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Thread: Pious hypocrite arrested

  1. #26
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    They can't handle nudity or "bad" words unless the teacher gives them a lecture beforehand.
    And the reason they're handling it poorly is that they've been told sex and nudity are evil and wrong. If they were informed of the normalcy of sex and nudity, there'd be less giggling and nervous immaturity.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    And the reason they're handling it poorly is that they've been told sex and nudity are evil and wrong. If they were informed of the normalcy of sex and nudity, there'd be less giggling and nervous immaturity.
    That's not fair to say. You think sex and nudity are ok. Some religions feel different, and you average person regardless of religion, is going to say those are private things.

    You think its normal, but others don't. You don't want them to impose there view on you, but who says your view is right?

    And I seriously don't think that most highschool seniors think sex is evil or wrong. But they still aren't mature enough to handle a private thing in public.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Um... the average movie rental is not in a room full of high school students.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    That's not fair to say. You think sex and nudity are ok.
    No shit, on a board for strippers?

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Um... the average movie rental is not in a room full of high school students.
    It was an example responding to peoples direct remarks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Wayward View Post
    No shit, on a board for strippers?
    If you don't get my point, then why respond? If you do get my point, then you're just being an ass.

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    I think people have a right to decide what they want to come into their homes.

    I have thought about the movie thing, and ya know, if you give someone possession of something they are fully capable to do with it as they want. So they don't want any titties with the kiddies in the living room - hey - it's not on Pirates Bay ya know?

    I don't allow smoking in my home - am I a tyrant?

    Penn Jillette allows no alcohol in his home - is he a tyrant?

    Then again, if this were a smoking and alcohol forum we probably would be getting some shit right now.

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by $$$magnet View Post
    I know! $20? Are they effing serious?
    I'd say this is proof all by itself that he knew he was dealing with someone underage and naive about money.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Um... the average movie rental is not in a room full of high school students.
    Actually, a teacher has to go through quite a process to use a rental movie in class, at least in our district.

    First, in elementary school a video must be rated G or PG. In secondary schools, PG 13 is OK if there is no nudity or sex.

    Second, the teacher must show that the movie has relevance to the curriculum. It can't be shown just for entertainment, or it is viewed as competition with the local theatres, who could sue.

    Last, the teacher must write a lesson plan for the video, showing that there is no other way to present this material, and include the activities that lead into it and the followup activites that will come after.

    The only videos I ever used were these:

    I used Cats in my reading class, where Iused it to show how the rhythms of language made words into poetry, poetry into music, and music into dance. I read a poem from T.S.Eliot's Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats, and then I showed the dance from the show that came from the poem. (Every time I showed it, I noticed that all the girls were smiling after Rum Tum Tugger's dance.)

    I used Seven Alone as a culminating activity for a study of the Oregon Trail, and students were to note and write about what was historically accurate and what was not.

    I used Journey to the Center of the Earth as part of the study of plate tectonics and the makeup of the earth to show what people believed about the earth in 1864, and students were to note all the things that were wrong.

    None of these were edited for use in the classroom. I think it is perfectly fine that the students enjoyed watching them as they also learned something.

  9. #34
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    ^^^
    Sure. I think age appropriate movies in schools is a perfectly valid requirement. However, I stand by my comment that the average video rental experience doesn't really need to concern itself with a roomful of teenagers, let alone children.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahMike View Post
    I used Cats in my reading class, where Iused it to show how the rhythms of language made words into poetry, poetry into music, and music into dance. I read a poem from T.S.Eliot's Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats, and then I showed the dance from the show that came from the poem. (Every time I showed it, I noticed that all the girls were smiling after Rum Tum Tugger's dance.)
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    This whole debate remains a very interesting one. I've thought about the fact that movies are routinely edited for television, airplanes and such. I always assumed - and I could very well be totally wrong, so I'd love someone to correct me if that's the case - that this is part of an agreement with the production company. So in some way, deeply buried in the legalese of the contract, the writers and directors are aware of this and approve of this happening.

    I also don't know how creatively involved they actually are in the edited-for-tv versions, like, does Tarantino himself suggest they overdub "cocksucking motherfucker" with "cotton-headed ninnymuggins"? Or is that someone else's job? In either case, it's known to be part of the deal. I still see a third party -one that has nothing to do with the producers or studios or anything - altering and then profiting off of someone else's work without the creator's approval to be bogus to the max.

