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Thread: Dumbshit lactational consultant

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Dumbshit lactational consultant

    My girlfriend C recently gave birth to 2 beautiful twin girls who weighed less than 5 lbs each at birth. They're teeny, and they developed jaundice. Due to this and a few other problems, they tire easily when breastfeeding. They're not interested into latching onto the boob, and when they do they tire from the effort and fall asleep. They do fine when bottlefed, especially with the fast-flow preemie bottles, so C is pumping and bottling her fresh-squeezed boobie juice. This is working just fine so far, although the doc wants to prescribe nutrient-dense formula as a supplement to make sure the babies are properly fed. She's determined to make this work, so she talked to a lactational consultant. The stupid bitch's suggestion? Starve the babies into breastfeeding. Feed them once a day and let them latch on until they start properly breastfeeding. Again, these are teeny sub-5 lb babies with jaundice and other problems who need extra nutrition and need to gain weight, and they just fall asleep rather than try to latch because they're too worn out from crying.

    I'm not knocking lactavists, as I totally support breastfeeding. However, I don't deny that I have run into plenty of bad apples. Not only did this bitch want to starve the kids, but she also started on a bit of a speech about how mothers who truly care about their kids will breastfeed. Jesus, postpartum is stressful enough without the insinuations and judgments.
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    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    That's stupid. She should listen to a doctor over a lactational consultant anyway - what sort of qualifications does a lactational consultant have? Ive never heard of such a position.

    My friend went thru a bit of stress with the nurses at the hospital she gave birth at. They were very aggressive about breast feeding.
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    Senior Member JPremium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Did the consultant even know what kind of babies she was talking about? I've heard that most newborns can live for like 3 days after birth without being fed, but that's only because they spend the last month of gestation fattening up. Honestly, though - preemies?! Wouldn't they, I dunno, die?

  4. #4
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    I don't think she should STARVE the kids, but NO if she wants to have a healthy breastfeeding relationship, formula should never be introduced. Breastmilk is always best. Your friend should keep offering the breast as often as possible. Breastfeeding is something the mother and baby have to learn and babies don't learn to breastfeed by using bottles. Fast flow anything in particular will be very detrimental.

    If they are not having enough wet and dirty diapers per day (I don't know the standard for premies - but for a healthy newborn it's about 7 - 9 wet and 2 -3 dirty I think) then they can be fed using an SNS, or supplemental nursing system. It's a bottle that you wear around your neck, and a very thin tube that enters the mouth with the nipple. She can put pumped breast milk into the SNS. Medela makes them, or the lactation consultant should be able to provide one. Again, there is absolutely no need for formula. A mother's body knows what nutrients her particular baby needs and it will produce more of whatever the baby is lacking. It is a perfect system.
    It's true that the babies don't really need to eat for the first 3 days technically, but they should be getting plenty of practice with latching and sucking, as that colostrum is a very nutritious and necessary host of nutrients and will help digestion for when the milk does come in around day 3.

    If they are having trouble latching, she can also use a nipple shield.

    Above all she REALLY REALLY needs to get those babies to nurse, and at the very least to give them only breastmilk. It's a very important time to start doing it.
    I'm surprised that anyone is suggesting formula actually, although that's what a doctor who doesn't know anything about lactation would say. They love to promote formula because they have a financial relationship with those companies, always sending samples home with new moms to ruin the breastfeeding relationship.

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    God/dess Lysondra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Lactational Consultant = another word for a mother who can't let go so gets her nose in everyone else's business aka TitNazi.


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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    Lactational Consultant = another word for a mother who can't let go so gets her nose in everyone else's business aka TitNazi.
    I know nothing about the actual topic discussed here but I just had to interject to say that "TitNazi" is the best term I've heard in a long time.
    Seriously. Awesome.

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    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    ^^
    Lysondra has come up plenty of hilarious terms on here I <3 Lysondra.
    Titnazi is ROFL kinda funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
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    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    ^^
    Lysondra has come up plenty of hilarious terms on here I <3 Lysondra.
    I had kinda noticed that she has a way with words. Also she has Morena Baccarin in her avatar. I was thinking of declaring my love for her but I thought that might be a bit forward of me.

    Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    Lactational Consultant = another word for a mother who can't let go so gets her nose in everyone else's business aka TitNazi.
    Amen. They seem to forget that unsolicited advice is rude, and if for some reason breastfeeding isn't working out, they treat it as "excuses, excuses, here's all the advice you've already heard 15 times so there's no reason that you shouldn't be doing this." Yeah, there are definitely some out there who use it as a high horse and will look down even if a bottlefed kid grows up to be a Nobel Peace Prize winner who cures cancer.

    Alexxa, she does offer the breast several times a day. I mentioned in the first post her problems, which are none on her end and all on the babies' end. Also, she IS giving them only breastmilk, pumped and bottled. Remember, these are two sickly babies who tire easily (they have rabbit metabolisms too), and one healthy kid is difficult enough to learn breastfeeding on. The doc has actually encouraged her to breastfeed, but is concerned with the low weight and jaundice. She's not out to introduce evil formula, as she suggested it as a supplement so the kids can flush this jaundice out and actually catch up on growth development. Due to this, they (mom included, who can't bear the thought of her new babies going hungry) can't really risk waiting things out the hard way.

    Also, I'm a bit unnerved about the whole, "Formula should NEVER be introduced." I cook meals, but I still have canned soups in the pantry. My mom always kept a spare can of formula on hand in case things got busy, especially with the twins. When I hear that line, no matter what context, I can't help but get the impression that formula feeders are made out to be failures, and that it's better for a kid to starve than be given formula.

    Anyway, my point of this posting wasn't to about the importance of breastfeeding, because we all know that breastmilk is good. I posted this because I was so amazed by the stupidity of this consultant. Yes, she did know that the babies were about 4.5 lbs each at birth and developed jaundice.
    Last edited by Hatshepsut; 02-26-2008 at 04:37 AM.
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  10. #10
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    Lactational Consultant = another word for a mother who can't let go so gets her nose in everyone else's business aka TitNazi.
    Wow. Well, I guess I shouldn't pursue going to school to be a lactation consultant like I was thinking of doing. I might be looked at as a nazi. Lactation consultants are there to help women breastfeed. Their advice may not always be what we want to hear 100% of the time but they do provide a valuable service. That's like saying stripper = dumbshit highschool dropout who is addicted to drugs and scams men for money all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    Amen. They seem to forget that unsolicited advice is rude, and if for some reason breastfeeding isn't working out, they treat it as "excuses, excuses, here's all the advice you've already heard 15 times so there's no reason that you shouldn't be doing this." Yeah, there are definitely some out there who use it as a high horse and will look down even if a bottlefed kid grows up to be a Nobel Peace Prize winner who cures cancer.
    It's not unsolicited advice and I don't see how it's rude to try and help someone nurse their child. Lactation consultants are PAID professionals.
    Not all people in every profession are wonderful people, but you forget about the thousands who do help women successfully feed their babies around the world. I don't know why you have to turn this into a negative thing against all lactation consultants over ONE person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    Alexxa, she does offer the breast several times a day. I mentioned in the first post her problems, which are none on her end and all on the babies' end. Also, she IS giving them only breastmilk, pumped and bottled. Remember, these are two sickly babies who tire easily (they have rabbit metabolisms too), and one healthy kid is difficult enough to learn breastfeeding on. The doc has actually encouraged her to breastfeed, but is concerned with the low weight and jaundice. She's not out to introduce evil formula, as she suggested it as a supplement so the kids can flush this jaundice out and actually catch up on growth development. Due to this, they (mom included, who can't bear the thought of her new babies going hungry) can't really risk waiting things out the hard way.
    Many mothers with twins breastfeed for years. She will make enough milk for them if she breastfeeds. They're not going hungry with her milk, although I understand how it can be frightening to think they might. It is a very valid concern. Here is some information about jaundice from La Leche League, a very respected breastfeeding community made of board certified lactation consultants:


    At the bottom they mention that the best therapy for jaundice is exposure to sunlight and breastmilk.

