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Thread: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

  1. #1
    MsQwerty
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    Default When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Interesting.


    When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy: Can Men Ever Escape Paternity Obligations?
    ----
    Wednesday, Mar. 09, 2005
    In a lawsuit against his ex-girlfriend, Richard O. Phillips has alleged that about six years ago, he engaged in oral sex with her. Unbeknownst to Phillips, he says, his girlfriend, Sharon Irons, allegedly saved the resulting semen and used it to inseminate herself. A pregnancy resulted, Irons gave birth to a baby, and DNA tests proved Phillips to be the genetic father.

    Snip.

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    God/dess leilanicandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by MsQwerty View Post
    Interesting.


    When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy: Can Men Ever Escape Paternity Obligations?
    By SHERRY F. COLB
    ----
    Wednesday, Mar. 09, 2005
    In a lawsuit against his ex-girlfriend, Richard O. Phillips has alleged that about six years ago, he engaged in oral sex with her. Unbeknownst to Phillips, he says, his girlfriend, Sharon Irons, allegedly saved the resulting semen and used it to inseminate herself. A pregnancy resulted, Irons gave birth to a baby, and DNA tests proved Phillips to be the genetic father.

    Snip.



    http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20050309.html

    Well there gose the rumor. When seman hits air the sperms dies.
    So there for you cant get pregnant. This was why it was so ever not possible not to get pregnant with your panties on. If you was grinding!
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  3. #3
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    semen does not die when it hits air!!!! that is soooooo dumb. seriously, when a guy sells er.... donates.... sperm to a sperm bank, he jacks off into a container. and that sperm is used to inseminate a woman.

    ghhhh!!!

    I bet he fucked her, and this is his ploy to get out of paying child support.

    however, I'm sure there have been prenty of pregnancies resulting from a woman's deciet. I don't think it's right, but seriously, if a man doesn't want to take the risk, he should keep it in his pants, or control where his semen goes!!!!

  4. #4
    Featured Member AznExtasy's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    How would this work? He's suing her, but if that's his child, wouldn't he have to pay child support anyway? Doesn't he end up giving her money in the end? Or no?

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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    It seems to me that if a DNA test proves he is the father, he has to pay child support no matter how the child came to be, right? He's still the father, and the kid still needs to eat. Whether or not the chick involved is THAT looney and is capable of responsible child-rearing is another issue.

  6. #6
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    I seriously doubt the truth and viability of this claim. I mean, while the sperm in semen don't die when it hits the air it doesn't survive for long, and an average person doesn't have the ability to preserve it and I'm pretty sure that spitting in it would not make it a viable sample to preserve in any case. She is treating as true only as a model for a debate.

    I would suggest that she is engaging in a discourse of family law that is generally considered to be dead; (check her biography - family law isn't really her thing) in which support is constructed and understood as punitive in some way; she is seeking out situations in which "it isn't the guy's fault". Fault is not the point. I would further suggest that she conflates the ability of men to control "paternity" with the ability to control "pregnancy". Men don't get pregnant and therefore cannot control the outcome of pregnancy. They have the same parental rights as women.

    I would further suggest that a public policy stance of this kind of issue is not necessary until a) it is a social problem and b)until it is possible. I had this conversation with my roommate after an episode of law and order. Ultimately a woman is guaranteed nothing by having a baby; it is not statistically unlikely that even if support was ordered she would never get it. There is a weird fear of women "trapping" men because men are scared out of their minds over something that they can't control, not because this is something that actually happens (not surprising that the same people who have come up with the term "financial abortion" are also the one's who want to be able to issue injunctions against actual abortions, is it?)
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  7. #7
    Tauries
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Since this is in question let's see what the net says;




    "Sperm outside of the body can live for around 20 minutes to an hour." Thus it is clearly well within the realm of possibility for a female to "steal" sperm and insemenate herself.....as far as this case goes the only thing I find odd is the guy waited 6 years to start trying to escape this wily females trap...far too long to be believable in my eyes.

  8. #8
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Interesting - I didn't know it was that long. However, I still think if you consulting a specialist (although apparently the claimant is a doctor) about the viability of inseminating yourself with sperm that has been spit into some receptacle and left for some amount of time and then combine it with the necessity of doing it without someone's knowledge.... I think it is very unlikely. However - I will amend my "possible" statement from before, and just go with "outside of the de minimis range of likelihood."