    I'd love to see what they'd do to Pulp Fiction, though, just for fun. A fifteen-minute silent film?
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I don't get why people are coming so hard down on this place?
    Well, because taking someone else's copyrighted work, editing it to your liking without their permission, and redistributing the edited copies is sort of against the law.

    I mean I get the idea of hating the guy for being a hypocritical perv, but why hate on the people who wanted to see movies "cleaned"?
    Better question. Why do people who want to see movies "cleaned", hate on those of us who who prefer them unaltered. Last I checked, no one on SW was using government power in the form of the FCC to force their standards upon everybody.

    I mean I understand the idea of art and not exposing people to something if there not old enough to handle it. But who and what does this place hurt?
    Umm dude, this place was committing piracy. What they do hurts the people who are not getting properly compensated for their copywritten work. Last I checked, pretty much all religions had a prohibition against stealing, and piracy IS stealing.

    I mean if your a person whos religion prohibits you from seeing certain things, or whatever, but you still want to see a great movie like Titanic or whatever then this place is nice.
    Seeing a great movie like Titanic is not a right. If you want to see it or any other movie, you either buy a ticket, buy or rent the video, or wait for the TV version with content removed that the networks cannot show.

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    You guys are too much. Why post when one side does this, and not the other.
    Wel, if you've got an example of left wing censorship (like the Imus debacle from last year), then post it. Some of us indeed call it both ways.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    Well, because taking someone else's copyrighted work, editing it to your liking without their permission, and redistributing the edited copies is sort of against the law.


    Better question. Why do people who want to see movies "cleaned", hate on those of us who who prefer them unaltered. Last I checked, no one on SW was using government power in the form of the FCC to force their standards upon everybody.


    Umm dude, this place was committing piracy. What they do hurts the people who are not getting properly compensated for their copywritten work. Last I checked, pretty much all religions had a prohibition against stealing, and piracy IS stealing.


    Seeing a great movie like Titanic is not a right. If you want to see it or any other movie, you either buy a ticket, buy or rent the video, or wait for the TV version with content removed that the networks cannot show.


    Wel, if you've got an example of left wing censorship (like the Imus debacle from last year), then post it. Some of us indeed call it both ways.
    I think several of the people who posted were more against "cleaning" movies than the copyright infringement aspect. If everyones post wer just about copyright infrigement then I'm totally off base, but I don't think I am.

    Why do people who want to see everything be unedited hate on those who don't and then hide behind "copyright infringement"

    Was this place paying for the movie, and then editing it? Or were they jsut taking the movie, editing it, and redistributing it? Because if they paid for it in the first place, and then editing it, calling that "stealign" is pretty harsh.

    Who said anything about it being a "right"? I just said all people should be able to view movies and what not. My main point is some people aren't hating on this place because it "stole" as you say, but because it practiced what you think of as censorship. And some people jsut can't stand the idea of anything being censored.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by Rse White
    I also don't know how creatively involved they actually are in the edited-for-tv versions, like, does Tarantino himself suggest they overdub "cocksucking motherfucker" with "cotton-headed ninnymuggins"? Or is that someone else's job?
    Depends on whether the director was also a producer, and how much control he retained over the project. Todd Solondz (my favorite director) is a control freak, and the powers that be told him he had to cut a particular scene out of Storytelling for HBO - yeah, even HBO didn't want to show it. He refused and convinced them they could just put a large color block on the screen and let the audio keep playing, so they agreed to that, and for the color block he chose "Soviet Red." The result is that for no apparent reason in the middle of the movie, the screen turns brilliant red and you hear the dirty talk and the sex. It makes it even more bizarre and creepy than if they had just shown the sex, which of course is what Solondz intended. That guy...

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214
    Why do people who want to see everything be unedited hate on those who don't and then hide behind "copyright infringement"
    It's not hiding. I'm a filmmaker myself, and I would be outraged if someone was turning a profit off butchering my work. Do you know what goes into a movie? Every movie you see represents years of blood, sweat, and tears from the director, a large amount of money from the producers, and months of hard work and long hours from the cast and crew. We work 15+ hour days every day for months in this business. By the end of a project everyone involved feels like they've been wrung out and hung up to dry, but we do it for our craft and the lucky ones do it to earn a good living. When some shithead pervert profits off the destruction of our labors, do you not see how we would be angry and upset?