    You mention that your friend has a hard time breastfeeding TWO kids. Well, if she wants to do it, there is a way. I guarantee that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    Also, I'm a bit unnerved about the whole, "Formula should NEVER be introduced." I cook meals, but I still have canned soups in the pantry. My mom always kept a spare can of formula on hand in case things got busy, especially with the twins. When I hear that line, no matter what context, I can't help but get the impression that formula feeders are made out to be failures, and that it's better for a kid to starve than be given formula.

    Anyway, my point of this posting wasn't to about the importance of breastfeeding, because we all know that breastmilk is good. I posted this because I was so amazed by the stupidity of this consultant. Yes, she did know that the babies were about 4.5 lbs each at birth and developed jaundice.
    Okay let me rephrase that. Formula should never be introduced if the mother wants to have a healthy breastfeeding relationship with her baby. I also guarantee that one bottle will turn into two, which turns into three as her supply slowly drops to nothing. Trust me when I say from experience that it's a downward spiral. A baby needs breastmilk from his mother, plain and simple, especially if he is premature and is struggling to thrive. It really is the best thing and you know that.
    I see moms on the LLL forums ALL THE TIME saying their doctor told them to supplement and now their supply is almost gone and now they want to relactate. It's a very long and difficult process that I'm in but I do it because I love my daughter and want to give her the best.

    It is definitely better to give formula than to have starving baby, but if it can be prevented, shouldn't it?
    I am just offering help here to your friend. I'm not doing this for some high horse agenda or anything. I am genuinely an advocate for children and would like to see her babies thrive. Nothing more. It is something I have done a lot of research on and know a lot about.
    If that makes me a nazi, then so be it.

    One more thing - if your friend wants to let one bad piece of advice from someone ruin her whole BFing experience, then I guess there is nothing anyone could do to save that for her. It really is her choice.

  11. #11
    MsQwerty
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    I disagree, a lot of doctors are absolutely shit in this field and nurses too. Its always good to get information from more than one source.

    I can see where the consultant is coming from but probably because I know of a few stories like this that have turned out ok.
    Its a horrible situation though!

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    That's stupid. She should listen to a doctor over a lactational consultant anyway - what sort of qualifications does a lactational consultant have? Ive never heard of such a position.

    My friend went thru a bit of stress with the nurses at the hospital she gave birth at. They were very aggressive about breast feeding.

  12. #12
    MsQwerty
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Lysondra, what is your interest in this? For someone who doesnt want or like kids and i assume never wants to breastfeed, you have so much negative stuff to add to any conversation remotely related

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    Lactational Consultant = another word for a mother who can't let go so gets her nose in everyone else's business aka TitNazi.

  13. #13
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    I know, right?^^ It just doesn't make sense to me either. I don't want to exclude anyone from a conversation but when someone repeatedly gets involved in discussions that they don't really have firsthand knowledge about (or claims to have an aversion to it), it strikes me as odd.

    Another thing I wanted to mention about preemies and breastfeeding is that there is more to breastfeeding than just the milk. It offers so much in the way of bonding and the skin-to-skin contact during nursing can help their temperature regulation, breathing and growth tremendously.

    People who say bottle feeding is easier have never really breastfed, I think. I've done both and nursing was far easier because you don't have to make or wash bottles, leave the baby to go prepare formula instead of comforting him right away...okay I could go on but I do think BFing is so much easier. I'd hate to have to bottle feed TWO babies.

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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Yeah that is pretty dumbshit, babies should be fed on demand. Preferably breastmilk which is the best thing for all babies, even preemies. The next best thing for preemies is infant massage, it will seriously help with gaining weight and is a good way for mothers and fathers to bond with their children. Touch is the most necessary sensation, it's the only one we can't live without. Some hospitals even hire massage therapists to work on preemies since the benefits are so helpful. Infant massage is very simple to perform and when done routinely will facilitate growth in preemies.
    http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/T110209.asp

  15. #15
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    I think a lactational councelor can be a very good resource. Obviously you got someone very dumb.

