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Thread: An actual, serious question

  1. #26
    Veteran Member Fionaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: An actual, serious question

    One of the big issues, though, is that we are not employees - and the club owners are not our employers. The burden of prostitution and so on has largely shifted to us. Management is free to turn a blind eye -- as long as girls don't get the club shut down, business goes on as usual.

    We're the ones on the line. We're the disposable pieces of ass.

  2. #27
    Veteran Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Default Re: An actual, serious question

    I also think Yoda is pretty much spot-on. I don't think it's a particularly reversible trend.

    I live in a city where there are clubs where "extras" are freely available, and others where they are not. The diehard message boards and the "regulars" in the city are focused on the former, and the latter are located in more touristy areas. The majority of customers would rather have "extras" on the menu, and I think there will always be women in the industry willing to provide them for $$$.

    I can't really be sad about the trend as a customer, but I can certainly appreciate that it makes life harder for dancers and that's too bad.
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    Default Re: An actual, serious question

    Quote Originally Posted by lildreamer316 View Post

    Bottom line: This business needs to remember that at it's core; it is about ENTERTAINMENT. The sooner that they all remember this, the sooner we can ALL start making money without being groped again.

    Sorry, everyone. I will stand firm on this point. It is not out of reach, it is NOT unrecoverable, and the money is not gone from the idea of dancing without serious contact!

    The responsibility, and weight, is right where it should have always been - the owners and managers. It's time for the grownups to step up to the plate. This kind of business needs to be run by businesspeople; not just some yokel who thinks he can make a buck showing titties and serving beer. Just like everything else, it has become corporatized. This has both advantages and disadvantages. But the best one is to realize that the industry needs to be run as entertainment. It cannot continue to be run on sex; not in this widespread a way, unless the owners are committed to the repeal of anti-prostitution laws across the country and indeed, the world. That is a Herculean task that will probably not happen in our lifetime. So,the most common-sense and the most profitable course of action is to return to entertainment. Vegas has always made it work (in an general entertainment sense, not referring to the SC's specifically).

    It's a DUH moment.
    Very well said LD. It took a combination of greedy club owners, willing dancers and, of course, more than willing customers to get us into this situation of substituting sex for entertainment. The only way out is through proactive club management. I have seen it happen in my current favorite club just recently. Ownership decided that some dancers were pushing the envelope a bit too far and bringing undo heat onto the club from local officials. Now, it's not going to happen overnight. This same club has been down the same path a few times since it opened seven or eight years ago.

    Ultimately there will always be customers who are willing to pay for extras and dancers who are willing to give them. Management has to take the lead in this by creating an environment where beautiful intelligent women with personalities can earn a living without being in the minority. I have always maintained that a few discrete dirty dancers actually help keep a club busy. The problems start when the majority of girls on a shift are talentless and/or unattractive but working because they showed up that day with the required house fee and the need to pay the rent the next day.
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    Default Re: An actual, serious question

    Although I agree with the general concensus so far here's an additional take:

    There are many two dimensional sheeps in this society that tend to follow the crowd and do whatever their buddies are doing. These type of dudes really don't care much about personality or intelligence or even looks for that matter. Pure sex goes a long way with these guys. After all, that's what they get to brag to their buddies about. They are looking for the smallest waist, the biggest boobs, the prettiest face, the longest legs (and they want them wrapped around their neck preferrably), the most popular or naughtiest private dancer (and we all know what that means). Thanks to a larger dancer population than ever, the plastic surgery phenomenon, and a strong cultural mix, entertainers are looking better than ever.

    Add into the equation the fact that the value of a dollar has skyrocketed in this terrible economy we find ourselves in and that most men work longer hours than ever and much harder to obtain their wealth and it is easy to see why they are picky with their money. Furthermore, women are getting more plastic surgery than ever (nothing wrong with this, but it's a fact) making the population of strippers more "perfect" than ever. Guys are like kids in candy stores at most clubs. There are A LOT of Barbies (but not a whole lot of Ken's unfortunately!)

    If YOU were a kid in a candy store and all the candy looked pretty damn good and was the same exact price, would you pick the plain chocolate variety or would you go for the stuff with the (FREE!) filling inside?

    I do need to add that I do think there are still many intelligent and non-standard, quality men out there who go for the full package and strive to find an entertainer that they can enjoy based on cerebral and emotional connections as well as the purely physical but I have found these gentlemen to be the minority.

    Sex sells. Whoever said that had it nailed down pretty simply.

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    Default Re: An actual, serious question

    Yes. This is unfortunately true. If we all agreed to compete on the same level, then the whole experience would be much simpler but...

    My personal beef is all the rub 'n tugs which have opened up around the club. Guys know they can cross the road so there's more pressure. What bugs me is that I have a lot of pride in the art form of dancing and conversation and the whole experience (without serious groping), and when you are competing with the upfront "happy end", guys often see my less than happy end walking away.

    It's just way too common denominator for me.

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    Default Re: An actual, serious question

    Come on dude! Get real!

  7. #32
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    Default Re: An actual, serious question

    I don't know... When I look back at what was taking place in the early 90's, even the 80's [especially the early 80's] and compare it to what is going on now I think folks are mistaking when they say that what is happening in the strip-clubs is far more than was was happening then.

    The straight club scene in the very early 80's was high octane, cocaine fueled, sex in the dark corners, bathroom stalls and second floors of clubs all over NYC. The VIP rooms were practically orgies.

    No one had heard of AIDS, just some gay men's disease called GRID [Gay Related Immune Deficiency]. Both Plato's Retreats were running at full steam, as well as countless other swap houses.

    There was actually a LOT more sex taking place then. Strip-clubs were left free to be strip-clubs because of all the other actual sex venues that were available.

    The difference is that strip-clubs have become, ever more increasingly, interchangeable with brothels. In NYC I think you can thank Giuliani for a lot of that. He succeeded in closing the actual brothels but failed in closing the strip-clubs [though he tried]. That forced a small trend, dances starting to up sell extras, into the red zone as girls who were working in the brothels - now out of work - decided they were going to become strippers instead.

    A flood of "extra-girls" from those brothels descended on the strip-clubs and a slow roll became a rolling boil almost overnight.
    Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.


    BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?

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