Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Hi SWs--I'm part of a panel on burlesque at CUNY on Wednesday, and I'm asking various people what they think of when people ask what the differences are between burlesque and strip joint stripping so that I can add them to the presentation I have already planned. If you have a moment, I'd love to get a few sentences of your reaction to the question. This is a topic that can bring up some serious issues and I'm not looking for the controversy, just the most common reactions.

    For my purposes, your comments may be useful to me even if I don't like them. If you don't think there's any difference, that's useful too. I'm trying to show a bit of the diversity of opinions on this subject, but almost anything can be helpful. If you do answer, please briefly describe your experiences with both burlesque and strip joints--I can't use your comments for my presentation if you don't.

    If you want to, you can comment here or send me a PM or email. I'd really appreciate it! And if you help me out, I'll be happy to send you a PDF copy of my pastie-making patterns and instructions.

    Here's a link to some info about the panel:
    http://web.gc.cuny.edu/Clags/calendar.shtml
    Last edited by Jo Weldon; 03-13-2008 at 02:26 PM. Reason: added relevant link, had to change NYU to CUNY
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  2. #2
    Yekhefah
    Guest

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Burlesque is about the performance, stripping is about the nudity.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Thanks! Where did you experience burlesque, and where did you experience strip joint stripping? Meaning, do you perform burlesque? do you go to burlesque shows? Are you a stripper, strip joint patron, roommate of a stripper, etc?

    You don't have to answer if you don't have time, it's a lot to ask. But I can't use your comment for the format of my presentation if I don't have some info about the source of your perspective.
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  4. #4
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    342
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    I went to a Southwest Burlesgue showcase about a month ago and I enjoyed it, but I did feel my fur bristle every time they went on (both at the show and in the newspaper) about how burlesque dancers were NOT the same as those dirty strippers that take money in their g-strings at the clubs. I totally get it, like how strippers need to make it known that they are NOT prostitutes, but it takes a little joy out of the show when you're a dirty stripper just trying to enjoy an evening out.

  5. #5
    God/dess
    Joined
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The Diner State
    Posts
    5,085
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Well, the only burlesque I've seen in person is Dita, but the main difference seems to be that in Burlesque you aren't selling anything. In stripping you are-dances, tips, whatev.

    I've seen strippers be fairly gimmicky (back in the day, when it was less ld oriented as well as those awesome Canadians), like burlesque-props, nice outfits, matching music, though this isn't common anymore. I WISH I could get into a giant martini glass or something, but the custies wouldn't get it. Strippers are a fantasy, but nowadays it doesn't pay to be that specific in most clubs-because we're selling.

    Oh, and I am a stripper, in PA. I have seen Dita once, in a club in MA. And I would go see live burlesque, but I hate NYC and generally have no time.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Thank you folks! Just let me know for sure whether you're current or former strippers, so I don't mistake anyone in my presentation.

    This is all going to be anonymous unless I ask for your permission to use a name, BTW. And I might get to video the presentation, if you're curious to see how it came out.
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  7. #7
    God/dess
    Joined
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The Diner State
    Posts
    5,085
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Weldon View Post
    Thank you folks! Just let me know for sure whether you're current or former strippers, so I don't mistake anyone in my presentation.

    This is all going to be anonymous unless I ask for your permission to use a name, BTW. And I might get to video the presentation, if you're curious to see how it came out.
    Current-11 years on and off. Mostly off.

  8. #8
    Yekhefah
    Guest

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Oh, gotcha. Been a stripper for about three years now, never done burlesque (though I really want to!), seen a few live burlesque shows.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    PM sent.
    I have a lot to say on the subject - I tried to keep it as brief as possible.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member dollyrocker's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2006
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    693
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Burlesque is more theatrical. Modern stripping is more acrobatic. Burlesque has gained social acceptance over the years and modern day stripping is now getting there as well. Ultimately, it's all (meant to be) sex work.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Thank you! This is such good stuff.
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  12. #12
    Veteran Member alenadowns's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    664
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 39 Times in 10 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Hi Joe.

    First I will say that I have seen you numerous times...but just on video!

    I do love burlesque...one of the last true forms of erotic entertainment.

    Burlesque was the reason I started dancing in 1987! I ran a non-nude review show...basically burlesque...as there was no nudity. Choreographed routines.

    I am an exdancer, (retired 2 yrs now) currently instruction pole dancing, burlesque tease, chair routines and floor shows in Canada. I teach multiple prop usage, fan, cane, parasol, boa, poi, staff and wand to both professional stage entertainers and those in the exotic industry.

    Burlesque is true entertainment. Meant to heighten the senses of the imagination. Nothing revealed, in fact usually hidden to raise the curiousity level to keep interest. Considered the best non contact "foreplay" around! Concentrating on feminine whiles...bodies are moved and manipulated into erotic art.