    As long as her babies are maintaining and gaining, it sounds like her methods are just fine. Once they've gained a bit, and adjusted to the world, she should work harder at giving the breast, but untill then, her breastmilf in a bottle is just perfect.

    Doctors are known to be very anti-breast for the most part. many of them get gifts or kickbacks from formula companies.... so their advice on this isn't all that relaible, imo....

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    Member NadiaBaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    How old are the babies. Couple days? Even though the babies seem like theyre just tired and fall asleep, maybe its possible that theyve had enough? Or are they very fussy? I agree with not giving formula at all. What shes doing now will be just fine. BUT, nipples on a bottle are A LOT easier to suck on than the real thing. If she keeps offering the bottle, they may get used to sucking on that and not want to try harder to get it from her breast. "Starving" the babies has some truth to it. Im sure she didnt mean to litterally not feed them anything. I think what she was trying to say was 'if a baby is hungry enough, baby will eat'. Try, try and try again. Ive heard of tickling babys feet to keep her awake. Maybe try that?

    Good luck!

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Never mind this. I didn't come for advice or anything, she's already being bombarded with advice, and none of you are professionals who know this situation. All I'm hearing is, "Doctors are evil and have breastfeeding and she needs to keep breastfeeding!" Also, I hate it when things are trivialized, aka, "Women have been doing it for so long, she can do it too!" I made this thread because this woman was a dumbshit who wanted to starve the kids while they're sick.

    I'm skipping out of my own thread.
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    God/dess sassysummer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    i have to totally agree with alexxa on this one.

    having breastfed 3 babies myself, i unerstand her frustration.

    my first did the SAME thing. he was jaundice, would scream, then latch on and fall asleep.

    one thing you have to understand also, is that it's perfectly normal for a baby to fall asleep on the breast after latching, it's a comfort thing....kinda like "aahhh, this is gooood" type feeling. if she tickles their foot or touches the side of the their mouth while latched, it will make their suckling instinct kick in (even asleep) and they'll do a few little suckles. with newborn twins, she should expect to just live with them on her, lol. once she lets down in their mouth, again, they will eat, the letdown forces them to drink faster (like a bottle)

    also, the babies don't need as much breast milk as they do formula. formula is without a doubt inferior to breastmilk. ounce for ounce babies need more formula than breastmilk just to survive.

    also, in regards to the jaundice, formula will not help "flush" the jaundice out. in fact, it will help store the bilirubin in the liver because their bodies actually have to spend more time and energy processing the formula in their livers, where the jaundice is coming from in the first place. so breastmilk, but also VERY importantly sun or a bili-bed. also, most babies are jaundice. if they aren't on bili-beds, they probably aren't very jaundice. jaundice starts at the head and the yellow goes down the body, the rule of thumb is you don't need to do anything special (like a bilibed) until the jaundice hits below mid waist.

    she needs to toss the bottles asap and get an sns system. otherwise, she may lose them to bottles all together (that is if she really really wants to keep them on breast) since they are easier for the babies. at least until they older and can switch from breast to bottle back to breast easily.

    unfortunately i've seen sooooooo many doctors recommend formula. dr's are NOT the know all end all to everything. they make mistakes and many are still very uninformed in re: to breastfeeding. i notice it's really prevalent in the south though...which correlates with the low breastfeeding rate there.

    hopefully she wont' give up! i know how hard is at first with just one, but two can be daunting. just remind her in about a month, if no bottles are introduced, it gets WAY easier!





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  19. #19
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    Never mind this. I didn't come for advice or anything, and none of you are professionals who know this situation. All I'm hearing is, "Doctors are evil and have breastfeeding and she needs to keep breastfeeding!" Also, I hate it when things are trivialized, aka, "Women have been doing it for so long, she can do it too!" I made this thread because this woman was a dumbshit who wanted to starve the kids while they're sick.

    I'm skipping out of my own thread.
    what did you post for then?

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    I made this thread because this woman was a dumbshit who wanted to starve the kids while they're sick. I thought that more people would share this horror, but all I'm getting is the typical flood of advice, and I'm not even the one with the kid.
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    I made this thread because this woman was a dumbshit who wanted to starve the kids while they're sick. I thought that more people would share this horror, but all I'm getting is the typical flood of advice, and I'm not even the one with the kid.