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I think several of the people who posted were more against "cleaning" movies than the copyright infringement aspect. If everyones post wer just about copyright infrigement then I'm totally off base, but I don't think I am.
    You are at least somewhat offbase

    Why do people who want to see everything be unedited hate on those who don't and then hide behind "copyright infringement"
    Because the people who want things to be unedited in this context are concerned with the purity or integrity of the artistic vision and the copyright act, in part, protects that? These are not unrelated issues. It's not like artistic integrity is off in one corner and legal protection of that integrity is off in another, not looking.

    Was this place paying for the movie, and then editing it? Or were they jsut taking the movie, editing it, and redistributing it? Because if they paid for it in the first place, and then editing it, calling that "stealign" is pretty harsh.
    But calling it copyright infringement is not in the slightest bit harsh; and if they were sued and lost for copyright infringement, then they obviously didn't have the legal permissions to edit and redistribute. You are not allowed to simply buy a distributable copy and then do what you will to it - and there are good reasons for that, including the protection of artist's moral rights.

    Who said anything about it being a "right"? I just said all people should be able to view movies and what not.
    Yes. But since they don't have an inherent right to view any given movie in such a way as it conforms to their values, there is no inherent right to edit movies to reflect those values. And some people feel strongly about creation integrity.

    My main point is some people aren't hating on this place because it "stole" as you say, but because it practiced what you think of as censorship. And some people jsut can't stand the idea of anything being censored.
    I don't think censorship is the concern; the concern is... again, artistic integrity. So. Yes, I would actually amend my "somewhat" above, and suggest that you are, in fact, way offbase.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    Why do people who want to see everything be unedited hate on those who don't and then hide behind "copyright infringement"

    Was this place paying for the movie, and then editing it? Or were they jsut taking the movie, editing it, and redistributing it? Because if they paid for it in the first place, and then editing it, calling that "stealign" is pretty harsh.

    Who said anything about it being a "right"? I just said all people should be able to view movies and what not. My main point is some people aren't hating on this place because it "stole" as you say, but because it practiced what you think of as censorship. And some people jsut can't stand the idea of anything being censored.
    These have to be some of the most naive statements I've ever seen.

    Hiding behind copyright infringement? Its not hiding, its pointing out that breaking the law is breaking the law and damn right it should piss us off if people are infringing on copyrights to make money.

    Yes they are stealing. When you purchase a movie you are not buying the movie itself. You are merely buying the "right" or "license" to view the movie at your leisure on a medium that is provided. You are allowed to make backup copies for yourself and only for yourself in case your original is damaged, misplaced etc. This does not give you the right or license to edit the movie at will and redistribute it. Back to point one, its a crime.

    I myself am not "hating" on anyone. I'm merely calling it as I see it. A person breaking the law for personal gain. Also people who look past someone breaking the law since it lets them show their children a movie that they are not ready to see yet in its original form. Both cases of individuals I would refer to as 'fucking idiots'.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    What I was always amazed at was that people would steal (because that's what copyright infringement is) in order to see an edited movie so their moral sensitivities would not be bothered. I censor movies all the time by reading reviews and not going to movies that I find offensive.

    In the case of Titanic, removing the nude scenes and the non-explicit sex scenes makes the movie nonsensical. If Rose had NOT stripped, posed, and screwed Jack, why would Cal have been so furious that he framed Jack for theft, tried to kill him, and left both Rose and Jack to die?

    OTOH, I never understood what the bare boobs on Michael Corleone's bride added to the Godfather. It is just as good with or without them.

    I was in a mailing store sending a package, and they had a section where they rented those Clean Flix. I noticed that one of the titles was Chicago, and asked the clerk what was left after they edited it. He said, "I dunno, the credits maybe?" What WOULD Chicago, be if they took out everything that a five year old child should not see?

    But since the studios already make their own cleaned up versions of movies for TV and for airline viewing, I wonder why they don't release them to the market of people who want such things. Obviously there is a demand for it, probably not by any of us, but there is money to be made there.

