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Thread: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    now I don't feel like the 'odd girl out' ...

    Actually, this is 'scary stuff' given that demographic analysis shows the most likely emigrants to be young 'professionals' in their 20's, 30's and 40's i.e. TAXPAYERS !


    (snip)" Exit U.S .
    By Mike Muehleck

    One and a half million U.S. households are preparing to move out of the U.S. The vast majority of émigrés are in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. And some may not ever return.

    No, we are not talking about the next major deployment of National Guard units to the Middle East. In fact, none of the emigrants are government workers or corporate employees leaving for temporary overseas assignments. These folks are malcontents or adventurers. They consist entirely of private citizens and their families packing up and leaving the good ol' USA solely at their own initiative.

    This news comes from a Zogby International poll of 115,000 Americans conducted over the past two years. Bob Adams, CEO of New Global Initiatives, commissioned the poll when he realized that no reliable database tracks the movement of Americans out of the country. A recent Barron's article, written by Bob Adams, breaks down the Zogby/New Global Initiatives data as follows:

    · 1.6 million (U.S. households) have already made the decision to leave
    · 1.8 million are seriously considering and likely to leave
    · 7.7 million are somewhat serious about leaving and may do so
    · 3.0 million are seriously considering purchase of non-U.S. property
    · 10.0 million are somewhat serious about purchase of non-U.S. property

    Adding it all up, some 10% of all U.S. households are looking to leave the country, while another 11% are considering living outside the U.S. at least part time.

    "That Can't Be Right"

    "Incredulous" is the word that best describes the reaction of people when they hear Adams' conclusions. I brought the subject up the other night while barbequing and drinking beer with some American business people I know here in Bangkok. Even this well-traveled group greeted the poll results with skepticism. They asked, "How did he get thes data? Who did they interview?"

    Maybe I was missing something, I thought to myself. So I decided to give Bob Adams a call. I reached him one evening at his home in Panama. "It's happening," Adams insisted, when asked about this new wave of emigration.

    "And we really can't say exactly why."

    While Adams' survey includes destinations all over the world, the survey's findings corroborate Adams' first-hand observations in Panama. Adams says the recent American emigrants to Panama are different from previous ones. Ten years ago, the typical American ex-pat in Panama was likely to be a retiree who had previously been in Panama. Perhaps they had been on a military assignment or with the Canal Zone administration. These folks tended to live in "American only" enclaves for social and security reasons and had fairly little interaction with the local population. These older ex-pats frequently used the words "tropical paradise" to describe why they moved to Panama.

    But today's emigrants tend to be a lot younger, professionally employed, and more likely to meld into the international community than earlier transplants. These folks generally say they moved to Panama for adventure, a lower cost of living, or to escape the growing intrusiveness of the American political and legal systems."(snip)

    (snip)" Why Do People Emigrate?

    Why do people leave home for strange foreign lands? While a handful might claim to leave for political or religious reasons, most seek greater economic opportunity. All of my grandparents emigrated from Germany or Lithuania in the early 1900s. My wife's Chinese grandparents, for example, emigrated from China to Siam in the same generation. None moved to new lands because of a burning desire to be "free." They all moved because they wanted to make more money and thus enjoy a better life.

    If you Google the word "emigration," and you'll mostly get sites that detail the emigration from Europe to the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th century. Google "American emigration" and you get a link to Adams' New Global Initiatives Web site and not much else. Most economic oriented sites only discuss the effects of legal and illegal immigration into the U.S. It's hard to find any thoughts about the economic, political, and demographic effects of younger Americans leaving for greener pastures overseas.

    If people emigrate to find economic opportunity, might Adams' survey portend bad news for the U.S.? Current U.S. GDP is $44,000 per person versus Panama's $8,000. It seems unlikely that people are leaving for immediate financial gains. Still, Panama is a young country demographically, with a median age of 26. Panama's GDP grew at an 8% clip last year. It doesn't have the U.S. baby boomers' $55 trillion unfunded pension liability. Neither is it involved in difficult, expensive Middle East nation-building. So we should not be surprised if a growing number of 20-to -40-year-old Americans are willing and eager to abandon the wealth that "has been" to pursue the wealth that "might be." "(snip)

    from
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-17-2008 at 06:43 PM.

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    God/dess leilanicandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Well Mel, I dont blame those folks.
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    Banned i.breathe.in's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    people get tired of being let down and feel powerless. if i had the means and know how id probobly do it too.

