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Thread: I need some serious advise re: molestation

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    God/dess sassysummer's Avatar
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    Default I need some serious advise re: molestation

    i don't even know where to start, so if i ramble, please excuse me...

    ok, my husband just got a call a few hours ago from his brother in alaska. (i'm gonna be changing names here for obvious reasons)

    background before i get too deep..some of you may remember the major drama i had about a year and half ago with my crazy ass sil...well, this is her husband. she was molested as a child which i'm guessing totally f'ed her up. she's an attention seeking sob that always tries to start shit up. very long background story short.

    my husbands brother told him that they just found out from their older 3 boys (they are like 15, 12or13 and that "uncle j" touched them. this is a man that is pretty close with them since my crazy sil latched on to him. he does not live where they live (he lives in WA state), but has visited about 4 times in the last few years, at least week long visits.

    now, uncle j is the "funny" uncle...you know, the one that makes jokes, wrestles with the kids, all of the kids love him, my kids get excited when they get to see him. he's married for like 30 yrs, has 2 boys, who both have kids and they let him babysit them.

    i don't have many details yet, but i do know they have called the cops and an investigation is probably underway.

    my husband sucks at asking questions, so the most i got from him was that the kids said he "touched" them while wrestling around with them.

    i don't know what to think.

    i would not put it past my crazy sil to put it in the kids heads for the last years that this happened. i honestly believe that she has munchausen syndrome (the oldest she swears has sever adhd and learning disabilities (so not true, i've been around this kid, he is smart as hell), the second kid was always in the dr or hospital for something, she insisted he be antibiotics constantly, when that seemed to clear up, the third kid all of a sudden she is convinced is bi-polar, starting at 5 yrs old!, who know what the 4th will come up with).

    she is drama seeking, a constant victim and has a history of stirring things up in the family. (she's f'ed with me a couple of times till the last time i called her ass out and proved to everyone how she was lying and making things up, she constantly is trying to make my mother in law feel like shit, when she does nothing but help them ALL the time, etc etc) apparently the 12 yr old "got it" the most, which is also the kid that was "always" sick.

    on the other hand i would NEVER discount a child saying something happened to them. i believe their kids over my overwhelming urge to think she has somehow put false thoughts in their heads. which isn't that hard to do, especially with such a manipulating mother.

    so know i have to talk to my boys. he's never really been alone with them. he's always wrestled with them in front of us. i just don't know how to bring it up! i don't want to say "did uncle j every touch you here?", cause i know from experience that my kids will say what they think you want it here, and a question like that could easily get a yes by the tone of it ya know? i've always told them that everything in their undies was for them only and not for anyone else to touch except for mommy/daddy during washing or a dr when we are with them etc..and vise versa.

    i'm sure my mother in law is going nuts right now, this her closest brother. i think i need to talk to my husbands sis and see what she thinks also, they spend more time with him than we do (we only see "uncle j" maybe once or twice a year).

    has anyone had to ask their kids if they've been touched???





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    Veteran Member blayze's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    maybe try asking if anyone has ever touched them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable.
    then if yes, ask where. then ask who.
    so that its not a leading question or you don't put the ideas in their heads if it really didnt happen.

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    Veteran Member thefrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    dont know if this will help http://www.rainn.org
    i love the work these people do.

  4. #4
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    When I was 16 I babysat a 7yr old who said his teacher touched him "down there".

    I asked him a lot of questions.
    When- i don't know
    Where- in the classroom
    how many times- a lot.

    But he went to a private school with 3 teachers for a class of 12 students. it was the schools policy to never have 1 teacher and 1 student alone.

    Regardless, his parents took it very seriously, and he was taken out of school, and put into therapy. He later told his therapist he made it up to get his teacher fired, b/c she confiscated his yoyo and wouldn't give it back.

    luckily the teaher didn't get in trouble.

    I think most of the time, it's valid. The abuse is probably there. But what with tv and parents being so worried, I don't know.... sometimes kids can be manipulative. Parents can be too.

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    Veteran Member Hot2Trot's Avatar
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    Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Hi sassysummer. I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation;
    .

    This story reminds me of my mom telling me before a family get-together
    when I was just 3 years old,
    "Your uncles love you very much but THEY ARE STILL MEN and they are not your father- Do not sit on your uncles' laps;"

    ( ! )
    Can you imagine? I was confused by that and even a little scared of, and awkward, towards my uncles past that point, but her saying that caused me to always be conscious of my surroundings even in "family" situations. Thankfully, in my case, it was only a precaution...