    Stripping is satisfying the primal visual need. Not much "foreplay" as you could call it...just right to the good stuff (as a man would say). Women's bodies are displayed for fantasy, with movements and disrobing that is more exotic than erotic. Nothing left to the imagination...no real mental stimulation...just physical stimulation via nudity.
    www.polejunkies.com
    Come Find the Junkie Within!

  13. #13
    Member chatte's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Ooo, this panel is totally cool!!

    Former stripper here. I don't really like that there has to be a difference, it doesn't help anyone.

    I started working in a nude club and then moved down to Florida for a stint where I was wearing pasties and a g-string and "not breaking space". The girls there would talk shit about girls who worked nude and I would be like, "hey I worked nude, I prefer nude, so what of it?" and they would always be surprised. Those hierarchies were always interesting to me: nude v. topless, lap dancing v. table dancing, floor show v. staying standing, stripping v. prostituting and so on. And now there's stripper v. burlesque dancer. I always thought it might be better to view it all on one continuum. We are all performers, no? Of course we have our biases, and of course we will tend to judge. It happens! But we shouldn't...

    I live in nyc and have seen a ton of burlesque (yourself included, my dear ). I used to work in this bar in brooklyn where they would have regular burly-q and often they (I won't name names) would drone on over the mic about how they were *not* strippers. godforbid!

    I've heard a lot people say that burlesque is an art form and stripping is just dirty crap. (Some people who have never even so much as walked into a strip club!) Now, surely, one distinction we all understand is that we strip for money (yes! hello? of course!) and people who go into burlesque don't necessarily pursue it thinking they are going to make bank. So, somehow, in some people's minds, that translates into burlesque becoming the "higher art" so to speak. Honestly, I have seen some stripping in my day that was true art--pure poetry, really--mesmerizing and gorgeous. And I have seen some burlesque that was pure crap. I have also seen burlesque that a stripper might judge to be waaay to raunchy. (Bottle ass-fucking, anyone?)

    So...hmm...I guess there are some of my thoughts in a very large nutshell.

    Good luck on your panel!!!

  14. #14
    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,936
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 32 Times in 26 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Current dancer here. I've been to a couple of burlesque shows, and saw your own lovely self perform at the Sex Workers' Art Show when you came through Austin.

    Here in Texas, stage dancing is very much just a prelude to lapdancing, so most girls don't put much trouble into it. Some girls don't even bother to smile, which is sad.

    Burlesque seems much for theatrical and choreographed, a sort of pantomime of sexuality. Stage dancing at a strip club is usually improvised, and less theatrical. When you dance on stage at a lapdancing club, you're not just "suggesting" sexuality -- you really have to put it over to the guys that you are willing to get sexual with them, personally, for $20.

    I also get the impression, and this makes me sad, that a lot of people see burlesque as some high sanitized performance of sexuality. Stylized sexiness without all the "nastiness" of actual, you know, sex. I don't know if burlesque performers are considered sex workers, whereas strippers pretty much are.

    It also makes me sad that here in Texas the stage performances are SOOOO secondary to the grindage. A lot of guys really do not appreciate a performance of sexuality nearly as much as they appreciate an ass grinding their crotch.

  15. #15
    Member pnotitia's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2004
    Location
    Dirty South, USA
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Hi Jo,

    Hmm...this is a very hard question to answer completely! I have danced in clubs for a short time in the past, done fetish and other work primarliy, and have been thinking about getting back into stripping lately. I have seen a few burlesque troups; a couple sub-par local outfits that combined sad retro stylings with pussy-cat attempts (cringe), Harlem Shake Burlesque, Big Burlesque, The SWAS lovelies BOB, Dirty Martini, and yourself. I've participated in a small queer/gender-fuck burlesque and worked it into my fetish work/identity.
    I feel that burlesque has the possibility to reflect and lend itself to a more diverse, subversive crowd- as well as individual perfomers. There is queer burlesque, Fat <3 burlesque, drag burlesque, political burlesque, etc, etc. I think not being obligated to fit into a industry standard to make money gives more freedom to the burlesque performer, giving more opportunity for artistic expression and individuality- which seems to come at the cost of not getting paid. The large difference is that the established market for stripping pays, and if performers (who arent the few established) want to do burlesque its usually a hobby on the side, with any costs of production coming out of their pocket.

    Burlesque focuses on the entertainment of a cohesive crowd, and stripping is really just individuals focusing on you, an unconnected crowd of individuals who seem to just be potential lap dances (jaded much?! haha).

