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Thread: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    ... it's time to file for grants to research something else ...

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    LMFAO. no wonder you are the mod everyone was refering to in the "who is on your ignore lis" topic. note the last part of the quote below to find out one of the many reasons why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    This may or may not be a response to any SW posters who just seem to go on and on about one particular topic, starting thread after thread saying the same thing over and over again until more and more people just tune them out.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    well, it's a free country (for the moment at least). SW visitors are free to ignore me in the same way that they are free to ignore contradictory evidence to the 'global warming' theory. As to 'saying the same thing over and over again', please note that my posted evidence is always new, as opposed to the consensus arguments which keep saying the same things over and over again.

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    and many, many do ignore you. and now I will too.

    have fun posting the same shit (and it is 100% shit, btw) over and over. rinse and repeat.

  5. #5
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Well, I'm confused. A few years ago, global warming was being hotly denied here. A few months ago, no one was denying it. Now are we back to it being a deniable theory?

    Back in the 1930s and 1940s, doctors and surgeons knew how bad smoking for us was without the benefit of "studies." Got a patient with emphysema? Smoker. Got a patient with lung cancer? Smoker. You crack open a chest during surgery and see the dark, decaying lung tissue. Oh. Smoker. The tobacco companies would come up with all kinds of "scientific" crap to say what was clearly not the case in order to extend their influence as long as they could.

    So it goes with global warming. Ice shelves drop off Antarctica. The polar icecap thins and retreats. Glaciers disappear. Deserts expand. Communities that once stayed cool in summer now universally have air conditioning. These are obvious things. Oh, but wait. There are studies that throw tea leaves into the jetstream, or take isolated data points out of context, or put up paper walls in the face of hard facts. Black is white, white is black, tobacco is good for you, and there is no global warming.

    Not even talking about how it's caused or whether it can be contained. The more we dick around with arguing about something that is clearly the case only slows down our ability to deal with the consequences. But that's how we work it. Interest groups swing bigger hammers than tangible facts.

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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    Well, I'm confused. A few years ago, global warming was being hotly denied here. A few months ago, no one was denying it. Now are we back to it being a deniable theory?

    Back in the 1930s and 1940s, doctors and surgeons knew how bad smoking for us was without the benefit of "studies." Got a patient with emphysema? Smoker. Got a patient with lung cancer? Smoker. You crack open a chest during surgery and see the dark, decaying lung tissue. Oh. Smoker. The tobacco companies would come up with all kinds of "scientific" crap to say what was clearly not the case in order to extend their influence as long as they could.

    So it goes with global warming. Ice shelves drop off Antarctica. The polar icecap thins and retreats. Glaciers disappear. Deserts expand. Communities that once stayed cool in summer now universally have air conditioning. These are obvious things. Oh, but wait. There are studies that throw tea leaves into the jetstream, or take isolated data points out of context, or put up paper walls in the face of hard facts. Black is white, white is black, tobacco is good for you, and there is no global warming.

    Not even talking about how it's caused or whether it can be contained. The more we dick around with arguing about something that is clearly the case only slows down our ability to deal with the consequences. But that's how we work it. Interest groups swing bigger hammers than tangible facts.
    We had an ice age at one point? And before that a hot period? There is obvious evidence for routine changes in the planetary climate. Dinosaurs also once roamed the earth, nature does some crazy shit. Now I'm NOT saying that global-warming is or isn't happening, I'm just saying I think there is evidence on VOTH sides.

    For me, the jury's not out.

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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tara_SW View Post
    and many, many do ignore you. and now I will too.

    have fun posting the same shit (and it is 100% shit, btw) over and over. rinse and repeat.
    Read my above post, but besides that, why would hundreds of renoun scientists disagree with you? Although I guess seeing Al Gore's movie and reading CNN has made you more qualified than them...

  8. #8
    stellaforstars
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tara_SW View Post
    and many, many do ignore you. and now I will too.

    have fun posting the same shit (and it is 100% shit, btw) over and over. rinse and repeat.
    There's really no need to make an announcement every time you put someone on ignore.