    I think he must have settled - I can't find anything on it after it was decided that he could go forward with part of his case.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    That's why you always make sure she swallows!

  10. #10
    MsQwerty
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    ^^^Lmao!
    Sex e in some places is pretty shite eh? :-D

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    They have the same parental rights as women.
    No, they don't. They haven't in a long, long time.

    Just as men cannot force women to bear children if the woman doesn't want them, men cannot refuse to support children if they don't want to have them, lest they have their wages garnished, their professional licenses revoked or their property seized. Women can either choose to have a child or not--irrespective of a man's prerogative--and expect financial support in return.

    And the notion that men don't get trapped by women is sheer lunacy; 10% of DNA paternity tests in Canada show fraud. It's 30% in the US. Almost one-in-three pregnancies in the US are attributed to fathers who are not raising the kids, and someone else is supporting them by force of law. The case law on the topic is infuriating and well-documented.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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  12. #12
    Pamela
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    No, they don't. They haven't in a long, long time.

    Just as men cannot force women to bear children if the woman doesn't want them, men cannot refuse to support children if they don't want to have them, lest they have their wages garnished, their professional licenses revoked or their property seized. Women can either choose to have a child or not--irrespective of a man's prerogative--and expect financial support in return.

    And the notion that men don't get trapped by women is sheer lunacy; 10% of DNA paternity tests in Canada show fraud. It's 30% in the US. Almost one-in-three pregnancies in the US are attributed to fathers who are not raising the kids, and someone else is supporting them by force of law. The case law on the topic is infuriating and well-documented.
    I have always felt sorry for men regarding these situations. I put a child up for adoption at 36 and kept in touch with the father through the whole process. I only hope he was honest with me regarding adoption. I loved him and that child, but was too damn driven to work and we made a mistake i felt then.

    The agency made it VERY clear the FATHER had not one leg to stand on if our adoption started turning ugly. That was pissing me off. I am glad he and i reached an agreement (father) i hope he is ok with it to this day....i actualy am not, i felt i made a mistake.

  13. #13
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    No, they don't. They haven't in a long, long time.
    Yes they do. They just don't have the same right over pregnancy.

    Just as men cannot force women to bear children if the woman doesn't want them, men cannot refuse to support children if they don't want to have them,
    Again. The difference between controlling pregnancy and controlling parenting. Men can absolutely claim support from women who don't wish to retain custody of their children; they can absolutely claim joint parenting rights, visiting rights etc. or refrain from claiming those rights. A woman cannot simply relinguish responsibility over a child anymore than a man could; if she wanted to surrender it for adoption and he didn't - in most states he will be able to retain custody and claim support. The fact that men cannot choose to end a pregnancy does not mean that they don't have parenting rights. There is a difference, both legally and biologically, between being pregnant and having a child. There is no way of looking at those as the same thing unless you read too many's "father's rights" websites and are, you know, confused.

    And the notion that men don't get trapped by women is sheer lunacy; 10% of DNA paternity tests in Canada show fraud. It's 30% in the US.
    What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Like a woman isn't magic; she cannot know, absent monogamy or a DNA test who fathered her child. Neither can he. This has nothing to do with being "trapped" nor is it proof or even an indication of "fraud." Do you even know what "fraud" is? there is no way that a DNA test alone could show fraud. All it could possibly show is error.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  14. #14
    Pamela
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Whoa Jenny got her post in first.

    Florida is NOT a state that says the father can keep the baby if the mother want's adoption. The mother holds ALL the cards, i picked the family our baby would go to, he had no say. He did not like the family i picked, but he had nothing.... Nada to go on. My body my right. Now if i had that baby he gains SOME rights, still the mother is in control 90% of the time IF she has proved/shown she is a good mother and can support her child.... he pays support and gets joint custody or visitation. Florida is harsh. Been there done it. These closed adoption agencys have lawyers waiting to get the father OUT of the picture... that IS sad. But true.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    You are mistaken. In Florida there is a registry for putative fathers to contest adoptions. It was judicially decided that even if they didn't register, the lack of registration didn't constitute a basis for terminating his parental rights.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Yes they do. They just don't have the same right over pregnancy.


