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Thread: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

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    Default So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Did I miss this thread somewhere ? I actually feel pretty sick over the whole thing to be honest . Hilary should step her game up now , if she really wants the chance to run . My jaw literally fell open when I watched the pieces of Rev Wrights sermon , I find it devastating that people feel that way about things . It really says alot about Obama who I kinda liked before this , that he enjoys the mentor-ship relationship of a man who is anti America and seemingly very racist and all about conspiracy theories .......The whole situation makes me sad that someone like a Reverend would preach to a bunch of loyal followers things that are so .....crazy? for a lack of better term . Ok well I am sure this thread has already been made somewhere and I missed it , I did not put this is Political Poo because its not just Political , this is social and moral too .
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    R we serisous here ?? No one is talking about this !!!!
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    I think most people realize that your friends, mates and yes, even mentors can say whatever they like and it may be in total opposition to what you think.
    Last edited by Optimist; 03-15-2008 at 09:07 PM.
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    uh no to that I strongly disagree .......Do you really think that ? So you would be very close to someone who was a racist or someone like a terrorist whos anti American ? Persoanlly I respect myself more than that ....this is a little off topic since we are talking about the man who wants to be our president here ......
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    I think most people realize that your friends, mates, and yes, even mentors can say whatever they like and it may be in total opposition to what you think. I have had friends who were racist, lovers who were sexist, relatives whom I love dearly who are homophobic. These people have taught me a lot in life but we most certainly are not in agreement! How would you begin to judge a parishioner by what their reverend decides to pop off about? It's like judging a student by what their prof decides to pop off about or judge a child on what a parent pops off about.

    EVERYBODY has their hangups. Except you of course. So absolutely, yes I have been friends with homophobes, racists, and women/men haters. Sometimes they listen to reason and sometimes they don't. Teachers/mentors are human beings who think whatever they like about a million subjects. You may agree on 999,999 but not that last one. It's up to you if you want to chuck them over that last one. Do what you feel!

    I understand it's a matter of self esteem for you. In my mind it's a matter of pragmatism. Once I'd talk myself silly trying to change people's hangups, now I pick my battles and recognize sometimes I gotta take the good with the bad.
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindi View Post
    uh no to that I strongly disagree .......Do you really think that ? So you would be very close to someone who was a racist or someone like a terrorist whos anti American ? Persoanlly I respect myself more than that ....this is a little off topic since we are talking about the man who wants to be our president here ......
    I missed two parts of your response. I would not be comfortable being close to a terrorist. Last time I looked Obama is a Senator not a terrorist and his Reverend is a religious leader not a terrorist. We definitely weren't talking about the man who wants to be our president. I was talking about the reality that teachers are just people and you'll never agree with everything they think.
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindi View Post
    uh no to that I strongly disagree .......Do you really think that ? So you would be very close to someone who was a racist or someone like a terrorist whos anti American ? Persoanlly I respect myself more than that ....this is a little off topic since we are talking about the man who wants to be our president here ......
    And who does Hillary hang around with, oh so upstanding people?? Like her Husband... I don't even know why I'm posting here... this deserves no credence...

    I'm also curiousl about what this guy said that was racist?? Because Hillary's husband and staff members both made remarks about Obama's race...

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindi View Post
    So you would be very close to someone who was a racist or someone like a terrorist whos anti American ? Persoanlly I respect myself more than that ....this is a little off topic since we are talking about the man who wants to be our president here ......
    Um, our current President and his father (another President) before him have been close to the Bin Ladens of Saudi Arabia for over 2 decades. In fact--oh, never mind...

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    I think most people realize that your friends, mates, and yes, even mentors can say whatever they like and it may be in total opposition to what you think. I have had friends who were racist, lovers who were sexist, relatives whom I love dearly who are homophobic. These people have taught me a lot in life but we most certainly are not in agreement! How would you begin to judge a parishioner by what their reverend decides to pop off about? It's like judging a student by what their prof decides to pop off about or judge a child on what a parent pops off about.

    EVERYBODY has their hangups. Except you of course. So absolutely, yes I have been friends with homophobes, racists, and women/men haters. Sometimes they listen to reason and sometimes they don't. Teachers/mentors are human beings who think whatever they like about a million subjects. You may agree on 999,999 but not that last one. It's up to you if you want to chuck them over that last one. Do what you feel!