    Well you didnt like the advice the person thats qualified gave you. We're just tryin to help.

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    God/dess RoseWhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    First, I'm sorry that your friend is having a rough time. Dealing with either twins or preemies is challenging enough; dealing with both must be quite exhausting and frustrating at times. I have a friend who delivered her twins at 30 weeks recently - it was tough all around, but they're all fine now. I hope things work out for the best for your friend and her babes.

    Now, I know you're frustrated with the turn this conversation has taken, but women who have been through similar experiences firsthand are bound to have both strong feelings and strong opinions about the matter as a result. I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing either one, as long as it's meant in the spirit of helping your friend in her expressed desire to breastfeed. If she didn't want to breastfeed, then we'd definitely have no place in making suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut
    Amen. They seem to forget that unsolicited advice is rude.
    Well, I'm not trying to go on the attack here, but the thing is, it wasn't unsolicited advice in this case, was it? Your friend, unless your first post is incorrect, talked to a LC on purpose, in order to get some help. That is, by definition, soliciting advice. Had this LC been strolling by & just barged into the NICU totally uninvited & started lecturing, then that would definitely out of line. I have a huge problem with unsolicited advice, honestly. But this situation doesn't really qualify.

    As for lactation consultants vs. doctors - well, there are bad apples in both categories. There are great, well-informed-on-breastfeeding doctors, and there are doctors who seriously haven't cracked a book on the topic in the last 15 years. And likewise all lactation consultants are not created equal. Some are truly experts who have spent years upon years seriously studying all aspects of breastfeeding, and some are basically L&D nurses who went to a weekend seminar as part of continuing ed and now call themselves "lactation consultants".

    (Much in the same way that some hospitals have responded to women's growing desire for birthing centers by throwing up some curtains in delivery rooms & adding a rocking chair without actually changing any of their policies, some hospitals hear that women want LCs, and rather than hiring experiences pros, they do what I described above. But I digress, and this is obviously a hot button for me.)

    Lots of folks here have made good suggestions about IF SHE WANTS TO. I won't go on and on about it, but introducing formula really does jeopardize the future of your nursing relationship. It's just a fact. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will make an already difficult situation even harder IF - again, IF - she wants to breastfeed. She already has a difficult situation that deserves compassion, as i said before, and dealing with hospital schedules and policies in the NICU presents allkinds of roadblocks, I know. Here's a few resources I found:

    Some basic info.

    A great forum with all kinds of firsthand AND expert experience.

    One specific recent thread on nursing, though there are many many others.

    Finally, for the record, I am an adopted child who was formula-fed, if you need my credential as a person who knows that it's also possible to survive on formula.
    "Before I conceived you, I wanted you. Before you were born, I loved you. Before you were here an hour, I would die for you. This is the miracle of life." -- Maureen Hawkins

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    Veteran Member oohdamnbaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    Just wanted to suggest one thing really quick -

    Syringe feeding is a much better option than bottle-feeding pumped milk. Newborns, especially premature newborns, will get used to lazily sucking on a bottle nipple and will sometimes refuse to efficiently suckle the breast. Syringe feeding takes a bit longer than bottle-feeding, but won't cause nipple confusion.

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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    ^^ Really good point! I know nipple confusion can be a big risk when trying to establish nursing.
    "Before I conceived you, I wanted you. Before you were born, I loved you. Before you were here an hour, I would die for you. This is the miracle of life." -- Maureen Hawkins

    "I just can't get over how much babies cry. I really had no idea what I was getting into. To tell you the truth, I thought it would be more like getting a cat." -- Anne Lamott

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    Veteran Member oohdamnbaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dumbshit lactational consultant

    I went through hell with nipple confusion. I had to supplement with hindmilk because my daughter wasn't completely emptying my breast and was rapidly losing weight; I didn't consider that she may get lazy after sucking on the bottle, but sure enough she did and went on a terrible nursing strike. Syringe feeding can be a bit of a pain, but it's so worth it to not have to deal with nipple confusion.

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