    The irony of the situation here, though, is that this guy who was editing out bare boobs and damns was getting blow jobs from teenage girls. What's worse, bare boobs and damns or some adult paying young girls to suck him off? Not that she sounds all that innocent, either, but come on, she's only fourteen. Asshole.

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I think several of the people who posted were more against "cleaning" movies than the copyright infringement aspect. If everyones post wer just about copyright infrigement then I'm totally off base, but I don't think I am.

    Why do people who want to see everything be unedited hate on those who don't and then hide behind "copyright infringement"
    Name me a single person in this thread who has stated that everything be unedited. I even stated myself that if there is enough market for edited versions of these films, Hollywood would be financially wise to distribute them. If Clean Flix had legal permission from the copyright holders of the films they edited, there would be no issue. Were not hiding behind "copyright infringement". Copyright infringement is 100% of the matter.

    Was this place paying for the movie, and then editing it? Or were they jsut taking the movie, editing it, and redistributing it? Because if they paid for it in the first place, and then editing it, calling that "stealign" is pretty harsh.
    Calling it stealing is pretty accurate. Pick up a DVD sometime, look at the back, and read that fine print at the bottom. If it weren't stealing, they wouldn't be getting the FBI involved.

    Who said anything about it being a "right"? I just said all people should be able to view movies and what not. My main point is some people aren't hating on this place because it "stole" as you say, but because it practiced what you think of as censorship.
    You seriously need to reread this thread dude, the whole thing, you know the uncensored version.

    And some people jsut can't stand the idea of anything being censored.
    The reality is quite the contrary. I have yet to see anyone in this thread, or anyone in general suggest that uncensored media be force fed upon the entire populace. Movies are made by private enterprises. Your tax dollars are not used for their production. If there is objectionable content in it, you and I have the right not to watch it, or not show it to our kids. We even have the right to edit that movie for our personal use, or even make our own movies. We do not have a right to take the works of others and redistribute them in a manner the copyright holders did not grant permission for.

    You can't say the same thing about people who want censorship like the Parents Televison Council, who seem to think that the mere availability of uncensored media, even when there is a censored version available, are restrictions/guidelines in place to keep it from view of minors, is intolerable, and organize to get the authorities to do their bidding.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    That's not fair to say. You think sex and nudity are ok. Some religions feel different, and you average person regardless of religion, is going to say those are private things.

    You think its normal, but others don't. You don't want them to impose there view on you, but who says your view is right?

    And I seriously don't think that most highschool seniors think sex is evil or wrong. But they still aren't mature enough to handle a private thing in public.
    I think you misunderstood what CO was trying to say. If you're raised in a religion that teaches you that sex and masturbation are bad, you're going to have some issues with that. Sex is a natural human instinct. You can't just erase it. It doesn't work like that. There needs to be a healthy outlet.


    So, the girls got caught because the mom found a $20 bill in her room... and THAT made the girl 'fess up to everything?? Oooookay.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    ^^ Maybe she wanted to get caught.

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post

    It's not hiding. I'm a filmmaker myself, and I would be outraged if someone was turning a profit off butchering my work. Do you know what goes into a movie? Every movie you see represents years of blood, sweat, and tears from the director, a large amount of money from the producers, and months of hard work and long hours from the cast and crew. We work 15+ hour days every day for months in this business. By the end of a project everyone involved feels like they've been wrung out and hung up to dry, but we do it for our craft and the lucky ones do it to earn a good living. When some shithead pervert profits off the destruction of our labors, do you not see how we would be angry and upset?
    No, I don't see how you would be upset and angry. Does removing "fuck" from the dialogue of the movie somehow destory its value? If it does then I would say its not much a movie. Yet thats my opinion and the I've only ever been involved in the business side of movie production.

    My statements were direct responses to others posts, not particuarly the whole thread.

    And I still maintain that people get upset about censorship like this, and instead of saying they don't like that, they say they're upset about "copyright infringement". If the guy had gotten permission to change the films beforehand, I think most of you would still be pissed about it, you just wouldn't have as much to stand on.

    Keep in my I'm also playing devil's advocate a little.

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    If the guy had gotten permission beforehand, there would be no issue of copyright infringement. Everything would be copasetic on that issue.