    I understand it's a matter of self esteem for you. In my mind it's a matter of pragmatism. Once I'd talk myself silly trying to change people's hangups, now I pick my battles and recognize sometimes I gotta take the good with the bad.

    Well said , I completely see your point . I dont dislike Obama AT ALL , I do feel sick that Rev Wright feels this way and preaches about it to people who look up to him though . I think that if you chose to take a position of power you have to be very CLEAR as to what and who you take sides with . I dont really like any of the candidates all out , I was just wondering what everyone was thinking . Your first post came off very angry , this one was much better .
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    And who does Hillary hang around with, oh so upstanding people?? Like her Husband... I don't even know why I'm posting here... this deserves no credence...

    I'm also curiousl about what this guy said that was racist?? Because Hillary's husband and staff members both made remarks about Obama's race...

    I never said that anyone was better than the other . I am not slamming Obama and I am certainly not choosing him over Hilary either so I dont really know how to respond to this . I just think that Wright is not a good person and certainly not someone I want whispering in my presidents ear .
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    My mom's church is led by a pastor who is mildly irritating and runs the church counter to how most of the congregation wants it run. He never says anything mildly questionable, but the congregation wants him gone, and they are reasonable people. If Jeremiah Wright led her church, he'd be tarred and feathered.

    Obama has joined, participated in, and financially supported a church led by Jeremiah Wright. He was married by this man, had his kids baptized by him, and has admitted to receiving counsel from him.

    That has GOT to make you question his judgment. I know a lot of people like Obama...he's hard not to like...but if Jeremiah Wright is the kind of man that Obama chooses to associate himself with, then his judgment has to be called into question. If you don't, you're putting on blinders.

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Budai View Post
    Um, our current President and his father (another President) before him have been close to the Bin Ladens of Saudi Arabia for over 2 decades. In fact--oh, never mind...

    Yeah and they (bush family) are awful people who have used our country to further their own needs , thus in my opinion bringing it to the point of ruin . From what I understand about the Bin Laden family is that they are mostly decent citizens and have nothing to do with Osama so ......yeah .
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde View Post
    My mom's church is led by a pastor who is mildly irritating and runs the church counter to how most of the congregation wants it run. He never says anything mildly questionable, but the congregation wants him gone, and they are reasonable people. If Jeremiah Wright led her church, he'd be tarred and feathered.

    Obama has joined, participated in, and financially supported a church led by Jeremiah Wright. He was married by this man, had his kids baptized by him, and has admitted to receiving counsel from him.

    That has GOT to make you question his judgment. I know a lot of people like Obama...he's hard not to like...but if Jeremiah Wright is the kind of man that Obama chooses to associate himself with, then his judgment has to be called into question. If you don't, you're putting on blinders.
    OMG for a moment I thought I was completely alone in this thought . I like that Obama is young and idealistic , reminds me of both the Kennedy brothers . Two great men who speeches can bring me to tears . I like Hillary because she reminds us of the Clinton years and say what you want about him now but things were good during his rein . McCain scares me , he actually said that this war going on right now could (ahem , would) go on for 50 more yrs ..........so now I feel like I dont have anyone to vote for , again
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Admittedly, I'm a little out of the loop right now, but I just googled ol' Wright and so far I'm down with everything I'm seeing except maybe the association with shyster Farrakhan...?

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    From what I understand, Rev. Wright said that The Man -- ie. America -- makes life hard for the black man, jails the black man, etc etc. Well, I think he's right. It's true black people get screwed here, and yes, damn The Man for that.

    As Rolling Stone wrote about Obama: "Obama's life story is a splicing of two different roles, and two different ways of thinking about America's. One is that of the consummate insider, someone who has been raised believing that he will help to lead America, who believes in this country's capacity for acts of outstanding virtue. The other is that of a black man who feels very deeply that this country's exercise of its great inherited wealth and power has been grossly unjust. This tension runs through his life; Obama is at once an insider and an outsider, a bomb thrower and the class president. "I'm somebody who believes in this country and its institutions," he tells me. "But I often think they're broken."

    Why should Obama take heat from listening to a man who points out that this country is flawed? I'd rather have a leader who wants to fix our problems than a leader who wants to pretend there aren't any.

