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Thread: Drama is inevitable

  1. #1
    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Drama is inevitable

    Feel free to point me (like you need my permission, right?) for this, but the only way to "stop the drama" anywhere, not just here on SW, is to eliminate the people.

    No people, no drama.

    Of course, that also eliminates anything remotely entertaining about being part of a group of people, but, hey, can't make an omelette without breaking all the eggs, right?

    One of the problems with internet board moderation is the same problem that the Founding Fathers saw with government: to eliminate bias, or even the appearance of bias, you need to have separate people a) make the rules, b) enforce the rules, and c) judge whether the rules have been applied fairly.

    Since most boards are set up so it's the same group of people with all three powers listed above, there's going to always be an appearance of bias. It's especially glaring because most participants can see that the rules are applied unequally. It's inevitable, because the moderation is being done by people with personalities and agendas, hidden or not, and biases all their own. I'm not saying it's bad (see above, where I link the idea that what's entertaining is the differences among people - that's my view, I like people who don't think as I do). I'm saying that it's going to happen if there are human minds involved.

    Of course, this ain't no democracy, and I don't have a say. I'm a guest here, and however Pryce chooses to run his board is how he chooses to run his board.

    But I'd like to voice my opinion that drama is the reason we're all here, and pretending that only certain kinds of drama will get you booted is, at the very least, naive.
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    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Drama, schmama. It's the new buzz word.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Drama is the new black. I fucking love drama and so does everyone here! Make the most out of it. Even sex can be boring if you just lie there. Embrace the drama, throw some cayenne up in that bitch. Be the Paul Prudhomme of drama...make it thick n spicy!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    . Embrace the drama, throw some cayenne up in that bitch.
    Kat, you are in rare form today. I'm just gonna thread stalk you till I can't stop laughing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

  5. #5
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Its been a good week, but I need to clean the house, make dinner, and head to the office to process the week's paperwork, as my assistant is out sick. But my goal is to be as entertaining as possible for the next few minutes, hehe.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  6. #6
    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    SW is a dictatorship. Possibly a benevolent one, where the ultimate ruler (Pryce) has nothing but the purest intentions for his subjects... but it's still one-person rule, with a group of police to do his bidding.

    But, by and large, the people who are the subjects of this rule are generally independent-minded and unorthodox and anti-authoritarian folk. People who live their lives outside of the boundaries of "normal" society.

    And also, by and large, the type of government most of the posters on this board are used to out in the non-internets is representative democracy, where the governed have a say, however small, in the way things run. That's not possible here on SW (or any other heavily-moderated internet board).

    That being the case, I don't see there ever being a time when the dust gets to settle. I really don't. Not as long as things remain the same (free board, open to all, run by a single boss).

    Either the heavy moderation is going to run enough people off to bring the number of users down below whatever threshold was crossed to start up this drama, or people will learn to live with, and ignore, the ones who buck the system.

    Also, because I'd like Kat to post in my thread, this:

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  7. #7
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Lunarobverse,
    I was just thinking about you a moment ago, and I've come to the conclusion, that I like everything about you. And you obviously enjoy wiggling naked ladies and don't believe in that silliness that is good. You rule, and are on my team.

    I grant you access to the Garden of Kat-Allah where you will have 80 non-virgin slutty strippers to entertain you at your leisure.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  8. #8
    God/dess hockeybobby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    With all due respect Lunar, although they may provide a sort of entertainment, you can live without seeing another fist-fight, or car wreck...which is what a lot of the stuff has seemed like to me. That, or name calling. Not all drama ends with someone being banned, or quitting. I don't think the mods are squelching all drama. They're just moderating IMO.

  9. #9
    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    hockeybobby, you miss my point. You appear to be saying something about the fighting and name-calling on here, and you seem to be tying it to me and whether or not I'm being entertained. And you also state the syllogism that "moderators are moderating" - that much is clear from your statements.

    And you're taking a disapproving tone and disagreeing with me.

    The trouble is, I'm not sure what you're arguing, and I'm not sure what it has to do with my statement about the inevitability of sparks flying when humans are interacting.

    I think your post is a DH4, on the "How to Disagree" scale. You're arguing against something but it does not appear to be against my post.

    But perhaps I've misunderstood you, and I would be open to hearing you expand on your statement. I'll just be over here in the Garden of Kat-Allah. Can't keep the 80 non-virgins waiting... They get feistier.
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  10. #10
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    I like you, too, just not with the same romantic intensity as Kat.

    I'm dense. I don't get the connection between the general statement you're making and the specific instance (and presumably, critique of) that the general statement must allude to.

    FWIW, I'm not here for drama. I endure it here because I like the other stuff once the drama subsides. But maybe I'm the only one who feels that way.