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    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    ^ So would I. I'd love to leave.

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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Three things?

    Where exactly are these people gonna go?

    Of the numbers listed, I'll bet only about 2 mill actually go through with it.

    And, I bet a lot of them will come back

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    Of the numbers listed, I'll bet only about 2 mill actually go through with it.
    And I bet once many of them get wherever they're going, they're going to find out upon settling in that they still have to deal with much of the same crap they supposedly left the US to avoid, or deal with some other sort of crap that made their old life look like a lesser evil. Once you get to the other side, the grass sometimes isn't so green anymore.

    And, I bet a lot of them will come back
    Ka-ching. Even people who transplant themselves from one part of the US to another find this out. I can't count how many friends, relatives, co-workers, etc. who left this area only to be back within a couple of years because they couldn't afford to live wherever they went or couldn't fit in with the culture there. You've truly got to hate home in order to leave it and stay gone.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    I left. I'm still gone. Haha.


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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    I left. I'm still gone. Haha.
    I would say your the exception to the rule.

    I don't see where these people are going to go that things will be so much better?? Of the places that I would consider "better", I doubt they would take me.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    And I bet once many of them get wherever they're going, they're going to find out upon settling in that they still have to deal with much of the same crap they supposedly left the US to avoid, or deal with some other sort of crap that made their old life look like a lesser evil. Once you get to the other side, the grass sometimes isn't so green anymore.
    I suppose that this is actually a two sided argument. One side is, as you point out, exactly how much 'green er the grass will be' in a new location. But the other side is how 'brown the grass will wilt' if they stay in America.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    You could put me in those stats. Looking at Canada and Germany, currently.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    It depends on what you're looking for and what is ultimately most important to you. Denmark supposedly has the "happiest" , most content people in the world. You'll have to put up with a cold; damp climate and relatively cramped conditions.
    In exchange you get a nanny liberal state that gives you free education and free health care among a slew of government benefits. One little problem- Unless you're Danish; they don't want you.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    ^^It appears that you are against everything! What do you stand for?


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    I am thinking of moving back to Japan or moving to Australia after i graduate college. I lived in Japan for almost five year, since I have been back in California, I feel that I belong back overseas. I do not feel like the U.S is my home anymore.
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    ^^It appears that you are against everything! What do you stand for?
    FREEDOM ! LIBERTY ! Limited government. Capitalism. Low Taxes.
    I believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; literally read and properly construed.
    I support Free Expression and the right to Self-Defense. For individuals and countries.
    I'm in favor of topless sunbathing for both sexes.
    I support nude dancing.
    I oppose the Death Penalty except for certain politicians who've become insufferable bores.
    I support low taxes and oppose earmarks.
    I support religious freedom including the right to be FREE FROM RELIGION.
    I support decriminalizing drugs and prostitution.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    We've talked about moving, as well. Will we actually do it? Who knows? We have young kids and lots of family. But, it's definitely something we've considered.

    Unless, of course, the overall climate of the US changes for the better.

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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    ^^^ Where are you considering, I'm simply curious?

    If there was going to be some mass exodus of people from this country why didn't it happen in the last four years? What exactly are they waiting for?
    I also repeat, who's going to take them?

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    God/dess leilanicandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    ^^^ Where are you considering, I'm simply curious?

    If there was going to be some mass exodus of people from this country why didn't it happen in the last four years? What exactly are they waiting for?
    I also repeat, who's going to take them?


    Well these are professionals. I will get a better deal working in europe as a nurse than in the USA

    Plus if I become a citzens they have better benfits. I also hear canda is good for nursing also! I for one dont like the fact that insurance for nurses. Is so high, I wont have to worry about that in many other countries. Besides most profesionals make out pretty well. In other countries.

    Why would they not allow professional? People who will get paid well! Who will pay taxes to live in thier country!
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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    If there was going to be some mass exodus of people from this country why didn't it happen in the last four years? What exactly are they waiting for?
    it's arguable that they've been waiting for some clear future direction in regard to tax rates / standard of living of the US 'middle class'


    Why would they not allow professional? People who will get paid well! Who will pay taxes to live in thier country!
    with notable exceptions, lots of 'first world' countries are happy to accept immigrants with professional skills and financial means. Indeed such immigrants actually pay taxes, and contribute far more tax revenue to whatever country they live in than they consume via gov't services. This of course is typically NOT the case with low skill immigrants, which is why most 'first world' countries strictly control their numbers.