  9. #9
    Tauries
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by stellaforstars View Post
    There's really no need to make an announcement every time you put someone on ignore.

    Thank you Stellaforstars!!! I have never put anyone on ignore in all of my incarnations on this board...till now....bye Tara!

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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    ^^^ lol, now you dit it. Although I personally agree with you

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by stellaforstars View Post
    There's really no need to make an announcement every time you put someone on ignore.
    can't actually add her to the ignore list since she is a mod ,wish I could though but point taken anyway. I'll refrain from telling them in the future.

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    Read my above post, but besides that, why would hundreds of renoun scientists disagree with you? Although I guess seeing Al Gore's movie and reading CNN has made you more qualified than them...
    hardly becuase unlike Melonie I don'thappen to think I know more about everything than the all world's experts combined. Not to mention I haven't even seen that movie and I mostly watch msnbc and bbc. I just happen to follow science news pretty close that's all. Also it's not hundreds either and even if it was, 10 plus times as many scientists do agree with me that global warming is a major enviromental threat and mostly caused by Co2 and NOT the sun.

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    Senior Member Tara_SW's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauries View Post
    Thank you Stellaforstars!!! I have never put anyone on ignore in all of my incarnations on this board...till now....bye Tara!
    sorry to hear that. especially since I said I see Stella's point. I just hadn't thought of it that way prior to now. but if you feel you must, so be it

  14. #14
    BrunetteGoddess
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    LOL, STFU TigerLily.....I'm pretty sure the person who 'posts the same thing over and over again' is NOT Melonie. Why won't you just lay off Melonie? You make it obvious who you are each time your reincarnate yourself.

    Oh, wait, she can't hear me because I must have made her cry and rush for the ignore button. Carry on.

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    Featured Member blondi553's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    ^ha that was funny, sorry but that was a little uncalled for...the whole melanie bashingness at the very beginning was really childish..."ohhh i dont like you and no one else does either nah nah nah nah nah nah" speak for yourself, and stop being childish.

  16. #16
    BrunetteGoddess
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    ^Were you talking about me? If not...

    Be careful....she'll put you on ignore too


    I'm sorry your thread got derailed Melonie. Carry on, please.

  17. #17
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    We had an ice age at one point? And before that a hot period? There is obvious evidence for routine changes in the planetary climate.
    Well, of course. And I'm sure that if there were wooly mammoths who had the intelligence and sophistication to be invested in tundra futures, they could have produced studies saying that the Ice Age was not happening.

    I'm saying that ignoring the signs doesn't change reality.

    I'm just saying I think there is evidence on VOTH sides.
    Really. Stand at a glacier terminus, anywhere in the world, and compare it to where the terminus was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. What's the evidence that it's not retreating? Camp out on the Larsen ice shelf, or at least the remaining part. What's the evidence that it hasn't actually broken apart?

    I'm not blaming humans. I don't give a crap about Al Gore's movie. I'm suggesting that we look at the world the way it actually exists. But we're not a species that base our decisions on basic facts. We base our decisions on what we want to believe and the artifices that we can build to support that.

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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    Well, of course. And I'm sure that if there were wooly mammoths who had the intelligence and sophistication to be invested in tundra futures, they could have produced studies saying that the Ice Age was not happening.

    I'm saying that ignoring the signs doesn't change reality.

    Really. Stand at a glacier terminus, anywhere in the world, and compare it to where the terminus was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. What's the evidence that it's not retreating? Camp out on the Larsen ice shelf, or at least the remaining part. What's the evidence that it hasn't actually broken apart?

    I'm not blaming humans. I don't give a crap about Al Gore's movie. I'm suggesting that we look at the world the way it actually exists. But we're not a species that base our decisions on basic facts. We base our decisions on what we want to believe and the artifices that we can build to support that.
    And I'm saying how do you know they're signs at all? How do you know this isn't just a reverse ice age? I don't. I beleive some scientists have put forth a few theories on causes other than global warming. Again I don't know, I'm not a scientist, but I'm not going to ignore the points of one side just because the other is more popular.