    There is some YouTube clip out there of an interview with Dita Von Tesse , who arguably has no more individuallity or is any more outside of beauty standard confines than strippers, in which she explains why her act- and why burlesque IS NOT stripping- but a more classy and creative performance.
    I think because burlesque has been picked up by the mainstream, this further separates it from the filthy depths of stripping (haha!) and is now used (with its increased accessibility) with some snobbery in its supposed contrast with stripping.
    Maybe the same mainstreaming will happen with stripping , if its not already, with suburbia purchasing Carmen Electra strip tease videos, and people who have no intention of dancing in clubs taking pole fitness classes and buying portable stripper poles.

    XO
    Last edited by pnotitia; 03-11-2008 at 07:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    342
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    I've noticed that burlesque has made a comeback along the same timeline that stripping has become sleazier. When I first started stripping in 1994 it was quite innocent, a place between burlesque and what stripping is now. No one outside of major cities was talking about burlesque, but now stripping has changed so much, and its making a comeback.

    Honestly, I miss that in between place. I enjoy watching burlesque, but it doesn't appeal to me as something I'd want to do. Yet stripping does. But not quite as close as it's become! I feel like there's an archetypal stripper inside me that I just can't shake. Burlesque is a grandmother, stripping today is a wild daughter, and neither one fits my longing exactly.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    I appreciate all this! I've gotten responses in a lot of different venues but I'm not surprised to find SWs giving some of the answers I'm most comfortable with.
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  18. #18
    God/dess Polekitten's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Uk
    Posts
    2,222
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Hi Jo, I'm stripping at the moment to pay the bills and have been doing so for about 5 years but am also a burlesque dancer and am currently starting up my own burlesque comapany.

    Firstly the original meaning for the term "burlesque" has little to do with stripping or nudity. Burlesque started in the UK as a form of theatrical entertainment for the working classes. It consisted of short skits of satrirical comedy, poking fun at the upper classes and aristocracy. Although the bawdy aspect of burlesque did exsist in Britain, it did not become its main focus until the genre was taken to America. In my shows I have burlesque performers who never remove a stitch of clothing and they are still great entertainers and they're act is still classified as burlesque. Burlesque acts can be anything from classic striptease to modern dance to theatrical mini-dramas to comedic mayhem.

    Nowadays burlesque is thought to be all about stripping, but the difference between a "stripper" and a burlesque dancer is burlesque is all about the tease where as stripping is all about the nudity. Burlesque is about glamour, and decadence, some of the costumes burlesque dances wear cost thousands and are decekd out in feathers, jewls, velvet and all sorts of luxuary fabric. Burlesque is as much about the clothes you have on as the clothes you are taking off.

    Another difference is the audience. The main audience in a strip club is usually hetrosexual men. I know that this isn't always the case but I think its safe to say that this is the market they are aimed to and that is what makes up the vast majority of the audience. The audience at a burlesque show will be much more varied. More often than not, the women in a burlesque audience will outweigh the men. Burlesque appeals to people of all ages, men, women, gay, straight, 18-80!



    "I don't take a piss without getting paid for it." - Harlan Ellison

    Life is movement, movement is life.
    To live is to move, to move is to be alive.
    - Mirka Knaster


    Quote Originally Posted by pixierocksonthepole View Post
    "tampons are proof that God exsists."

  19. #19
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    1,864
    Thanks
    83
    Thanked 457 Times in 287 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    well, i used to like burlesque. and now i don't. in fact, i kinda hate it.

    once upon a time burlesque, as polekitten described, has been turned into some sort of "classy" thing that people appreciate on an intellectual and artistic level. you see people who'd never be caught dead in a real strip club gushing over the retro hipness of burlesque, people who wouldn't buy modern porn but think that old shots of bettie page are somehow classy...

    once upon a time that stuff was dirty. it was plenty undignified. a show was not a place to bring a lady for the evening, let alone a place for her to wish to perform.

    i don't like people denying their naughty, nasty little natures. i don't like how something dirty and raw is turned into performance art. people need to embrace sex for what it is, not try to clean it up and package it for mass consumption.

    and frankly, there's nothing edgy or subversive about teasing or stripping for strangers, that's one thing stripping and burlesque have in common.

  20. #20
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2002
    Location
    ...hehehe... email me to ask me where i am ! (i dare you!)
    Posts
    11,486
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 127 Times in 51 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    As someone who has been trained to perform Burlesque as well as has performed it here and there yet really is a stripper as her main business... there is a huge difference.

    HUGE.

    It's already been pointed out heaps of times in this thread. I agree with the burlesque is performance/theatrical whereas stripping is a function (you could say) .... and it is even encouraged that one not do any stage dancing at all if possible when you work in a strip club.

    Since I've done both strip clubs and private parties as well as pubs ... I would say the pub shows are the closest to "burlesque" I do "stripping"-wise as such.

    I also find the audiences for burlesque and stripping to be different. Women, generally are more accepting and open to burlesque performances these-days whereas they will easily "degrade" the strippers in a strip club (and/or private party and/or pub) with their comments.

