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Thread: Could Be '68 All Over Again

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Here's a nightmare scenario for the Dems. Hillary and Obama go into the Convention in a dead heat with neither having the requisite number of delegates to win the nomination on the first ballot. What to do ? Bargain with Edwards and get pushed further to the left when she has to slip over to the center for the General Election ? Maybe.

    Here's what she is GUARANTEED to do. She will get her delegates to vote for seating the Michigan and Florida delegations. Obama didn't campaign in either state per an agreement ALL the candidates were party to in order to enforce the DNC penalty against those states for moving up their primaries. That might give her enough delegates to push her over the top.

    It will be a Pyrric victory. A lot of Obama's supporters will feel robbed or cheated and frankly they'll be within their rights to think just that. As with Gene McCarthy's supporters in 1968 when the nomination was pulled out from under him and given to Humphery; a lot of Obama supporters may just stay home in November rather than vote for Hillary. A lot of Republicans will " come home" and vote for McCain but much more importantly, many Independents will either go for McCain or stay home.

    Even Black voters who have historically been so loyal and so forgiving may not forgive that sort of chicanery. And if the Republicans are smart, they will run ads continually reminding them of Hillary's double-dealing.

    The Democrats themselves; taken as a whole,may not like it making it almost impossible for them to unite and generate enthusiasm.

    Today is not going to decide anything.Whatever happens, neither Obama nor Hillary will have enough delegates. The campaign will go on for at least another month into Ohio ( probable for Obama ) and Texas ( possible for Hillary ).
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 02-06-2008 at 08:01 AM.

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    Alaska
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    I've had the same thought. Throw in a few assasination attempts, yea....

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    I'm not sure she can get the delegates to defy the DNC. Especially if they take a stand and point out she broke promises.
    Last edited by jester214; 02-05-2008 at 03:41 PM.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    I think you are right on track with this one Eric.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I'm not sure she can get the delegates to defy the DNC. Especially if they take a stand and point out she broke promises.
    With the Clintons, ANYTHING is possible.

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    Veteran Member Lapaholic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Maybe this is where these endorsements mite actually have value. I would imagine having Kennedy and Kerry working delegates over may help Obama.. Not to mention, I really think Dean is an Obama supporter and the hierarchy of the Dems will want Obama. I really think Obama wins a brokered convention. I really thought the Giants would win the Superbowl - no really I did!!!! And I am a Baltimore Colts fan so .... yea I have prediction skills - oh yea!

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    I told you so. I told you so. Howard Dean is already talking about "do-overs" in Michigan and Florida i.e. re-running their Primaries so their delegations can be seated.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    ^^^ Yep I bet they do it too... We should should just go to a national primary and be done with it on one friggin day .... Im kinda of burned out !!!

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapaholic View Post
    ^^^ Yep I bet they do it too... We should should just go to a national primary and be done with it on one friggin day .... Im kinda of burned out !!!
    National primarieS. You'd need at least two. The first to winnow out the also - rans and then one between the 2 top vote-getters.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Item- Obama leaps ahead of Hillary by 12 points in National Poll.

    Item- John Lewis and other super-delegates previously pledged to Hillary have switched to Obama.

    Item- Obama is polling better among women; WHITE women; poor whites and the Latin community.

    Item- Hillary has stepped up her personal attacks on Obama.

    Item- Sharpton and others have come out against any Clinton attempt to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations. The Clinton camp has gotten louder and louder in pushing for seating those delegations. A lawsuit would be futile as the Supreme Court has ruled that Political Parties are free to do as they please and be as anti-democratic as they like but coupled with high-profile protests would irreparably damage Dem unity.

    Item- Howard Dean (publicly) and other major Dem honchos ( privately) are desperately trying to avoid a "brokered" convention.

    Item- Obama and Hillary supporters are becoming more and more polarized and estranged from each other with increasing percentages of each saying they would not vote for the other candidate should he or she get the nomination. Originally this was just noted among Obama supporters but in the latest polls Hillary supporters are starting to express similar sentiments.

