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Thread: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

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    Default Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    With the cost of living rising, here in Boston there has been a gentrification "movement" for the last few years, and I sense that it will get stronger and stronger for the next few years; as more and more people look to cut costs by living near/where they work.

    That being said, do you see this happening in your city?

    Just to go over the term, it basically means that middle-class citizens moving into the city that once was considered a less desirable place to live. So that a family who would've payed 500,000 for X square footage for a house, can get the same in the city, but for 250,000. Therefore more middle-class move into the area, bringing what was once a rundown-area, up.....

    I know its a crude example...

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    In most cities in New York, there has been 'selective gentrification'. This means that, due to traffic problems, due to fuel costs etc. some 'upper middle class' people who work in/near the bigger cities have sold their 3,500 sq. ft. $500k mini-McMansion in a stylish but relatively distant suburb, and have purchased a 1,500 sq. ft. townhouse for the same $500k.

    I am told that the thinking behind these moves is that both the suburban property taxes and the fuel /energy costs to commute + heat/cool the suburban home will keep rising sharply, while the resale value of the suburban home will decline. At the same time, city property taxes were already high, and fuel / energy costs will be reduced in proportion to the closer distance and the smaller square footage.

    However, where your 'urban bargains' are concerned, in the New York cities at least, buying and moving into such a 'bargain' urban home usually means dealing with an 'insecure' neighborhood, a s#!tty school system, etc.. Thus while 'good' neighborhoods within cities have gotten better, both because of upper middle class suburbanites moving in as well as existing lower middle class residents being taxed out ( of course there weren't any working class homeowmers to start with due to the high city taxes and relatively high real estate prices), the 'not so good' neighborhoods remain 'not so good'.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Yes, in Chicago big-time. There are many neighborhoods that you couldn't pay me to live in b/c they're still very high crime, yet the housing is super expensive and the houses are getting purchased, torn down and newer bigger ones are put in their place and being sold at enormous prices. Little by little, these neighborhoods are getting "better" but I would not want to raise my future children in places like these, b/c they're still not good places to be.






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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    I thought gentrification was taking what was once a shitty area and through investments, demolition, new construction, etc. it is quickly turned into a much nicer area... Like what they did to the "Bowery" in New York.

    Am I misunderstanding something?

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    They're totally doing it to Hollywood and it's killing Hollywood. Tearing down all the rundown old stores and houses and building expensive luxury condos... it's destroying everything that made it Hollywood. It's very sad.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    I thought gentrification was taking what was once a shitty area and through investments, demolition, new construction, etc. it is quickly turned into a much nicer area... Like what they did to the "Bowery" in New York
    well, not exactly. A more apt description is taking what was once a lower middle class area and turning it into an upper middle class area. The working class areas usually get avoided like the plague ... due to mortgage approval problems, homeowner's insurance problems, bad schools, bad crime rate. Thus gentrification is an evolutionary process that occurs one house / building at a time, with private funding.

    What you were alluding to in the 'Bowery' example is a gov't program of urban renewal (a.k.a. minority removal, or at least according to the protesters) where gov't eminent domain powers plus huge sums of gov't money are employed to essentially 'wipe the slate clean' and start anew ... often in conjunction with a politically connected developer. While the end result can ultimately be similar i.e. the developer constructs upscale condos or a gated community of upscale single family houses that totally replaces the previously existing structures / residents, the process is far different.

    As to the problem of s#!tty schools, if like Chigago there is nothing available EXCEPT bad public schools, upper middle class people investing $500k in an upscale house construction can also afford private school tuition. This actually aggravates the distinction / separation between the 'classes'.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    An area out here used to be called "Stinkin Lincoln" - it was a shithole in the middle of nowhere that no one wanted to live in. Now there are homes that people paid upwards of $700K on in a new part of Lincoln called "Twelve Bridges". But those 700k homes are worth way less and the new home builders are sitting on a lot of empty investments.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well, not exactly. A more apt description is taking what was once a lower middle class area and turning it into an upper middle class area. The working class areas usually get avoided like the plague ... due to mortgage approval problems, homeowner's insurance problems, bad schools, bad crime rate. Thus gentrification is an evolutionary process that occurs one house / building at a time, with private funding.

    What you were alluding to in the 'Bowery' example is a gov't program of urban renewal (a.k.a. minority removal, or at least according to the protesters) where gov't eminent domain powers plus huge sums of gov't money are employed to essentially 'wipe the slate clean' and start anew ... often in conjunction with a politically connected developer. While the end result can ultimately be similar i.e. the developer constructs upscale condos or a gated community of upscale single family houses that totally replaces the previously existing structures / residents, the process is far different.

    As to the problem of s#!tty schools, if like Chigago there is nothing available EXCEPT bad public schools, upper middle class people investing $500k in an upscale house construction can also afford private school tuition. This actually aggravates the distinction / separation between the 'classes'.
    Well ya learn something every day, I just always heard of 'gentrification' used in that way.