    I would also add that, under some circumstances, emigrant Americans wouldn't even need to work in a new home country ... they could simply 'retire' at age 40. This is made possible by extremely low cost of living (which is not burdened by taxes to fund social welfare programs / military presence around the globe) as well as total freedom from taxes on 'offshore' income (like stock and bond income from major exchange transactions).

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    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    FREEDOM ! LIBERTY ! Limited government. Capitalism. Low Taxes.
    I believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; literally read and properly construed.
    I support Free Expression and the right to Self-Defense. For individuals and countries.
    I'm in favor of topless sunbathing for both sexes.
    I support nude dancing.
    I oppose the Death Penalty except for certain politicians who've become insufferable bores.
    I support low taxes and oppose earmarks.
    I support religious freedom including the right to be FREE FROM RELIGION.
    I support decriminalizing drugs and prostitution.
    So, you're a Libertarian then? There seem to be a few on SW.

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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I would say your the exception to the rule.

    I don't see where these people are going to go that things will be so much better?? Of the places that I would consider "better", I doubt they would take me.
    Many people view many places outside the US as better places to live. I'm one of those. Of course everyone looks at things differently so what's better for you won't be better for me. Also if you haven't really checked things out elsewhere, you wouldn't know if there's anything better or not.

    As for exceptions to the rule. Do you have ANY idea how many Americans have emigrated to other places, and not come back? Lots. I've seen them while travelling. They have NO desire to go back to the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    Many people view many places outside the US as better places to live. I'm one of those. Of course everyone looks at things differently so what's better for you won't be better for me. Also if you haven't really checked things out elsewhere, you wouldn't know if there's anything better or not.

    As for exceptions to the rule. Do you have ANY idea how many Americans have emigrated to other places, and not come back? Lots. I've seen them while travelling. They have NO desire to go back to the US.
    Why would ya?! The rest of the world is so amazing! There's so many people from the good ol' Us of A that leave and go, "Well fuck, I don't wanna go home!" The only reason they end up back there is because they have to, not want to. God there's SO MUCH of the world, I can't say any one place is better than another. So much to see so much to live. Why isolate yourself to one little dying country?


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  22. #22
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    There's plenty of places in the world to be happy, and I haven't traveled all that much. I could see being quite content in other countries, just as friends I've had from those other countries end up being quite content here.

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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    Why would ya?! The rest of the world is so amazing! There's so many people from the good ol' Us of A that leave and go, "Well fuck, I don't wanna go home!" The only reason they end up back there is because they have to, not want to. God there's SO MUCH of the world, I can't say any one place is better than another. So much to see so much to live. Why isolate yourself to one little dying country?
    Amen!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    it's arguable that they've been waiting for some clear future direction in regard to tax rates / standard of living of the US 'middle class'




    with notable exceptions, lots of 'first world' countries are happy to accept immigrants with professional skills and financial means. Indeed such immigrants actually pay taxes, and contribute far more tax revenue to whatever country they live in than they consume via gov't services. This of course is typically NOT the case with low skill immigrants, which is why most 'first world' countries strictly control their numbers.


    I would also add that, under some circumstances, emigrant Americans wouldn't even need to work in a new home country ... they could simply 'retire' at age 40. This is made possible by extremely low cost of living (which is not burdened by taxes to fund social welfare programs / military presence around the globe) as well as total freedom from taxes on 'offshore' income (like stock and bond income from major exchange transactions).
    It depends on the country. Some are more welcoming than others. I find it a bit strange that people seriously think that other countries are so much better than ours.
    Europe ? Assuming they let you in and let you stay, high taxes and decliniing populations that are aging.
    Canada ? O.K. but get ready for higher taxes and long waits for non-emergency medical care plus they don't call it "Winterpeg" for nothing .
    Australia ? O.K. But it's a long trip.

    Assuming you learn a language other than English you could live in many parts of Latin America but it would be easier to do so as a retiree. Some have VERY strict Immigration regulations plus you'll generally have to put up with more crime, more corruption, more pollution and less sanitation and worse medical care.

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    Default Re: 10% of Americans considering leaving the country !!!

    That's actually my plan when I finish college, but only because I want to experience all that's out there.

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