    If you are looking to be more succint than just asking them "did uncle _ every touch you here?" as you have stated, their ages are a factor in how you question them for indicators of sexual abuse.

    If your suspicions hold validity (No offense of course, but hopefully not), coming at them too hard might cause them to "clam up" while coming at them too soft might encourage them to continue their silence to protect their "favorite" uncle if there is in fact any cause for concern in the first place- but again, hopefully, there is not.

    What ages are the children sassy?


    .
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    i wish there was a vaccine for child sexual abusers


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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Since this stuff, or even the insinuation, ruins peoples' lives, and esp. family relationships, and since kids are easily influenced and can 'make up stories', it is extremely important that the truth be gotten to very carefully. If some over-zealous 'expert' or cop over-rides these precautions, and stops this from happenig, I think that person should be skinned alive and put in a rock salt bath.

    I know these perverted things happen a lot, but kids are just not aware of the effect their 'stories' have on everyone. On the other hand, it would be a pretty isolated person who doesn't realize what effect these perversions have on little kids.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    God/dess sassysummer's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    h2t, the kids that are saying this are now 15, 12ish, and 8. my boys are just turned 9 and 6, my daughter just turned 4, but she has, until recently, not been fond of men in general after santa freaked her out at 2 yrs old, lol.

    i'm not the only one with these suspicions. my husband immediately had the same thought. this woman is very manipulative and a liar. every couple of years, she seems to have some big something happen to her so the whole family gives her the whole "oooh, poor "m", what can i do to help you" etc etc...after her last incident with me, the family finally got a clue and sort of threw up their hands and said they're done with her.


    i guess we'll take them out somewhere this weekend for fun stuff to do and maybe i'll go to the library and get a book or something. both of my boys need visuals to understand, especially my 6 yr. if anything i can look at this as a learning opportunity for them.

    gah, this is so weird and surreal





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    Veteran Member Hot2Trot's Avatar
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    Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Quote Originally Posted by sassysummer View Post
    if anything i can look at this as a learning opportunity for them.
    Absolutely! Especially in this world we live in. I mean, there have always been sickos to watch out for but total freakshows were few and far between at one point. Now it's like if you aren't a freakshow, you don't fit into this world.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassysummer View Post
    gah, this is so weird and surreal
    I know, so sorry sweetie.
    I am finishing up my response, but apprehensive about posting it here, as I wrote it out in detailed technicality so it is quite long, but I tried to cover every possible scenario within it...

    Tell me sassysummer, do you prefer PM, or here?

    .
    "Everything that is in Heaven and on earth is penetrated with connectedness." - Hildegard of Bingen [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Well, except that it's a virus, so antibiotics wouldn't work against it in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nautilus
    i wish there was a vaccine for child sexual abusers


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    Featured Member Sunshine73's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Very calmly sit them down and ask them if an adult has ever touched them in a way that made them feel uncomfortable. Pay attention to their reactions. If they say "No" like they are trying to cover something up, say something like "If you were ever touched in a way that made you feel weird, it was not your fault and you have nothing to be ashamed of. You did nothing wrong. If you tell me I promise I will believe you and I can protect you from this sort of thing from happening again". Remember, you have to remain calm while you do this, otherwise they may not say anything out of fear of freaking you out. Then pay attention to their reaction. Whatever their answer is, make sure you tell them that if anything like this ever happens then please let you know so that you can protect them because you love them so much, no matter what.
    Quote Originally Posted by Picaresque View Post
    Maria Callas said it best: "When my critics stop hissing, I shall know I'm slipping."

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    Featured Member Sunshine73's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    You may also want to ask each of them separately. If one was touched and the other wasn't, they may be too ashamed to say anything in front of the other kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Picaresque View Post
    Maria Callas said it best: "When my critics stop hissing, I shall know I'm slipping."

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    God/dess sassysummer's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    sunshine, good point on talking to them seperatly, i didn't think of that. also h2t, here or pm is fine. i'm an open book, i don't get offended easily at all and am very open minded. whatever you have to say may help someone else down the line, so however you feel comfy is fine with me!


    thanks everyone so far for your help. it's really helping me prepare for this.

    i haven't talked to my normal sis in law yet, i'm not quite sure what to say.....i have never ever had to deal with anything like this.





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    Veteran Member Hot2Trot's Avatar
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    Post Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    I am really sorry you have to go through this sassysummer. I hope this helps, even in the slightest way to get to the bottom of your suspicions, which you are completely justified in having.

    Hopefully, he's just a weird guy who gives off a weird vibe. We all know someone like that who we know and love dearly, but would still be afraid to look into their closet; LoL.

