yet they're still standing and, in fact, as popular and powerful as ever.

    You don't want to hear anyone's answer to the question you posed.

    You just want to attack President and Senator Clinton, and this thread is your excuse for doing so.

    And, please - "Constitutional Libertarians" are a part of the (now-disintegrating) Republican coalition. Your protests are weak tea.

    I kinda figured all that before I answered but now I know. I'm done with this thread, and you, Mr. Stoner.

    I'm sorry. After so many years of the "Clinton News Network"; Eleanor Rodham Clift and now Paul "I Love Hillary" Krugman it's hard for me to discern the media bias against the Clintons.

    What you see as her ( their ) courage or perseverance ; I see self involvement and ambition. THAT is strictly a matter of opinion afaic. Did unfair media attacks cause you to like Reagan ?

    I've made no secret of my disgust with Bill and dislike and distrust of Hillary.

    Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there is something Hillary really did accomplish that I've overlooked ? Maybe she has demonstrated an admirable and genuine quality that was NOT calculated to get her votes ? An actual instance of POLITICAL COURAGE on her part where she stuck to her principles and didn't tack in accord with the latest prevailing political wind or trendy focus group. Maybe she really does love Bill and stayed with him without regard for political consequence or advantage; that they never had a "deal" and Hillary cares ; really cares about all the little people.

    NAH !
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 01-22-2008 at 08:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    See?

    You don't want to hear my answer - that I like Bill and Hillary because they've been unfairly and brutally attacked by the media and yet they're still standing and, in fact, as popular and powerful as ever.

    You don't want to hear anyone's answer to the question you posed.

    You just want to attack President and Senator Clinton, and this thread is your excuse for doing so.

    And, please - "Constitutional Libertarians" are a part of the (now-disintegrating) Republican coalition. Your protests are weak tea.

    I kinda figured all that before I answered but now I know. I'm done with this thread, and you, Mr. Stoner.
    Your answer makes no sense. Every President is brutally attacked by the Media, usually unfairly. It's a price you pay for being President. Besides the Clintons deserved every shot they got, besides, the media is totally skewed to the left.

    YOU don't want to listen to anyone else's argument, you just want to post and have everyone agree. You're not even posting on fact, it's all your opinion.

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    God/dess xdamage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    To the degree that I would vote subjectively, based purely on emotion, no she doesn't strike me as charismatic or someone I would "like". Sadly, that is probably a fairly poor reason to vote or not vote for her, except to the degree it impacts on her ability to lead. If the reality is others, particularly those who don't work for her, feel the same, it will impact on her ability to lead.

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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post

    It's my guess that at least half her support is really based on affection and nostalgia for Bill. That plenty of her supporters think they're really voting for him. And some of them think Bill will really be running the show behind the scenes. In between mounting chubby interns of course.

    I think so to Eric and may I add a little extra is coming from her being a woman. Some people really cant see past the vagina. ( That is because it is magic). Oh she is a woman, she will do what she said she is going to do!( Womwn rule) Vote Hilliary, because you are voting for women rights and power. Do you see how many male hating women are backing her! Or let say women who are tierd of been treated unfairly at the job.

    Oh we are going to vote for her, because this will change some of the sexist issue in the work place. ( But it won't) Yes America is Sexist and racist. We cant denie it! But really who is the best person for the job. Who is going to fix that pot smoking air head, mess he created in office.
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  20. #20
    sun child
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    I bet Hillary doesn't leave space marks between her sentences and her question marks and arbitrarily capitalize whole words. That's really effin' annoying. Yeah, you should really stick to xenophobia. Sorry, I just can't respect someone that arbitrarily capitalizes words like authoritarianism. Man, this is up there with that thread about "leftist car arson." Oh, and you're picking on Paul Krugman? How pedestrian. Seriously, can't you do better than that?

  21. #21
    sun child
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Waco massacre? Wow. You're out there!

  22. #22
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Hillary sure is being heard. Obama seems to be catching on, jokes after the fight about Bill etc. Sure she laughed, but he's doing anything to be president.

    Hillary is loud and stands up to whatever is thrown at her, no pausing.

    She is worthy of listening to imo. I watched that debate sooo many times my head is spinning. Poor Edwards, had to remind them there was a 3rd person there...that was cute and no doubt gave him added votes!

    I think after watching Hillary more now, she shows confidence strongly and seems to be able to get jobs done, as she showed with Obama. She wont back down. That makes a good president. One who fights for what they believe. I like what she is fighting for if she becomes president, and she is showing us she is ready AND capable.

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    Banned jasmine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela View Post
    Hillary sure is being heard. Obama seems to be catching on, jokes after the fight about Bill etc. Sure she laughed, but he's doing anything to be president.

    Hillary is loud and stands up to whatever is thrown at her, no pausing.

    She is worthy of listening to imo. I watched that debate sooo many times my head is spinning. Poor Edwards, had to remind them there was a 3rd person there...that was cute and no doubt gave him added votes!

    I think after watching Hillary more now, she shows confidence strongly and seems to be able to get jobs done, as she showed with Obama. She wont back down. That makes a good president. One who fights for what they believe. I like what she is fighting for if she becomes president, and she is showing us she is ready AND capable.
    I agree that this is a wonderful trait for a President and leader to have. Unfortunately, many men (& some women) in this country still believe we are in the 1950's and women can either be spineless or they are considered cold bitches. The hostility toward her has really been appalling.

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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
    I agree that this is a wonderful trait for a President and leader to have. Unfortunately, many men (& some women) in this country still believe we are in the 1950's and women can either be spineless or they are considered cold bitches. The hostility toward her has really been appalling.
    Those are wonderful traits for a president to have. To bad so many men and women think that anyone who doesn't like Hillary is a "sexist woman oppressor" and tend to give her traits that she deosn't actually have.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Reality Check

    Quote Originally Posted by sun child View Post
    I bet Hillary doesn't leave space marks between her sentences and her question marks and arbitrarily capitalize whole words. That's really effin' annoying. Yeah, you should really stick to xenophobia. Sorry, I just can't respect someone that arbitrarily capitalizes words like authoritarianism. Man, this is up there with that thread about "leftist car arson." Oh, and you're picking on Paul Krugman? How pedestrian. Seriously, can't you do better than that?
    Krugman is a horse's ass who cherry picks stats to back up his socialist dogma
    without ever showing the other side of the coin- e.g. European social programs.
    His columns are routinely devoted to critiquing Obama and boosting Hillary.

    As for my punctuation; I'll try to improve. Any other helpful hints you'd like to share?

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