    Secondly, my understanding is Rev. Wright condemned Israel for oppressing the Palestinians. It's so fucking annoying that anytime anyone criticizes Israel's foreign policy, its conflated with being antiSemitic. Well that's bullshit. I think the Rev. is correct on both counts.

    And btw, before anybody goes at me about the Jew comment, my family is Jewish.

    Lets have a look at what Rev. Wright's about. Here's an excerpt from the Rolling Stone article:

    "The Trinity United Church of Christ, the church that Barack Obama attends in Chicago, is at once vast and unprepossessing, a big structure a couple of blocks from the projects, in the long open sore of a ghetto on the city's far South Side. The church is a leftover vision from the Sixties of what a black nationalist future might look like. There's the testifying fervor of the black church, the Afrocentric Bible readings, even the odd dashiki. And there is the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, a sprawling, profane bear of a preacher, a kind of black ministerial institution, with his own radio shows and guest preaching gigs across the country. Wright takes the pulpit here one Sunday and solemnly, sonorously declares that he will recite 10 essential facts about the United States. 'Fact number one: We've got more black men in prison than there are in college,' he intones. 'Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!' There is thumping applause; Wright has a cadence and power that make Obama sound like John Kerry. Now the reverend begins to preach. 'We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. ... We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. ... We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. ... We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!" The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: 'And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS SHIT!"

    The full Rolling Stone story, called The Radical Roots of Barack Obama, is here:
    Last edited by BrodieLux; 03-16-2008 at 02:54 AM.
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Also, I think it's a major shame that people seem to want Obama to distance himself from his Muslim background (his birth father was Muslim). Anyone who equates Islam with terrorism is painfully ignorant, and that's just so sad.
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Brodie, Wright has said much more that should disturb any reasonable person...

    On the US govt-
    "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people."

    "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

    He has also said that the US deserves what happened on 9/11 because of our history of the treatment of black people.

    He also visited Libya with Louis Farrakhan in the 80s when Moammar Khadafy was doing his lunatic fringe thing.

    He has said US support for Israel is a form of white racism.

    He routinely rails against "rich white men" that control the country and whose primary goal is to keep black America down.

    There is much more than a pastor who is fighting against what he perceives as institutional racism. This is a nut job who thinks EVERYTHING is about race.

    Barack Obama wrote a book based on one of this man's sermons.

    If you don't question his judgment on this, then you're putting on blinders.

    I'm not even saying you should drop your support, but at least look more deeply into the whole thing before you dismiss it.

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    You should have seen the church's "About Us" page before they changed it. Itwas horrific. It's somewhat better now, although I'm positive the congregation's thoughts and feelings have not changed. They've only made themselves to appear more "politically correct"

    http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

    I've been irritated about this for about a year. I've been even more horrified that no one in the media has seemed to care. Why now? The sermon clips that are springing up are tame compared to a year ago.

    And what's disgusting to me is that Mr Obama has said in the past how important Mr Wright is to him, a mentor, etc. Only recently has he tried to part from him a bit. It's BS.






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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by BrodieLux View Post
    From what I understand, Rev. Wright said that The Man -- ie. America -- makes life hard for the black man, jails the black man, etc etc. Well, I think he's right. It's true black people get screwed here, and yes, damn The Man for that.
    I'm sorry. Is this 1958? Because the calendar on my laptop tells me that was about 50 years ago. Reading some of the internet rhetoric it gets a little confusing at times.

    What you have described is a gross oversimplification of Wright's statements, most of which range from irrational to downright insane.

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindi View Post
    I never said that anyone was better than the other . I am not slamming Obama and I am certainly not choosing him over Hilary either so I dont really know how to respond to this . I just think that Wright is not a good person and certainly not someone I want whispering in my presidents ear .
    "Hilary should step her game up now , if she really wants the chance to run"

    "It really says alot about Obama who I kinda liked before this"

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde View Post
    Brodie, Wright has said much more that should disturb any reasonable person...

    On the US govt-
    "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people."

    "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

    He has also said that the US deserves what happened on 9/11 because of our history of the treatment of black people.

    He also visited Libya with Louis Farrakhan in the 80s when Moammar Khadafy was doing his lunatic fringe thing.

    He has said US support for Israel is a form of white racism.

    He routinely rails against "rich white men" that control the country and whose primary goal is to keep black America down.