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    Gypsy74
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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    yeah... north portland is turning trendy... specially mississippi neighborhood. so are parts of burnside downtown... being filled with spendy condos.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Whats happening here in Boston, is that areas of the city that used to be considered low-income areas, are now being bought by middle-class families. While Melonie is right about the school systems, the families tend to move in "block by block" and "move" the old owners out.

    I was walking in Boston the other day in an area I normally don't go to, it was a good area, and now its been cleaned-up, there are little shops on the corners now, etc. I find it ironic that after 50 years of everyone moving out of the city, it seems like alot of people are now moving back into the city.

    And because I'm a transportation geek, there I said it, I wonder how it affects other cities. NY/Boston have public transportation systems, while LA/DC are severly lacking for the size of their city.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    And because I'm a transportation geek, there I said it, I wonder how it affects other cities. NY/Boston have public transportation systems, while LA/DC are severly lacking for the size of their city.
    In cities that don't have 'usable' public transportation, the phenomenon is still taking place because reducing a 60+ mile daily round trip commute to >10 miles, and reducing a 90 minute round trip commute to 20 minutes, allows a significant savings in terms of both time and money. If the truth were known, this change in distance is what is allowing many people to trade in their big SUV's for smaller cars (i.e. 10 minutes at a time won't kill your back, and the new commute probably involves little if any driving on an interstate highway).

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Yep. Both Eugene and Springfield Oregon (neighboring cities) have experienced positive changes to their run down downtown areas.

    This has caused something of a strange reversal in that homelessness, drug use/dealing and crime rates in the 'burbs has increased due to the upscale downtown residents insisting on cleaning up those problems in their neighborhoods.


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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    I'm pretty fine with the gentrification of my area of Boston (Brookline side of Allston). At the rate Harvard is buying up land and developing (in Lower Allston, which is hardly a great neighborhood), I'll be living in some sweet company.

    Frankly, with suburbia becoming more expensive by the day (particularly due to energy prices), cities with a cosmopolitan lifestyle become more attractive to more people.
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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Yep- it's a big topic here right now. The downtown east side of Van is every large city's homeless and drug-addicted population crammed into a few city blocks, and it is a veritable phenomenon in itself (google dtes). The area is slowly being bought up by developers, and it's yet to be seen what will happen to the population there. A lot of people are being displaced, and yet most of the services (soup kitchens, needle exhanges) are still down there.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    I'm in a borough of NYC and it became extremely evident last weekend that the neighbrohood has completely gentrified. There is now a great flea market around the corner from me.

    My neighborhood was crawling with white people (hate to say it but it's the TRUTH). My neighborhood used to be promairly black/W.Indian. When I moved here it was becoming more mixed and artsy-fartsy. Now it's becoming closer to Park Slope/Brooklyn Heights which is kinda OK but, i don't want to live amongst a bunch of strollers. Plus those neighborhoods lack flavor.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Frankly, with suburbia becoming more expensive by the day (particularly due to energy prices), cities with a cosmopolitan lifestyle become more attractive to more people.
    Now it's becoming closer to Park Slope/Brooklyn Heights which is kinda OK but, i don't want to live amongst a bunch of strollers.
    well, gentrification affects the costs of living of adjacent residents too. The gentrified properties also cause assessments to rise on other properties in the neighborhood, causing property taxes and rent prices to rise. This isn't much of a factor for the 'gentry', but it can be a big factor for people already living / owning property in that neighborhood. There are also 'secondary effects', like the 'gentry' gradually causing the closure / bankruptcy of local merchants who catered to less affluent previous residents, which are replaced by merchants who cater to the 'gentry' with more upscale products and services that less affluent previous residents cannot afford ...

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Gentrification is definitely happening in Providence and it might spell trouble for the SC's. The SC's are generally located in the areas being gentrified. In the 1/2 mile radius around the largest club in town ( maybe even NE ) probably has seen well over a billion dollars in redevelopment either already done or in the works. I can see a day in the future where this club may be forced to move or find it more profitable to move. Given the trend in business, it is already way largeer than it needs to be.
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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    There are also 'secondary effects', like the 'gentry' gradually causing the closure / bankruptcy of local merchants who catered to less affluent previous residents, which are replaced by merchants who cater to the 'gentry' with more upscale products and services that less affluent previous residents cannot afford ...
    This has definitely become a problem. The neighborhood used to pride itself on great independent business that were "high-end." The products were absolutely upscale. But now we have Connecticut Muffin here (ewwwwww I hate chains) instead of high-end furniture and art stores. I think if any other chain moves in there will be an uproar in the neighborhood fortunately.

    But that is a huge factor in how Brooklyn Heights lacks flavor. It's all chains. They have 9west, MAC, Ann Taylor, Starbucks, etc. It's like a shopping mall. If my neighborhood gets like that, I'll be pissed.

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    Default Re: Gentrification.....is it happening where you live?

    It probably will get "worse". High gas prices - $4 a gallon and up will discourage automotive commuting thus creating additional incentive to live close to work. This in turn will increase demand for housing and further drive up prices as the professional and upper middle classes continues to take over neighborhoods.

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