    But he'd still be an asshole and a hypocrite for being "Oh, so moral!" as to sanitize the films so people with Positive Family Values could watch them while he was letting teenage girls suck him off in the back room. And the general public thinks that us strip club customers are perverts.

    BTW, you can buy a special DVD player which is programmed to bleep and blur the "objectionable" parts of most current titles. This is legal. Why? Because the original movie is unaltered. The copyright owner is paid for his/her work. You are just changing the way your machine plays it back.

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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    On the topic of the original post, yeah, dumbass pedophile running a company that "protects the children" by editing out "offensive" scenes from movies = ironic. I would be first in line to point and laugh at him.

    However... on the topic of copyright and the ethics or morality of re-mixing or modifying other artist's work... I'm a bit more uncomfortable taking the stand that what Clean Flix actually did. And it has nothing to do with "protecting the children."

    I would argue that the whole concept of copyright and "moral rights" or the concept of "protecting the artist's rights" are based on what was originally a technical limitation: copying things used to be hard. It was difficult for anyone but Michaelangelo to sculpt "David", it took lots of hard-earned skill and time to copy a Bible by hand... and so on, down the ages. So, since the artist's work was fairly unique, it made sense to protect their right to make money off their art by enshrining that technical limitation in law.

    That no longer applies, and it will apply less and less as time goes on. When I think of all the great re-mixed songs I've listened to, or the fan art I've read, or re-tellings of other stories... I think that the world in general is made better, not worse, by taking art and making more art from it, cutting and pasting or re-mixing or even eliminating parts of the story.

    I mean, come on. Who won't argue that "The Phantom Edit" wasn't made thousands of times better than the original by the reduction of Jar Jar Binks scenes?

    Now, I know that not all artists would agree with this position. I know plenty of musicians who don't want their work mashed up, for example. And directors will argue that their films are perfect once they're released - or if not perfect, at least representative of their unique vision. And, of course, there's the whole economic issue of turning that work into dollars.

    So I'm not going to take an absolute position of telling all artists everywhere that they have to release their art into the public domain upon immediate release. I'll just suggest that that's going to happen anyway, and it's only going to get easier in the future (barring a giant asteroid wiping us out, or someone goin' nuclear and blasting us back to the paleolithic era).

    So, yes, Daniel Thompson is a bad man, and I think, hypocritcal. But I don't think what the company was doing was necessarily wrong in my opinion. It may have been illegal, but not wrong, if you catch my drift. And it may take a while for the law to catch up to the realities of technological society.

    That's just my opinion. Yours may differ, of course, but I'd like to hear what y'all have to say.
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahMike View Post
    If the guy had gotten permission beforehand, there would be no issue of copyright infringement. Everything would be copasetic on that issue.

    But he'd still be an asshole and a hypocrite for being "Oh, so moral!" as to sanitize the films so people with Positive Family Values could watch them while he was letting teenage girls suck him off in the back room. And the general public thinks that us strip club customers are perverts.

    BTW, you can buy a special DVD player which is programmed to bleep and blur the "objectionable" parts of most current titles. This is legal. Why? Because the original movie is unaltered. The copyright owner is paid for his/her work. You are just changing the way your machine plays it back.
    I actually was curious if he was paying for the right to distribute the movies at all.

    Please don't get me wrong, I TOTALLY AGREE that the guy is a huge asshole and hypocrite.

  24. #49
    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahMike View Post
    ^^ Maybe she wanted to get caught.
    That's the only thing that would make sense, yes.
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

  25. #50
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Pious hypocrite arrested

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    No, I don't see how you would be upset and angry. Does removing "fuck" from the dialogue of the movie somehow destory its value?
    To a certain extent, yes. If all the characters in Goodfellas were saying "oh fiddle-dee-dee" instead of fuck, and giving hugs instead of shooting each other, I would definitely say that the director's artistic integrity has been compromised. If you took everything objectionable out of Happiness, you would essentially be gagging the director. A movie (like any other artwork) comes about because someone has something to say, a vision he wants to share. For someone else to gut that vision and change his message is to put false words in his mouth, and it violates all the work and personal sacrifice that everyone involved put into the picture. I find that reprehensible.

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