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Thread: World questions.......

  1. #1
    ghostinpa
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    Default World questions.......

    So I was wondering some stuff and I thought I would ask.....

    If USA was going to be involved in a nuclear war do you think we would get some sort of notice? Warning? Do you think the media would say something or would it be a surprise?

    Is there anywhere really even neutral anymore?

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    Default Re: World questions.......

    The US, neutral? Ha, never.

    But I think your question really depends on the situation.
    I don't think I can say more without getting poo-ish.



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    Default Re: World questions.......

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostinpa View Post
    So I was wondering some stuff and I thought I would ask.....

    If USA was going to be involved in a nuclear war do you think we would get some sort of notice? Warning? Do you think the media would say something or would it be a surprise?

    Is there anywhere really even neutral anymore?
    You are more likely to worry yourself to death than die in a nuclear holocaust. Put it out of your mind.
    If the shit really does hit the fan, just quietly slip across the border into Canada, and sit it out in Timmins, or Sault Saint Marie.

    Nobody would nuke the stripclubs. That would be unspeakably barbaric and cruel.

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    Featured Member AmazingKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: World questions.......

    I don't anyone would be warned of impending chaos or attack. I mean, why cause mass panic? What will that do?

    We can only sit back and wait.

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    Default Re: World questions.......

    ^ Or maybe they would falsely warn of pending nuclear attack; the ensuing chaos would be the attack.

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    Default Re: World questions.......

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostinpa View Post
    So I was wondering some stuff and I thought I would ask.....

    If USA was going to be involved in a nuclear war do you think we would get some sort of notice? Warning? Do you think the media would say something or would it be a surprise?

    Is there anywhere really even neutral anymore?
    The U.S. government and military use a wide range of intelligence and surveillance methods to track the nuclear launch, delivery and range capabilities of the declared nuclear states. These include a network of highly-sophisticated surveillance and detection satellites; high-altitude aircraft flyovers; medium- to low-altitude surveillance from E-2 Hawkeye aircraft from various U.S. naval battle groups and aircraft carriers around the world; high-intensity over-the-horizon radar at multiple sites and a network of ocean-deployed sensors and ULF sonar that track the position and status of nuclear-launch-capable submarines.

    A conventional nuclear attack would be first detected by NORAD, which is the North American Air Defense Command. They already track every single thing in orbit, everything airborne or about to be, and a few other targets and objects that are not generally talked about. It's not generally known, but NORAD also shares data with Canada should it ever come under direct attack.

    There would always be warning of a conventional nuclear attack. The question is whether the President and the JCS would decide to share the news of an impending attack with the media and the public. Since the time elapsed between launch and impact is usually measured in minutes, totaling less than an hour, even for ICBMs, there is little serious preparation that could be undertaken by the public. It would more likely result in panic.

    Having said that, the government still observes the DEFCON (Defense Readiness Condition) system for official military readiness, with DEFCON 5 being the lowest readiness state and DEFCON 1 being the highest. The country has only gone as high as DEFCON 2, during the Cuban Missile Crisis. As far as I know, the U.S. has never gone to DEFCON 1. During the 9-11 attacks, DEFCON-3 was declared.

    There is also a public alert system operated by the Department of Homeland Security that ranks the risk of terrorist attack, which could include planted or distributed nuclear weapons. This is the color-coded system of pink, blue, yellow, orange and red.

    There are, of course, many formally neutral states through which the U.S. communicates with hostile regimes (Switzerland, Belgium, Japan) as well as U.N. envoys of hostile or rogue states not formally recognized by the U.S.

    If you acquire nuclear weapons, that gives you enormous destructive power, but it also makes you a target. So many nations have decided to forego nuclear armament so as to avoid being a target. I believe the only declared nuclear state to ever totally disarm is South Africa.

    The chance of a conventional nuclear attack on the U.S., even by the North Koreans, who have limited range capabilities, is extremely unlikely. A more likely outcome is a nuclear, chemical or biological attack against Israel, where the U.S. would very likely respond in defense of Israel, or an attack against South Korea by the North, where the U.S. would also respond. To the best of my knowledge, no peace treaty was ever signed between the two states and they sit at the edge of military confrontation. The other major dangerous flash point is the conflict between the PRC and Taiwan, with the former recognizing the latter as part of the PRC and the latter recognizing the former as a bunch of hotheated communist psychopaths. The U.S., incidentally, has sort of tip-toed around the issue by "recognizing" the PRC position while publicly supporting and arming Taiwan.