    I am extremely interested in how this turns out (hopefully for the best sweetie!) Please keep me updated, even if it's through a PM.

    And if you need anything else sassysummer, please, do not hesitate;
    .


    .
    Last edited by Hot2Trot; 02-29-2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Point made.
    "Everything that is in Heaven and on earth is penetrated with connectedness." - Hildegard of Bingen [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by IsobelWren
    Well, except that it's a virus, so antibiotics wouldn't work against it in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nautilus
    i wish there was a vaccine for child sexual abusers


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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Quote Originally Posted by sassysummer View Post

    so know i have to talk to my boys. he's never really been alone with them. he's always wrestled with them in front of us. i just don't know how to bring it up! i don't want to say "did uncle j every touch you here?", cause i know from experience that my kids will say what they think you want it here, and a question like that could easily get a yes by the tone of it ya know? i've always told them that everything in their undies was for them only and not for anyone else to touch except for mommy/daddy during washing or a dr when we are with them etc..and vise versa.
    Take this with a grain of salt, but kids heads (in these manners) speak in flavors of comfort, and uncomfortable.

    You will figure this out through observation and motherly instinct only. I suggest you go about it the following way.

    Acknowledge how often they see this uncle. When an oppertunity comes up, suggest your kids to do something nice for him, like get a gift or something. Make the gift requirement, through suggestion, to be something that could be done with just them and their uncle (the key here is that it CAN be enjoyed with just your kid and their uncle) like a board game. Watch how your children react to the idea.

    You can modify this to fit your kid's personalities, but you need to see how they react. If they are just not interested in the idea, or they are interested and suggest ideas, then good, they're comfortable with their uncle.

    What you're looking for is embarrassment like, lack of eye contact, or something negative that will alert you/ open the door to ask the questions you need to.

    See in a child's mind, if he's being made uncomfortable by someone, they mentally alienate themselves, so even though a boardgame can get played by 8 people, the child will only see themselves playing it alone with the aggressor because if he doesn't like his uncle that would be the worst case scenario, and thusly...the FEAR, and all he'll think about.

    Good luck. Really.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Veteran Member NekkoStarz's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Have you thought about taking them to a therapist to answer the question? You could always contact your local police department, tell them the situation & ask them to have their child specialist/therapist question your children.

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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Obviously this is a very serious situation.

    Understand that these kind of allegations can produce huge amounts of distress in a child's life. Just the investigative part of it alone; talking to detectives and doctors, child study teams, etc, can send a kid into a tailspin. So you really want to be fairly sure there is an issue before you open that door. However, if you are fairly sure then kick it in.

    At this point I would suggest that you take your kids aside individually, at a time when they're feeling OK [not a good time when they are preoccupied with something else of a "heavy" nature or are likely to blow you off because they are into something deeply]. Ask them if anyone, anyone at all, has made them feel uncomfortable by touching them any place that made them feel "icky" or embarrassed. Do not mention specifically any one person. Keep it general. If they ask who repeat "anyone at all, family, friend, neighbor, another kid, anyone". If talking about it is making them uncomfortable make sure you reinforce that whatever they have to say it will be OK and that you will believe them. Make sure they know if anything bad ever happens to them it isn't their fault. And above all be as natural and calm as you can while doing this.

    If they say no and sound like they mean it tell them that's good but if anything bad like that ever happens(ed) to them they should tell Mommy or Daddy about it [even though you've said it before]. I wouldn't press the issue past that point. They are going to be thinking about it and come back to you sooner than you think if there is actually an issue.

    If they say yes than find out who and in what way. Go slow. It takes kids time to open up about stuff like this. Especially if the person is someone who holds a place of esteem in the family unit: Like a favorite uncle. If they tell you about something you can't approve of, for obvious reasons, contact the police and make a report. Make sure you get an investigator that is competent and who makes your children feel comfortable. Don't simply assume they know their job and be a strong advocate for your child.

    A big problem for you is going to be if you sense something MIGHT be wrong but you can't be sure because your children won't open up to you. If that is the case you have to decide whether to go with the publicly available option [police, school social worker, etc] or private. If you have the resources, because of the trauma I mentioned above that putting a child through a sexual assault investigation incurs, I would suggest seeking out a professional [like a juvenile counselor, one who specializes in sexual assault victims preferably] privately first. Someone who might be able to get to the root of the issue with as little messing about with the child's psyche as possible [beware of ones who use suggestive methodology, like hypnosis, that might put ideas in a child's mind instead of get to them]. It shouldn't take ages for a competent practitioner to get to the root of any potential problem. Again, if any thing comes out of that then go right to the police.