    There is much more than a pastor who is fighting against what he perceives as institutional racism. This is a nut job who thinks EVERYTHING is about race.

    Barack Obama wrote a book based on one of this man's sermons.

    If you don't question his judgment on this, then you're putting on blinders.

    I'm not even saying you should drop your support, but at least look more deeply into the whole thing before you dismiss it.
    Aside from the HIV comment and the associate with Farrakhan, I'm not really sure what is so bad in those statments... Sure I disagree with most of them, but those are some pretty common sentiments in certain circles...

    He's nuts because he thinks everything is about race?? Race is a huge issue in our country, it impacts almost everything... It's been one of the hottest topics in the current presidential race... If you can't see that, the YOU'RE putting blinders on...

    The man was a spiritual leader who Obama obviously does not agree with on multiple points...

    I know a pastor, not mine but at a church I attended once or twice with a friend, apparently everyone liked him, he'd been there forever gave lots of people solid counsel did lots of good work... Turned out the guy used to molest kids a long time ago, I beleive my friend told me he's now in prison... People can have more than one side, and that is especially true with a religious leader...

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Thanks for the Wiki on Wright, Hyde.

    I gotta say, Wright is far from the first person to suggest we have been lied to about AIDS, 9/11, and Israel and he is certainly not the only person who believes that the CIA trafficks drugs or that we imprison more of our population than any other industrialized nation.

    Hmmm...cally me kooky, but...

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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    "Hilary should step her game up now , if she really wants the chance to run"

    "It really says alot about Obama who I kinda liked before this"

    LMAO , why do you think putting my quotes up is making a point ?? Obama is not looking so good in the press and from I understand Hil was losing to him , there fore if she wants to win "strike while the iron is hot" so to speak ....that says NOTHING about my opinions as to whom I prefer .

    Who you chose to associate with does say alot about you .

    Can I just say that I do not like ANY of candidates NOW or before this crap started ......so anyone attacking me personally is wasting time . My whole point was that the way Rev Wright feels makes me sad . I am one of those white people that really truly does not feel racist , I was raised that way and I dont see color until its thrown in to my face . I remember when Dirty Dancing came out and my mom mentioned aout them characters being Jewish and I was like HOW do you know ??? I had not idea that being Jewish may give you certain characteristic ......I thought the Guatemalan family that moved n across the street when I was 5 was black , I still dont care ......I have a lovely Bosnian girl over my house today using the computer , I helped her father out ....the only reason I know what nationality they are is because they felt the need to tell me .....I dont care , it doesnt matter .

    My point is that when people are angry like Rev Wright it makes me sad , he is very angry and most of what I heard I know in my heart to be false . Sometimes for people who are angry its easier to blame other people and never look at yourself , sometime the simplest explanation is the right one .


    I know there are alot of you that will read that and think I am full of crap but thats not really my problem and its why I dont hang out with Angry people .
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    I hadn't heard Wright's HIV comment, and it does sound silly. But then again, he could be right. Afterall, the U.S. government really *did* do that to black people with syphilis, aka the Tuskegee Experiment.

    I don't want to believe that 9/11 was an inside job, but it's not that big a stretch if it's true. FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and let it happen. And I saw with my own eyes how the Bush administration siezed upon 9/11 as an opportunity to increase its domestic spying power, launch two wars and sieze Iraqi oil. (See Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine")


    I think it's good that Obama lends an ear to people concerned about the potentially malicious implications of power. I'm sick of leaders who embody the realization of that potential.

    Also, I don't think it's fair to say that because Obama is close to this pastor, he necessarily holds the same views. It would be ridiculous if that logic were applied to me. My father, for example, believes that America and Israel should nuke Iran and Palestine. Well, I find that completely unacceptable, a disgusting inability to acknowledge the humanity of others. But he's still my dad, and I love him, and I take life advice from him.
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    Default Re: So r we talking about Obama and Rev Wright yet ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindi View Post
    It really says alot about Obama who I kinda liked before this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sindi View Post
    Can I just say that I do not like ANY of candidates NOW or before this crap started ......
    I think that pretty much sums it up for me... If you don't like any of the candidates (hah) and you aren't trying to bash Obama or support Hillary , then why in the hell did you post this?

    If it was really for social and moral reasons, then why did you even mention this guys connection to Obama?? Why not just talk about him...

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