    Again. The difference between controlling pregnancy and controlling parenting. Men can absolutely claim support from women who don't wish to retain custody of their children; they can absolutely claim joint parenting rights, visiting rights etc. or refrain from claiming those rights. A woman cannot simply relinguish responsibility over a child anymore than a man could; if she wanted to surrender it for adoption and he didn't - in most states he will be able to retain custody and claim support. The fact that men cannot choose to end a pregnancy does not mean that they don't have parenting rights. There is a difference, both legally and biologically, between being pregnant and having a child. There is no way of looking at those as the same thing unless you read too many's "father's rights" websites and are, you know, confused.


    What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Like a woman isn't magic; she cannot know, absent monogamy or a DNA test who fathered her child. Neither can he. This has nothing to do with being "trapped" nor is it proof or even an indication of "fraud." Do you even know what "fraud" is? there is no way that a DNA test alone could show fraud. All it could possibly show is error.

    Blah blah blah.

    In the end, the woman can choose to make the man a parent or not a parent.

    She retains the right to become a parent or not become a parent.

    No rationalizing is going to over come this fact of life in this society.

  17. #17
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Oh Deogol. I realize that being rational with you is a waste of time. But really. There is a difference between biological, reproductive rights and financial rights. I realize that this basic fact is not convenient for your construction of men being victimized in society; nonetheless, a fact it remains. You may accept or you may put your fingers in your ears and say "blah, blah, blah, I can't hear you, I can't hear you, biological rights are too the same as financial! Yes they are, yes they are, blah, blah blah, I can't hear you."
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  18. #18
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Oh Deogol. I realize that being rational with you is a waste of time. But really. There is a difference between biological, reproductive rights and financial rights. I realize that this basic fact is not convenient for your construction of men being victimized in society; nonetheless, a fact it remains. You may accept or you may put your fingers in your ears and say "blah, blah, blah, I can't hear you, I can't hear you, biological rights are too the same as financial! Yes they are, yes they are, blah, blah blah, I can't hear you."
    Oh you and I CERTAINLY agree when it comes to a difference between genders when it comes to financial rights, that is for sure.

    Regardless of what you think I think, the fact of the matter is men are declining from marriage and other gender biased institutions in this culture we have.

    I am sorry it is not convenient to YOUR construct of women being victims in this society.

  19. #19
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    Oh you and I CERTAINLY agree when it comes to a difference between genders when it comes to financial rights, that is for sure.
    This seems to follow nothing that I've said.

    Regardless of what you think I think, the fact of the matter is men are declining from marriage and other gender biased institutions in this culture we have.
    I have no opinion on whether men are declining. I personally think it is just as likely that women are declining. But again - not really at issue, and for what it is worth, I think men are perfectly within their rights in not getting married.

    I am sorry it is not convenient to YOUR construct of women being victims in this society.
    I feel confident in saying that you don't know very much about my construct. But regardless - none of this is particularly germane to the subject at hand.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  20. #20
    Pamela
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    You are mistaken. In Florida there is a registry for putative fathers to contest adoptions. It was judicially decided that even if they didn't register, the lack of registration didn't constitute a basis for terminating his parental rights.
    Whoa back up...He tried! His own mother even got involved. They did want the baby if i did not at first. They LOST out. He has a great job and alot going for him....he lost to the lawyers who say NO...it's the birth mothers choice. I have a right to want my baby in a home with TWO parents, with a very nice income. That is why he lost (one of many reasons). He would have been a single parent. Even if he was married at the time, no go! The birth mother calls ALL the shots... I live in Florida. I have been down that road, this is a subject i lived and know. He HAD no rights. Period. He was beaten from the start.

    Do you know when to stop? Seriously. It's sad the system worked this way, but it does. Here in Fl. he had a burning chance in hell keeping the child. I kept him out of delivery and holding her as well at the hospital!

  21. #21
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Pamela - I do not have a wealth of personal anecdotal evidence to draw upon. All I have is a statute, a registry created for men in your ex's position and 3 cases that I found within 2 minutes of googling (I didn't even have to go to Lexis for this). You are mistaken; your information is outdated or was never correct.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  22. #22
    Pamela
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Pamela - I do not have a wealth of personal anecdotal evidence to draw upon. All I have is a statute, a registry created for men in your ex's position and 3 cases that I found within 2 minutes of googling (I didn't even have to go to Lexis for this). You are mistaken; your information is outdated or was never correct.
    Okay. And Jenny i am not the first to slide through the cracks. Laws are made to be broken at times. Again, i lived it. I was indeed teflon. I would opt for perhaps hmmm - not correct for the male. It all worked for me.