    If you think you might want to ask me any questions please feel free to PM me and I'll answer them as straight forward as I can.

    I hope you and your family find their way out of this situation with as little drama as possible and will keep a good thought for you all.

    ----

    P.S.: I only suggest the PM because I have a professional background in this sort of work but would feel more comfortable discussing details about what I do for a living back channel.
    Last edited by Golden_Rule; 03-01-2008 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Added Post Script
    Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.


    BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?

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    God/dess UtahMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    I know a man who was fired from his job, lost his retirement after working 23 years as a school janitor, went to jail, and was shunned by all his neighbors because a bunch of girls got together and said he had touched their breasts in the lunchroom while they were dumping their trays. This was in full view of all the cooks, many teachers, all the other students, and one dad who sat in the lunchroom every day, none of whom saw him do anything. But the girls had a consistent story, and he went to jail. One of those girls came up to me and put her arms out for a hug, and when I did not respond, she grabbed my hand, turned around, and slapped it on her ten year old breast. My blood ran cold and I immediately went and reported it to my principal. To this day, I do not believe that he did what they accused him of.

    On the other hand, I have known children who were molested for years who did not report it because they were afraid that they would get a beloved relative in trouble and that he would go to jail. When it finally came out and he did go to jail, they felt guilty about it.

    So, it could go either way. Your sister-in-law may have a reputation for lying and exaggerating, but that does not mean that everything she says is a lie.

    In our community, their are several places a parent could take a child where a neutral therapist could work with him or her through play therapy and eventually get at the truth. It is important that the therapist be neutral, because what you are trying to find out is whether something happened or not and you have reason to think both ways. If you go to the police, their orientation is going to be to try to find evidence or proof of a crime, so that is not where you want to start.

    The counselor at your child's school might be able to recommend agencies in your community that could do such therapy. Usually, a school counselor is not trained in this sensitive specialty, but they will know where to go to get help. If you are concerned about your child's privacy, go to a counselor at a different school.

    Good luck to you. I am sorry you are having to go through this.

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    Default Re: I need some serious advise re: molestation

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahMike View Post
    I know a man who was fired from his job, lost his retirement after working 23 years as a school janitor, went to jail, and was shunned by all his neighbors because a bunch of girls got together and said he had touched their breasts in the lunchroom while they were dumping their trays. This was in full view of all the cooks, many teachers, all the other students, and one dad who sat in the lunchroom every day, none of whom saw him do anything. But the girls had a consistent story, and he went to jail. One of those girls came up to me and put her arms out for a hug, and when I did not respond, she grabbed my hand, turned around, and slapped it on her ten year old breast. My blood ran cold and I immediately went and reported it to my principal. To this day, I do not believe that he did what they accused him of.

    On the other hand, I have known children who were molested for years who did not report it because they were afraid that they would get a beloved relative in trouble and that he would go to jail. When it finally came out and he did go to jail, they felt guilty about it.

    So, it could go either way. Your sister-in-law may have a reputation for lying and exaggerating, but that does not mean that everything she says is a lie.
    I agree with Mike entirely. I certainly would never ever ever ignore the possibility of a child being molested, and it is a tragic fact that lots of cases go unreported because of exactly the same kind of fear Mike describes. And yet, again, a false accusation of this magnitude could literally ruin this man's entire life, irreparably, permanently.

    It would be HORRIBLE if she managed to ruin his life for her own selfish drama reasons - but it would be equally horrible if the charges were actually true but everyone dismissed them because of her past behavior. Talk about crying wolf!

    Lots of good advice here - the one thing I'd add is to make sure you are proceeding with experienced professionals ASAP. I think there are some well-intended ideas here about how to talk to the children, and I'm not saying any one thing is right or wrong - but there are people who spend their entire careers focusing on the extremely complicated task of interviewing children. This involves every field from law enforcement to linguistics to psychology.

    Full disclosure: my mother is actually a prosecutor specializing in child abuse, child sexual abuse, and sex crimes in general. Believe me, she's seen it all, and she actually contributed to a book about interviewing children. The more people (who totally do care and only mean well) that start interrogating the kids without knowing what they're doing, the more confusing it's going to be for the kids.

    Definitely do what you're doing in terms of being there for them, giving them positive interaction, an staying open to any hints or clues in that direction - but I do personally think a counselor with experience in this, at the very least, is the best & most accurate approach if you start to have serious suspicions about your own kids.

    It goes without saying that I hope everything turns out okay. Keep us posted!
    "Before I conceived you, I wanted you. Before you were born, I loved you. Before you were here an hour, I would die for you. This is the miracle of life." -- Maureen Hawkins

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