  11. #11
    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    I'm dense. I don't get the connection between the general statement you're making and the specific instance (and presumably, critique of) that the general statement must allude to.
    I can't explain unless I know which specific instance you're presuming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    FWIW, I'm not here for drama. I endure it here because I like the other stuff once the drama subsides. But maybe I'm the only one who feels that way.
    I'm using the word "drama" much more broadly than it has come to mean in the hothouse environment of SW. Humans, generally, like drama - stories have been told since people invented language, and stories always involve conflict of some kind, whether it be men against the gods or Nature or each other. So a love of conflict is built-in. It simply expresses itself differently based on culture and upbringing.

    I'm always skeptical when people express a distaste for drama. I don't doubt you, Jay Zeno; but perhaps the drama you dislike is just a certain kind. Perhaps "drama" has become a label for certain kinds of behavior?

    Not all drama is violent or radical. But all drama is entertaining. And where there are people, there is always going to be drama, because it's what we do.

    The trouble is, the only tools that moderators have to enforce the rules they create are pointing and bannination, and that circumstance creates its own set of dramatic consequences. Saying "we will stop the drama with bannination" ignores the story that arises out of that act. Story creates drama.
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  12. #12
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    I can't explain unless I know which specific instance you're presuming.
    I'm not. I was hoping you'd povide the nexus.


    I'm using the word "drama" much more broadly than it has come to mean in the hothouse environment of SW. Humans, generally, like drama - stories have been told since people invented language, and stories always involve conflict of some kind, whether it be men against the gods or Nature or each other. So a love of conflict is built-in. It simply expresses itself differently based on culture and upbringing.
    Oh. Then, yeah. That's true everywhere. We like our stories. I like my family for the drama, then. I like my neighborhood for the drama, then.

    I'm always skeptical when people express a distaste for drama. I don't doubt you, Jay Zeno; but perhaps the drama you dislike is just a certain kind. Perhaps "drama" has become a label for certain kinds of behavior?
    Sure, the interaction between people that feeds on itself to build high negative emotionality.


    The trouble is, the only tools that moderators have to enforce the rules they create are pointing and bannination
    Nope, there's also warning, deleting, splitting, merging, and locking. In Blue, deleting/locking constitutes about 98% of the enforcement action.

  13. #13
    God/dess hockeybobby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    Feel free to point me (like you need my permission, right?) for this, but the only way to "stop the drama" anywhere, not just here on SW, is to eliminate the people.

    No people, no drama.

    Of course, that also eliminates anything remotely entertaining about being part of a group of people, but, hey, can't make an omelette without breaking all the eggs, right?

    One of the problems with internet board moderation is the same problem that the Founding Fathers saw with government: to eliminate bias, or even the appearance of bias, you need to have separate people a) make the rules, b) enforce the rules, and c) judge whether the rules have been applied fairly.

    Since most boards are set up so it's the same group of people with all three powers listed above, there's going to always be an appearance of bias. It's especially glaring because most participants can see that the rules are applied unequally. It's inevitable, because the moderation is being done by people with personalities and agendas, hidden or not, and biases all their own. I'm not saying it's bad (see above, where I link the idea that what's entertaining is the differences among people - that's my view, I like people who don't think as I do). I'm saying that it's going to happen if there are human minds involved.

    Of course, this ain't no democracy, and I don't have a say. I'm a guest here, and however Pryce chooses to run his board is how he chooses to run his board.

    But I'd like to voice my opinion that drama is the reason we're all here, and pretending that only certain kinds of drama will get you booted is, at the very least, naive.
    Oh, all right Lunar. *sigh*
    Your first paragraph implies that someone, somewhere wants to stop all drama, and you go on to remark that therefore all people must be eliminated.

    But who wants to stop all drama?

    My point was obvious. There are certain types of drama we can live without. This is where the moderators come in. They eliminate the not-playing-by-the-rules drama, but leave the rest.

    You go on to make a commentary on the inherent bias of moderators, and almost sorta say they make mistakes...or at least enforce a standard that you don't personally agree with. You know, you'd like to keep some of the bad drama producers around because they don't bug you that much and they're entertaining etc etc.

    Ok, that part is your opinion...

    So, to boil it down, my post said some of the drama is shit and I'm glad it gets flushed. I guess you want to keep it around. We disagree. I'm ok with that, and I know you're ok with it too.

    fuck, this is exhausting.

  14. #14
    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    hockeybobby asks "Who wants to stop the drama?"

    My answer is that Jay and Jenny and Pryce have said that they do.

    My point is that the use of their tools creates the kind of drama they are trying to stop.

    And nobody else has much power to stop it except the ability to complain. And complaining too much, or in the "wrong" way, leads mods to use their tools. Which just leads to more angst and drama.

    It all just makes me laugh because when they try to supress it, it just pops up again. Because they're making it.

    It's like screaming at a kid then wondering why they're so willful. Or punishing your staff and then wondering why they're so unproductive. It happens everywhere, not just here.

    It's a control issue. It's practically a pathology.

    Whether I agree or disagree with the policies they enforce is beside the point, really. I get no say, and if I disagree wrong, I lose access to this site, this vastly entertaining site. I tried, via PM, to offer some advice but was met with nothin' but denial of accountability.