  23. #23
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Like a woman isn't magic; she cannot know, absent monogamy or a DNA test who fathered her child. Neither can he. This has nothing to do with being "trapped" nor is it proof or even an indication of "fraud." Do you even know what "fraud" is? there is no way that a DNA test alone could show fraud. All it could possibly show is error.
    Jenny, I know you're not stupid, so don't pretend the rest of us are. If you're going to sit there and tell us that there are no women deliberately deceiving men--for whatever reason--as to whether or not they're the father of the child, there's no point in continuing the discussion. As I said, 30% of births in the US are fraudulent in their paternity.

    If I sell a piece of land with a toxic waste dump buried on the site and fail to disclose that fact, it's fraud. If a woman has a child from another man and you pay for it believing it's your own, and upon disclosure of that fact via DNA, not only is she not charged with fraud, but the man continues to pay for that child per order of the state. If that's not fraud, nothing is.

    Further, your ridiculous separation of pregnancy and parenting rights conveniently ignores the fact that men are still compelled by the government to pay financially--even if it's not their kid biologically, sometimes.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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  24. #24
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Jenny, I know you're not stupid, so don't pretend the rest of us are. If you're going to sit there and tell us that there are no women deliberately deceiving men--for whatever reason--as to whether or not they're the father of the child, there's no point in continuing the discussion. As I said, 30% of births in the US are fraudulent in their paternity.
    Okay. I've clearly misunderstood. What evidence do you have of "fraud"? Like as opposed to mistake? May I... see these "studies"?
    As for "women deceiving men" - I would never tell you that people are not deceiving each other. I would question whether women deceiving men on this particular subject has reached the epidemic proportions that you are claiming here. Let's not conflate all of the universe's deceit into that, mmkay? There is a difference between deceit and fraud. There is a difference between mistake, deceit and fraud. There is a difference between decision you just find unfair, mistake, deceit and fraud. While I'm sure you are very good at whatever you do professionally, I have some fairly serious reservations on your ability (or that of the study or material you are relying on) to distinguish between these things (I mean, based on your assertion that paying someone and being forced to bear a child are the same thing, I question your ability to distinguish facts).

    If I sell a piece of land with a toxic waste dump buried on the site and fail to disclose that fact, it's fraud. If a woman has a child from another man and you pay for it believing it's your own, and upon disclosure of that fact via DNA, not only is she not charged with fraud, but the man continues to pay for that child per order of the state. If that's not fraud, nothing is.
    Okay. So you're telling me that you don't know what fraud is. That's fine - presumably you've never been charged with it, and that's good. But before making these fairly wild assertions, I would think that you should find out what the assertions mean. Because that set of facts is not fraud by any legal definition. Although just my personal take on your rhetoric; I don't think you're going to get anywhere with a family court judge comparing a child to a toxic waste dump. I'd adjust that if I were you.

    Further, your ridiculous separation of pregnancy and parenting rights conveniently ignores the fact that men are still compelled by the government to pay financially--even if it's not their kid biologically, sometimes.
    Well, CO. Family law is determined on a case by case basis on the facts. So if a particular set of facts seem to insist that a person should pay child support even to a child not biologically theirs - in cases of adoption, for example... well, then it is so ordered. That is not fraud, and it is not a violation of rights. If you've cultivated a relationship of dependence with a child for 15 years... sometimes that relationship does take precedence over DNA. I don't see that as such a problem. In fact I think it is weird that you think it is so wrong.
    And CO - simply calling it ridiculous does not demonstrate ridiculousness. The right to choose abortion and the right to exercise parenting rights are founded in different legal principles (the right to security of the person and privacy versus the right to have a family) and different biological principles (the different between an embryo and a living child). I actually think I've pretty effectively demonstrated that the conflation is ridiculous - I mean there is no way to legally or biologically equate having to pay someone with forced pregnancy (or forced abortion). For example - paying your taxes is not an infringement of your reproductive rights. Having to pay something cannot be characterized as implicating your bodily integrity. I would be interested in any actual discussion, argument or demonstration of this "fraud" you speak of or of how somehow pregnancy and child support are "the same thing."
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  25. #25
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy

    Jenny, I wish I were as intelligent as you.

    btw- I do know a woman who got pregnant by decieving the man. She wanted a child that bad, and just was that crazy to do it that way, I guess.

    But she didn't want any child support, she actually had him sign away his parental rights.

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