    I've written at length on the much more dangerous and likely scenario of a limited nuclear attack by terrorist groups in a thread on the Member Boards.

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    Featured Member AmazingKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: World questions.......

    I'm not sure why I even read threads like these. They just depress the hell out of me. Am I the only one that constantly worries over stuff like this? I guess worrying is just my nature. I know just about everything can kill us these days and worrying seems futile but I digress. It seems impossible to always stay informed too.

    I do believe limited attacks by terrorists are very highly likely. It makes me want to move the hell out of LA even faster but I'm stuck here for at least another two years.

    *stops rambling and thinks happy thoughts about pandas*

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    Featured Member BrodieLux's Avatar
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    Default Re: World questions.......

    I do not believe terrorist attacks are very likely. I also think that worrying about them is pretty much useless. If you get nuked, you'll die, and that'll be the end of it. If other people get nuked, that will suck worse for us, because we'll have to endure the horror of knowing what happened to them. Plus there's the environmental impact on an already fragile planet, which will affect us -- as in the ensuing radiation that gets tossed around the globe by the wind patterns, water supply, etc. That's how I see it anyway.

    That said, I did have a nightmare about a nuclear attack about a week ago, and I notice we've had some paranoid threads about it all of a sudden too. So, I do hope that my own prophecy doesn't come to pass.

    My worst fear is that we will see a "terrorist" attack before Jan. 1, 2009, and that it will be used to further consolidate government power, Shock Doctrine style. I could see an extended Bush term resulting, with the excuse that we'd be in a state of emergency and normal rules don't apply. I've said this for awhile now. If it happens, and terrorists are blamed, don't believe the hype. It'll be the governkment's own doing, whether indirectly (allowing it to happen) or directly (actually making it happen).

    More info on Naomi Klein's brilliant work, The Shock Doctrine
    :
    http://www.democracynow.org/2007/9/1...naomi_klein_on

    OR

    http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine.../dp/0805079831

    More info on why I think such a crazy event could really happen: www.ZeitgeistMovie.com
    (Conspiracy theory movie, and it may or may not be correct, but it's worth watching, and chilling)
    Last edited by BrodieLux; 04-24-2008 at 11:31 PM.
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    Default Re: World questions.......

    ^^^Comical Conspiracy Crap.

    TOO pretty much summed it up. No rational government would use Nuclear Weapons, no point unless you want yourself eradicated. North Korea gains nothing by destroying South Korea, except for being destroyed by U.S.
    Israel will blow anything up before it could ever be launched against them. China doesn't want Taiwan destroyed, they want it back. Nukes, never. Land invasion, maybe.

    The big worry is as TOO has pointed out before. Russia's nuclear material. They don't have the money to keep it operational, or to destroy it, let alone keep good track of it. With all the floating around, wouldn't be to hard for someone to get a hand on it.

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    Featured Member BrodieLux's Avatar
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    ^^ Did you actually watch the video before calling it crap?

    Because surely you weren't calling Naomi Klein's book "crap." It's gotten glowing reviews from economists everywhere.
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    Featured Member AmazingKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: World questions.......

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    No rational government would use Nuclear Weapons..
    The keyword here being rational.

    I think there are too many factors and unknowns to dismiss theories surrounding nuclear warfare as comical crap.

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    ^^^Referring mainly to the idea of Bush taking another term by allowing a terrorist attack, trust me that will not happen. I was also reffering to zeitgeist which is total crap.

    Don't know anything bout Naomi Klein, and wasn't referring to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingKat View Post
    The keyword here being rational.

    I think there are too many factors and unknowns to dismiss theories surrounding nuclear warfare as comical crap.
    Look at what I called comical crap.

    A government would have to be nuts to launch nukes, it means they're going to get destroyed too. Otherwise someone would have done it. Thus rational.

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    Featured Member BrodieLux's Avatar
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    ^^ Did you watch Zeitgeist before calling it crap?
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    ^^Oh yes, someone showed it to me shortly after it came out, perhaps July of '07... before it was ever popular, I watched it atleast once since, pointing out a few of the more ridiculous aspects to coworkers/friends... I thought it was crap the first time I saw it, and still do...

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    Default Re: World questions.......

    does this thread not belong in the political section hmmm sorry but i hate reading depressing stuff like this i no its a reality but especially when im on SW id rather not think about morbid subjects such as this

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    Default Re: World questions.......

    ^I agree, and I think it will probably be moved.

  18. #18
    Featured Member BrodieLux's Avatar
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    Default Re: World questions.......

    If you watched Zeitgeist then you probably recall some mention of the North American highway idea. Well, if so, then check this shit out:

    Congress Tells Bush: 'Stop the Closed-Door Diplomacy and Allow Legislative Oversight'

    WASHINGTON, April 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The House of
    Representatives sent a letter to President Bush this week advising him to stop all plans to advance the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) of North America until there has been full congressional oversight.

    The letter, which was authored by Reps. Raul M. Grijalva (D-AZ) and Marcy Kaptur (D-OH), is brief and simply states that the U.S. Congress "objects to a process that permits the executives of the respective countries to bypass constitutionally mandated review" and that all SPP negotiations should be halted until the details of this closed-door diplomacy "are made transparent and proper legislative oversight is established." The letter reached President Bush on the eve of the fourth North American summit, which will be held in New Orleans on April 21st and 22nd.



    Bush's SPP, which he first endorsed back in 2001 as a plan for
    "economic integration" with Mexico and Canada, is a possible prelude to a North American Union (NAU), similar to the European Union (EU), connected by a three-country superhighway. Last year, during the three-nation summit at Montebello, Quebec, Fox News reporter Bret Baier asked President Bush, "Can you say today that this is not a prelude to a North American Union, similar to the EU?" Instead of denying the claim, Bush ridiculed the question and said he was "amused" that anyone could believe in such a "conspiracy."



    "The major players all claim that SPP is simply 'economic integration,'but integration with Mexico and Canada is exactly what North American Union means," said Eagle Forum Executive Director Jessica Echard.



    SNIP.....

    More here: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4796286&EDATE=
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    Featured Member BrodieLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post

    Don't know anything bout Naomi Klein, and wasn't referring to it.
    The idea of the Shock Doctrine is that major changes in a society's legislative infrastructure can be achieved with least resistance during times of panic, when citizens are basically paralyzed and distracted. Things that would normally be unthinkable -- like violating the Constitution -- suddenly are possible when people are worried the sky is falling. That's my very very simplified summary.


    Klein writes, “The history of the contemporary free market was written in shocks.” She argues that “Some of the most infamous human rights violations of the past thirty-five years, which have tended to be viewed as sadistic acts carried out by anti-democratic regimes, were in fact either committed with the deliberate intent of terrorizing the public or actively harnessed to prepare the ground for the introduction of radical free-market reforms.”

    That sounds incredibly radical, and yet, the establishment has lauded her book. It's an international best seller. They've said, in essence, that she's right. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/bo...tiglitz-t.html
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    ^ I don't deny that Governments don't take advantage of situations to promote unpopular idea's. I just don't beleive that they create these situations.

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    Default Re: World questions.......

    As to the letter... So what? It basically says "hey don't make any negotiations without Congress's approval"... Any Congress person can right a letter... Look at some of the stuff Arlen Spector has said...

    ZeitGeist has some facts that are true. But they twist them into a overall message that is total crap. Like the united currency... That would be a terrible idea, it would destroy the dollar worse than it is now...

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    Default Re: World questions.......

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostinpa View Post
    So I was wondering some stuff and I thought I would ask.....

    If USA was going to be involved in a nuclear war do you think we would get some sort of notice? Warning? Do you think the media would say something or would it be a surprise?

    Is there anywhere really even neutral anymore?
    Yes, there would be warning if it is ICBMs that are launched against us. (not likely, because the only questionable nation with that kind of weapons capability is Russia, and they can't afford to blow us away.) Also, there are anti-ICBM protections in place that have proven to work pretty well. That is how that stray satellite got blown out of the sky a few months back.

    Most likely any nuclear attack would come in the form of a dirty bomb or suitcase nuke, for which there is no warning.

    Neutral nations? Switzerland.


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    Default Re: World questions.......

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    ^^^Comical Conspiracy Crap.

    TOO pretty much summed it up. No rational government would use Nuclear Weapons, no point unless you want yourself eradicated.

    The idea has been floated re: Iran recently, by the US. The Bunker buster nukes.

    I'd never accuse US law makers of being rational, though.


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