    So might as well accept it, sit back, and laugh.
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    God/dess hockeybobby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    hockeybobby asks "Who wants to stop the drama?"
    Actually Lunar, what I asked was "who wants to stop all drama?"

  16. #16
    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Actually Lunar, what I asked was "who wants to stop all drama?"

    And if I could copy & paste I could show you. Silly iPhone.
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    And if I could copy & paste I could show you. Silly iPhone.
    Well, then let me put it to the Mods and Pryce:

    Do you wish to stop all drama?

  18. #18
    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Well, then let me put it to the Mods and Pryce:

    Do you wish to stop all drama?
    Make sure and either ask to stipulate Jay's definition of drama from this thread, or ask for a definition. Because otherwise the question is unanswerable.
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  19. #19
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Lunar - did you start this because I didn't adequately appreciate your advice this morning? You might note that what you were so worried about didn't happen. Nothing terrible occurred in that thread. A bunch of people expressed themselves (some a little more colourfully than I would have ideally preferred, but it is not, contrary to what you say, a police state) and moved on. Is that why you are down here trying to rouse up some drama?

    Drama - in terms of exciting narrative = good thing. Drama in terms of recreating a message board version of Mean Girls = bad thing. Can we absolutely control it? No. We don't control what people think, and as such there is always lag time in what they post. Does being independent minded and having a strong personality mean that you have to be an asshole? Absolutely not. That is a snowball effect - one person does it, another does it back and then everyone thinks that it is the best way to behave - the litter effect. THAT we can control at least to some degree. I actually believe something different - that most of the members here are pretty decent in and of themselves, and just require an environment that allows them to be that way. We hardly ever point people. We hardly ever ban people. On the blue side there are complaints that the girls here are too nice to each other and that isn't interesting. I think we - both as mods and as members - do pretty well.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member Lunarobverse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Too many hidden assumptions in Jenny's post for me to address with my tiny iPhone, poor thing. But you seem almost reasonable. Which is easy when you label those who disagree as "drama queens" and such.

    Fine. I'll go back to bein' quiet and flirting with my friends. Consider me "moderated".
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Lunar made the point that the mods, by doing what Pryce has asked us to do, are in fact the source of the problems not the solution to those problems. His posts are a tactical admonishment of us mods but more sobering still a strategic admonishment of Pryce. I usually don't pay much attention to posters with 6 months tenure but I am starting to feel a little fascist inside.

    I will be right back. I need to drive up to the 7-11 and pick up a six pack. I post more circumspectly with a little beer in me.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

  22. #22
    Darcy Foxx
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    *paints a target on her back*

    Please, continue to piss and moan about the people who volunteer their free time to try to ensure this board runs the way the owner wants it to. No, really. It's totally awesome to be constantly complained about and have people dislike you because you're just trying to do a thankless but necessary job. It's such a nice thing to wake up to on a sunny Saturday morning.

  23. #23
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarobverse View Post
    Too many hidden assumptions in Jenny's post for me to address with my tiny iPhone, poor thing. But you seem almost reasonable. Which is easy when you label those who disagree as "drama queens" and such.
    Dude - you may not have noticed - but everyone disagrees with me - not just here, but in my daily life. I apparently hold some unorthodox views. It's something I'm extremely used to. This is not about dismissing people who disagree with me. If nothing else - trust me, the other mods wouldn't let me. And certainly if that were the case, I wouldn't have bothered responding to your post. I have a very dismissive way of dismissing people that involves not bothering with a response.
    Fine. I'll go back to bein' quiet and flirting with my friends. Consider me "moderated".
    Except... that is something you are just making up. You haven't been pointed. You haven't been warned or censured in any way. You haven't been hushed up by me or by the other mod in this thread. I read and I answered. Is that what you mean by "Police State"?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  24. #24
    Darcy Foxx
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I read and I answered.
    you nazi!!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Drama is inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Foxx View Post
    *paints a target on her back*

    Please, continue to piss and moan about the people who volunteer their free time to try to ensure this board runs the way the owner wants it to. No, really. It's totally awesome to be constantly complained about and have people dislike you because you're just trying to do a thankless but necessary job. It's such a nice thing to wake up to on a sunny Saturday morning.
    Darcy. This is in no way asskissing, just how I feel, but hey, people'll think it's asskissing.

    I really appreciate that you mods are trying your best being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Here you have 30,000 people with you guys as the wall between them and the guy who runs the show from the backstage. You're getting all the crap, none of the rewards and all of the pain (with no pay). While sometimes I bitch and tend to be a bit of a drama-stirrer myself (which I have worked on in recent times), I do appreciate that you have to do something so very hard when you have very little choice.

    The mods are not at fault here, people. They're doing their very hard UNPAID job the best they can with hatred spewing from every corner... and while we're being dramatic little shits, we should at least not spew stuff AT them. They're already busy enough cleaning up our messes without having to have their feelings hurt and emotions fucked with each morning when they moderate a community they were voted into.

    How would you feel if you woke up every morning to an entire site saying they hated you?


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