    Item- Ann Coulter has endorsed Hillary but hedged on endorsing Obama. Rush Limbaugh has endorsed Obama. Okay, I know Rush was joking.

    None of this is being lost on many Democrat poobahs. Hillary has been exposed as caring only about herself and not the party. Many Red-state Dems do not want to have to run with Hillary heading the ticket and that was BEFORE Obama did so well in many Red-state primaries and caucuses. Look for further defections from Hillary to Obama.

    There is also a serious undercurrent of fear among some of Obama's high profile supporters. Hillary is famous for being mean and vindictive. If she does win, she will have a long list of Dems to get even with and they know it.

  11. #11
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    We're not going to have riots in Denver, are we?




    (This is a joking reference to '68, you youngsters.)

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    We're not going to have riots in Denver, are we?




    (This is a joking reference to '68, you youngsters.)
    Unless there is a clear definitive winner, it won't be pretty.

  13. #13
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    OK, for you youngsters, '68 was a special year in bad ways. RFK and MLK assassinated. Tet offensive and big body counts coming out of Vietnam. Student riots. The year had a wistful cap of the Apollo mission going around the moon.

    The "student" protests at the Democratic convention in Chicago in '68 ultimately led to huge riots during the convention and a malaise of the Democratic party that presidential year. (Whether you wish to believe that the SDS or Chicago police were the impetus for rioting, the fact remains that the country was horribly polarized at the time, and the situation was a tinderbox awaiting a spark.) The SDS and then Weathermen bragged at that time how they went and "tore up pig city." Now, that wasn't pretty.

    So I'm looking forward to a nice, manipulative, dirty fighting, Machiavellian joust that pisses off half the party, no matter who wins, and continues the fine Democratic tradition of self-immolation when it comes to picking presidential candidates.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    OK, for you youngsters, '68 was a special year in bad ways. RFK and MLK assassinated. Tet offensive and big body counts coming out of Vietnam. Student riots. The year had a wistful cap of the Apollo mission going around the moon.

    The "student" protests at the Democratic convention in Chicago in '68 ultimately led to huge riots during the convention and a malaise of the Democratic party that presidential year. (Whether you wish to believe that the SDS or Chicago police were the impetus for rioting, the fact remains that the country was horribly polarized at the time, and the situation was a tinderbox awaiting a spark.) The SDS and then Weathermen bragged at that time how they went and "tore up pig city." Now, that wasn't pretty.

    So I'm looking forward to a nice, manipulative, dirty fighting, Machiavellian joust that pisses off half the party, no matter who wins, and continues the fine Democratic tradition of self-immolation when it comes to picking presidential candidates.
    The best and easiest way to avoid that and other unpleasant and counterproductive scenarios is for the Dems to unite behind Obama which it appears they might be starting to do.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    ^^^ the 'acid test' will come in Texas ... at which point Hilary will find out whether or not her 'selling out' her hispanic supporters by firing her latina campaign manager will haunt her bad enough to lose the Texas primary. The 'tin foil hat' crowd is of the opinion that Hilary's strategic mistake may indeed knock her out of neck-and-neck contention and in fact favor Obama as the nominee. This will likely be clear as a bell by early march, after the Texas and other big primaries take place.

    Indeed this could be a 68 replay in the sense of Humphrey versus McGovern ... but on the REPUBLICAN side. This to be more accurate, it's more like a 64 replay of Goldwater versus Rockefeller (with with McCain = Rockefeller clearly in the lead, and Goldwater = Huckabee trailing badly. By early march there should also be a tremendous amount of pressure for Huckabee to give it up !

    Of course the biggest question mark will arise after Obama appears to have a serious chance of winning the Democratic nomination. That question mark of course is what the hell does Obama really stand for. The 'tin foil hat' crowd is equating Obama to 'Chauncey Gardner' (i.e. Peter Sellers film role - see the trailer at )

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Hillary never had Texas to begin with. At least none of the Texans I ever spoke with were excited about her. All the talk was about Obama.