    Hmm... Another difference between burlesque and stripping... is that Burlesque is broader than just "stripping"... I've known of plenty of burlesque performances where only the gloves or some other "minor" piece of clothing is removed.. and that's it... as well as the fact that it can (and often times does) incorporate a lot of "circus" skills.

    This is where the theatrical nature of burlesque comes into play in re the linking with those who have some or any skills in "circus"... be it hoops, tissu, etc.

    Then there is the money side of the equation: very VERY few burlesque dancers (this includes boyesque - male burlesque dancers) make any profit from what they do... usually a burlesque dancer spends more on their outfit(s) than they end up "earning" more often than not.. plus burlesque seems to be also more community minded in that a lot of burlesque performances (and thus the performers themselves) will offer their services for free as part of a fundraiser/charity.

    It's just my experience.

    Stripping (or adult erotic entertainment) is more gratuitous ... it is about the nudity, the sex (or illusion there-of) in the end. Even with pub shows and private party showgirl work... the whole point of being paid for those shows is the nudity, the raunch, the erotic aspect.

    Burlesque is not. Even when a performer "strips" down to pasties and panties... they are still not as raunchy with the whole show. It isn't about the sex, it is about the sensuality, the theatrics, the performance.. the implied nudity if there is any nudity at all.. the tease, the flirt.


    ...and at no point is one "better" than the other !!! Apples and oranges in the end. Both a fruit yet two different fruits...


    enter: E3167322D9 for your 10% discount

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    She Sells Sanctuary, I've seen burlesque shows, performances and attitudes that both confirm and contradict what you say. GoldCoastGirl, the same.
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  22. #22
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Here's an article about the event:

    http://media.www.nyunews.com/media/s...-3279872.shtml

    I spent MOST of my time talking about having been a strip joint stripper for 15 years; about how even though it should roll off my back when people explain the differences between burlesque and stripping by saying strip joints suck it still infuriates me; and at the end I did both a burlesquey glove peel and a full-on strip joint lap dance to show the different ways performers present themselves. And there's no mention of me as a strip joint stripper or strip joint advocate whatsoever.

    And "Boobs" doesn't go in quotes! Boobs is boobs.

    Ah, press.
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  23. #23
    cameron_keys
    Guest

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Current stripper here.

    I saw one semi burlesque show in Vegas. There IS a differnence. Burlesque as many have said is ALL about the show...not personal interactions with the customers. You go on stage..perform your show and thats it. Theres no contact whatsoever with the customers..much like a Vegas Showgirl.

    Burlesque take a great deal of training and expense,while strippers can go up,sway ona pole in a wal mart bikini and make their money,whether they have talent or not.(even though many of us put a lot of time and effort into our stage shows)
    You cant just walk into a Burlesque show and wander on stage with no talent or training.

    That said..they do have elements that are similar.Even the famous Dita has said that she considers herself a Burlesque Queen AND a stripper.

    Putting other parts of the industry down because it isnt something you PERSONALLY would do is just catty and bitchy. Strippers take nothing away from Burlesque. There arent "regular" strippers wandering on stage and swinging around a pole or giving lap dances to the customers.

    Burlesque,IMO is more about the art and less about the money,since most Burlesque dancers dont make much after expenses for costumes and props and training and such are deducted. They do it because they love the art form

    there are still a few of us who consider exotic dancing an art form...but the majority do not anymore. And few of us would bother doing it at all if it were not for the money.

  24. #24
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    8,031
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 143 Times in 42 Posts

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Oh, Jo, it's a college paper. I mean, I'd still expect better from the NYU paper, but it's still a college paper. Did anyone else cover it?

    I think it's wonderful that you actually demonstrated differences in performance. That's awesome.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Stripping and Burlesque--Comments?

    Actually, I do expect more from a student paper! LOL

    Not too long ago there was a TERRIBLE article in Reuters that had so many errors in it, and it went all around the world and was published in all these papers and now it's history. And yeah, I contacted Reuters AND the interviewer, who interviewed me TWICE IN PERSON!!! And no response.

    http://in.reuters.com/article/entert...29753020070927

    It attributes many things to the wrong people--basically, it attributes my life's work to Peekaboo, who I love and admire but isn't doing quite the same kind of work, and attributes Lukki's lifestyle (teacher by day, performer by night) to me, among other things. Many other things. Geez!!!
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Stripping vs. Burlesque
    By luscious sadie in forum Industry Insight
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 06-03-2012, 09:32 PM
  2. post-stripping comments & my reaction
    By calliope7 in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-18-2007, 09:06 PM
  3. Newbie question about burlesque vs. stripping
    By jennilee in forum Newbie Board
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-27-2006, 03:00 PM
  4. why remove comments ?
    By in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-31-2003, 10:25 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •