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Thread: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

  1. #1
    beauty21queen
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    Default Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    They suck

  2. #2
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Thats BS. If you love your kids you do EVERYTHING in your power to help them.EVERYTHING. She says she has nothing against doctors....why the HELL couldnt they have prayed WHILE she was seen by medical professionals???

  3. #3
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies



    I hate them.

  4. #4
    beauty21queen
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    ^So do I

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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    That reminds me of Jehovah Witnesses stance on blood transfusions. They'd rather die than get blood because they believe that blood is sacred to god. I remember hearing about a little boy who died because of that and people were all proud of him. It's sick.
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    Thats BS. If you love your kids you do EVERYTHING in your power to help them.EVERYTHING. She says she has nothing against doctors....why the HELL couldnt they have prayed WHILE she was seen by medical professionals???
    Yup. I was about to say, pray while she's in the hospital.

  7. #7
    High_Heel_Lover
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    It is because eternal life is the true beauty of being here on earth, this life doesn't matter, this is the logic of these fucking religious nuts.

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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    fucking bible thumpers when will they learn.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member LiveFree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    so irresponsible

    well said kaia

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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    I'm a nursing student, and I occasionally run into people whose stupid blind faith makes them think that the lord will provide. Some nurses will use the line, "Maybe God sent us to help your kid." Also, it absolutely disgusts me how many of these biblethumpers are on some kind of federal aid or are in housing projects. I'm not dissing welfare recipients, but did the lord provide that? Hell no.

    These people need to be shot. Okay, if an adult wants to eschew medical treatment and rely on prayer, fine. They are legal adults who will be responsible for their actions. However, children have no voice and lack judgment.
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    yeah, I saw this..idiots...

    You know, these fucking shitheads sit there praying for a miracle...and we can now provide all sorts of drugs and treatments for this kind of thing...

    THAT is the fucking miracle, you child-killing morons.

  12. #12
    Featured Member DJ Machismo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Well honestly, if someone wants to choose prayer over medicine for their own body, that's fine by me.

    However, making that choice for someone is forcing your ideals/ethics/morals/religion/what-have-you onto them and is flat out just not cool. I don't care if they are your kid, let them choose for themselves.
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    I hope they pray to "God" that they don't go to Hell.

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    Veteran Member alessandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Like Hatshepsut, I'm also a nursing student and have come across people like this.
    It's horrible to see adults consciously choosing to sacrifice their children for their personal beliefs.

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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    That's terrible.
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    This is blatant CHILD ABUSE !

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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    these are people who refused to attend any established Christian churches in their area (who would have intervened, since even faith-healer Christians go to doctors) and despite having doctors for friends, refused to even mention the child's health to them. they're no more representative of religious folks than the vegan couple who starved their kid to death represents all vegans.

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    Featured Member AmazingKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    To crazy parents like that I ask hasn't God given the Doctors the knowledge to help save the girls life? Science is a miracle too.

  19. #19
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Not the first time it's happened. Won't be the last. And it's not just wacked-out Christians, either.

    Wouldn't be surprised if they're prosecuted for child abuse. If so, it's not the first time. Won't be the last.

  20. #20
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Reminds me of a joke..well..its meant to be a joke,but is far too true sometimes...

    A man is caught in a flood and climbs to the roof of his house to escape the rising water.
    A cpl in a rowboat comes by and says "jump in the boat...We'll carry you to safety"
    The man says "no thank you..the lord will save me"
    The water rises further...
    A powerboat moters by...the people in say "jump into the boat..we'll carry you to safety"
    The man says "no thank you..the lord will save me"
    The water rises further..the man climbs to the top of his chimney to escape it
    A helicopter hovers above. A soldier hangs a ladder out and says "climb up the ladder..we'll carry you to safety"
    The man says "no thank you..the lord will save me"
    The water rises and the man drowns.
    At the Pearly Gates he confronts the Lord...My Savior..why didnt you save me? I believed in you??
    At which point God says "I sent you 2 boats and a helicopter..what more did you want????"

    The lord helps those who HELP THEMSELVES.

    Of course..the BIble says otherwise:

    Jer 17:5 (NIV) This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD."

    Prov 28:26 (NIV) He who trusts in himself is a fool...

    Psalms 118:8-9 “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.”

  21. #21
    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Cameron:

    I used the same anecdote once, only I used the setting with Hurricane Katrine, an evacuation bus, a boat, and a helicopter. That is really good for putting things in perspective!
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    Veteran Member boxingdoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    I try to be open to all viewpoints, but these so-called parents sicken me and I hope their god metes out all the torture upon them that they gave to their child.

    These people tortured their daughter for weeks. She would have been severely dehydrated, short of breath, vomiting, and have severe abdominal pain before she lapsed into confusion and finally coma. New onset diabetes and dka is not a quick process and it did not happen in just a couple of days as this child's parents are claiming. They purposely hid out...did you notice in one of the 911 calls, the family member states they had been trying to get her to a doctor for a week? They purposely hid out, because they knew their medical decision making powers would have been immediately terminated. This is supported by both US courts and the American Academy of Pediatrics.



    Part of the AAP's policy statement on bioethics:

    Committee on Bioethics. Religious objectives to medical care. Pediatrics. 1997;99:279–281. Available at: http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/ pediatrics;99/2/279. Reaffirmed October 2006. Summary and comment by Mark R. Mercurio, MD, MA.

    Summary of Policy Statement
    In this statement, the Committee on Bioethics, speaking for the AAP, addresses parental decisions not to seek or accept medical care for their children based on religious objections. The major role that religion plays in the lives of many adults and children in the United States is recognized, and the need for the pediatrician to be sensitive to and have respect for religious tradition is acknowledged. However, the AAP "believes that all children deserve effective medical treatment that is likely to prevent substantial harm or suffering or death," despite religious objections that the parents may hold. If efforts at collaborative decision-making with parents are not successful in getting their approval for appropriate medical treatment in such cases, a court order ultimately should be sought. If the child's life is in imminent danger, the physician should intervene over parental objections.

    The AAP's position is consistent with that of the United States Supreme Court. As the AAP notes: "Constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion do not permit children to be harmed through religious practices, nor do they allow religion to be a valid legal defense when an individual harms or neglects a child." (1) The AAP opposes exemption, based on religion, from child abuse and neglect laws when children are not provided necessary medical care. Failure to seek medical care when a child is seriously ill should be considered child neglect, regardless of the motivation. Laws that would allow an exemption on religious grounds should be opposed or repealed.

    In the area of preventive care, a somewhat less forceful stance is taken. Although the AAP strongly endorses universal immunization, for example, it "does not support the stringent application of medical neglect laws" when children do not receive those immunizations due to parental refusal.

    Comment
    An ethical justification for the AAP position on this matter could be presented as a rights-based argument. Every child, it could be argued, has a right to medical care that is "likely to prevent substantial harm or suffering or death." The child's right creates obligations for the parents, the physician, and society. The parents are obligated to bring the child for the needed treatment, which, in the opinion of the AAP, cannot be limited to prayer or other spiritual practices alone but should include appropriate medical care.

    The physician's responsibility is either to provide the necessary treatment if able or to attempt to procure appropriate medical treatment for the child. The policy states that the physician may withdraw from these cases if continuing would violate his or her own moral precepts, "after securing acceptable alternative care." However, a practitioner willing to withhold medical treatment likely to prevent substantial harm would not seem to qualify as a provider of "acceptable alternative medical care."

    Society is obligated to facilitate the provision of the needed treatment to the child, including passing and enforcing laws that support necessary treatment of children despite parental religious objections. However, it could be argued, and rightly so, that society also is obligated to protect religious freedom. The courts often are asked to evaluate this tension between the parental right to religious freedom (for themselves and their children) and the child's right to necessary medical care. In general, the courts have taken the position proffered by the AAP: If the treatment in question is "likely to prevent substantial harm or suffering or death," the child's right to treatment outweighs the parental right to religious freedom. This viewpoint is not intended to ignore the parents’ right to religious freedom, but rather to recognize another right that should be given priority. The choice of words within the AAP policy suggests, however, that if prevention of substantial harm is possible but perhaps not likely, the imperative to overrule parental objection to treatment may be less certain. Again, the courts often have held this position.

    The policy alludes briefly to the concept of the mature minor, including a recognition that as children grow into adolescence, many have an increasing ability to contribute to or make their own medical decisions. In a previous statement, the Committee on Bioethics opined that "as children develop, they should gradually become the primary guardians of personal health ... assuming responsibility from their parents." (2) Based on that understanding, the policy at issue here states, "in selected cases, disputes may be avoided when a minor has the capacity to make an independent decision in light of religious values and recommended medical therapy." The pediatrician, indeed, may perceive less dispute, and the right path may seem clearer, when a mature minor requests a recommended treatment that his or her parents seek to refuse on his or her behalf. However, what if the mature minor refuses a lifesaving treatment, in accord with his or her parents, based on religious objections? It is not clear what the AAP would recommend in such a case.

    A competent adult's right to refuse treatment on religious grounds is recognized widely. It is somewhat unclear exactly when that right obtains, particularly if we believe that the development of decision-making capacity is a gradual process. It seems reasonable to suggest, nevertheless, that an individual's right to refuse medical treatment on religious grounds should be recognized at the same time as his or her right to refuse on any other basis.

    1. Walker v Superior Court, 763 P2d 852, 860 (Calif 198, cert denied. 1989; 491 US 905

    2. Committee on Bioethics. American Academy of Pediatrics. Informed consent, parental permission, and assent in pediatric practice. Pediatrics. 1995;95:314–317

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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    What a sad story, that poor poor wee girl



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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    Reminds me of a joke..well..its meant to be a joke,but is far too true sometimes...

    A man is caught in a flood and climbs to the roof of his house to escape the rising water.
    A cpl in a rowboat comes by and says "jump in the boat...We'll carry you to safety"
    The man says "no thank you..the lord will save me"
    The water rises further...
    A powerboat moters by...the people in say "jump into the boat..we'll carry you to safety"
    The man says "no thank you..the lord will save me"
    The water rises further..the man climbs to the top of his chimney to escape it
    A helicopter hovers above. A soldier hangs a ladder out and says "climb up the ladder..we'll carry you to safety"
    The man says "no thank you..the lord will save me"
    The water rises and the man drowns.
    At the Pearly Gates he confronts the Lord...My Savior..why didnt you save me? I believed in you??
    At which point God says "I sent you 2 boats and a helicopter..what more did you want????"

    The lord helps those who HELP THEMSELVES.

    Of course..the BIble says otherwise:

    Jer 17:5 (NIV) This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD."

    Prov 28:26 (NIV) He who trusts in himself is a fool...

    Psalms 118:8-9 “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.”
    I thought of that story too!! lol.

    BTW those quotes from the Bible wouldnt be inerpreted as "dont see a doctor" by anyone who wasnt a total pyscho lol. Too bad for that little girl her parents were psycho
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

    Gotta love these people... For people that claim to love their Religion as much as these people do, I wonder if it ever occurs to them how much they hurt it...

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