    Seating the Michigan and Florida delegations simply exposes the powers that be as corrupt - that rules mean nothing. First they disenfranchise their own political members by denying their vote. Then they bend the rules to meet their own needs. Disgusting.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    Hillary never had Texas to begin with. At least none of the Texans I ever spoke with were excited about her. All the talk was about Obama.

    Seating the Michigan and Florida delegations simply exposes the powers that be as corrupt - that rules mean nothing. First they disenfranchise their own political members by denying their vote. Then they bend the rules to meet their own needs. Disgusting.
    And WHY should the Clintons change their M.O. now ? I expect Hillary to battle to the bitter end and if she loses she will go into a funk and NOT campaign for Obama. Don't be surprised if she and Bill work behind the scenes to help McCain and sabotage Obama.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    ^^^ you can count on that behind the scenes Clinton action if Obama gets the Democratic nomination.

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    That question mark of course is what the hell does Obama really stand for.
    There seem to be a host of stances at

    I suspect that Mr. Clinton might support a McCain Presidency because they're both moderates. Clinton falls on the liberal side of moderate, and McCain the conservative side, but they're both there. Clinton had the same accusations of "ignoring the base" that McCain now does. (And let's remember that the "base" of the overall voters is "moderate.")

    With Ms. Clinton, I could easily see her not supporting Obama out of spite. Sorry to her fans. That's how I see her personality.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    ^^ And so much for an Obama- Hillary ticket. Not unless Obama is either suicidal or thinks we'd be best governed by a Triumvirate. I'm sure he agrees that : " 3's a crowd ".

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    If Clinton was smart (I'm not saying she is), she would have a wait and see attitude until 03/04, then if the tide hasn't turned strongly in her favor she should suspend her campaign, get behind Obama 100% and run around the nation saying how she was instrumental in getting the first Af. Am elected to the presidency.

    She'd save face and her party. It would be perfect. I'm afraid that she is to egotistical to let nature take it's course. If that happens, it would hamper any future presidency bids for women.


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    OMFG I hate the phrase "African American" as it's used today. You are NOT African American unless you were born in Africa and emigrated to the US!!! If you were born in the US, no matter your descent, you are just AMERICAN. Sheesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    OMFG I hate the phrase "African American" as it's used today. You are NOT African American unless you were born in Africa and emigrated to the US!!! If you were born in the US, no matter your descent, you are just AMERICAN. Sheesh.
    To be called simply "American" would mean to lose a specialness...

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    Default Re: Could Be '68 All Over Again

    The latest word is that REGARDLESS of what happens in the primaries the Clintons will fight for the nomination all the way to, and at the Convention. Hillary is apparently willing to do ANYTHING to get the nomination and will lobby and twist the arm of every Super-Delegate.

    As things stand now, it is very possible for Obama to have more pledged delegates; have more votes cast for him and to have won far more states and for Hillary to get the nomination through the Super-Delegates.

    Would someone explain to me HOW Hillary seriously expects to put the Dem. Party back together after tearing it apart ?

    Howard Dean is proving himself to be a powerless, ineffective head of the DNC. Al Gore is supposedly waiting in the wings to mediate between Hillary and Obama.The only problem is he lacks any serious cred. with the Clintons.

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    Would someone explain to me HOW Hillary seriously expects to put the Dem. Party back together after tearing it apart ?
    you're kidding, right ? Throw some patronage at the democratic politicians. Throw a new entitlement program at the democratic 'poor'. Throw some 'affirmative action' at the democratic minorities. Throw new (unpublicized) tax loopholes at the democratic 'rich'. Pull the US military out of the middle east to please virtually all democrats. Hold a few presidential pardons in reserve to convince the 'hard cases'. Everybody in the democratic party will love her again and forget all about this campaign.

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