  19. #19
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    How would I know that melting ice and advancing deserts means a warming trend?

    Um, OK. Nice talking with you.

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    God/dess
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I'm not a scientist, but I'm not going to ignore the points of one side just because the other is more popular.
    Isn't that kind of what you are doing though?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    ^^^ nobody is arguing that there isn't a warming trend ... or more precisely that there hasn't been a recent warming trend (which the latest data shows as having ended in 2000 or so on a global basis - ).

    What IS being argued is what role human based CO2 emissions have contributed to that warming trend - and by inference how effective or ineffective even a properly effective Kyotolike global effort to reduce CO2 emissions might or might not be despite the very high cost of compliance for residents of 'developed' countries.

    I'm still perplexed by the apparent fact that Mars and other planets are also undergoing a similar warming trend ... in the total absence of human based CO2 emissions.


    the human based CO2 emissions advocates have not addressed this data at all, other than to attempt a call of bullS#!t with no contradictory data and/or to attempt personal attacks to discredit the 'messenger' !!!


    PS forgive the reposting of links that I have referred to in older SW posts ... they were reposted to save SW readers from having to search their a$$es off, or to take my statements as being unsupported.


    going back to my original post, the tongue in cheek point was that some scientists will aggressively seek grant money to conduct research, with at least some possibility that the results of targeted grant research tends to support the hoped-for conclusion the grant payers are expecting to hear ! Arguably this was true of tobacco research in the 1960's, and is equally true of global warming / cooling research in recent years.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-09-2008 at 01:15 PM.

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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    ^^^by the same logic, can you absolutely state that man made CO2 emissions have not contributed to global warming? or that a Kyoto like accord won't have an effect in stemming the slide? Is it really worth the potential cost to stick our heads in the sand and hope that nature simply reverses course?

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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head View Post
    Isn't that kind of what you are doing though?
    Not at all, I've done extensive reading on both sides. I see validity to both arguments. Unlike a lot of people who say they beleive it's all global warming because thats what others beleive.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    can you absolutely state that man made CO2 emissions have not contributed to global warming?
    no I can't. But contributing at a 10-20-30% level and contributing at a 0.01-0.02-0.03% level are two very different situations ... and spending trillions of dollars to achieve 0.01-0.02-0.03% reductions while leaving no money to pursue other more fruitful avenues seems to be poor judgement at best and foolhardiness at worst.

    or that a Kyoto like accord won't have an effect in stemming the slide?
    yes I can ... the new studies are all showing that new CO2 emissions from 'developing' countries like China that are exempt from Kyoto emissions limits are far exceeding the declines in CO2 emissions (actually declines in growth rate only) occurring in 'developed' countries that are bound by CO2 emissions limits, creating a net increase in global CO2 as the direct result of the Kyoto treaty. This was discussed in detail in another thread.

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    Default Re: now that the grant money for 'Global Warming' has been spent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    no I can't. But contributing at a 10-20-30% level and contributing at a 0.01-0.02-0.03% level are two very different situations ... and spending trillions of dollars to achieve 0.01-0.02-0.03% reductions while leaving no money to pursue other more fruitful avenues seems to be poor judgement at best and foolhardiness at worst.
    What more fruitful and fiscally responsible avenues have been proposed again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    yes I can ... the new studies are all showing that new CO2 emissions from 'developing' countries like China that are exempt from Kyoto emissions limits are far exceeding the declines in CO2 emissions (actually declines in growth rate only) occurring in 'developed' countries that are bound by CO2 emissions limits, creating a net increase in global CO2 as the direct result of the Kyoto treaty. This was discussed in detail in another thread.
    Well, technically I said a Kyoto like accord, not the Kyoto accord, which for the record I'm not real crazy about either. Something that places all countries, developing or otherwise, on the same playing field is certainly something that could be accomplished with a little ingenuity.

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