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Thread: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

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    Default need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    I got my letter in the mail about what i need to bring to my trustee meeting for chapter 13 BR. Since im self employed i am asked to bring:

    "a balance sheet that shows the assets and liabilities of my buisness
    and
    a profit loss projection statement that supports the income that i listed on my bankruptcy petition"

    what are these?

    im so lost....

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff...

    Those are the statements that every self-employed person should have.

    However, are you self-employed? You may need to clarify that you do not own a business. Self-employed business owners would have those docs.

    You should call your local bankruptcy courthouse (they usually have pro-bono attorneys there to answer questions) and ask what you need to do.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff...

    i have a lawyer, i dont know if im considered self employed or an independant contractor in the legal documents he made up. is there much of a difference? it ried contacting him today but he isnt in the office.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff...

    ^^^

    An IC is a person who basically is a contract worker. IE you provide your services to companies on a specific basis, yet you are not TECHNICALLY an employee of said companies. By not being an employee I mean they dont have to pay taxes on you, dont pay into Social Security or what not, etc.

    It is my understanding from what you posted that basically they want a statement of how much money you make, and how much money it costs to run your business. Gas, make up, etc. I think the profit loss projection refers to a chart that would show you are basically loosing money at work, or not making enough to pay back your bills.

    That said, I don't know how to MAKE any of those charts or how to legally prove them. Contact your attorney.
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


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    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff...

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    "a balance sheet that shows the assets and liabilities of my buisness
    and
    a profit loss projection statement that supports the income that i listed on my bankruptcy petition"

    what are these?

    Accountant stuff, so i think you need to get one of them involved too. Sounds like you're saying "I'm self employed, here's how much profit I make" and they're saying "Exactly how did you come to that figure? Show us the business records, incoming and outgoing money, etc."
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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff...

    ^^^ starting out that the following comments are only the opinions of a dumb blonde with big boobs and should not be considered as legal / financial advice ...

    Chapter 13 bankruptcies revolve around the premise that the person filing for bankruptcy has insufficient net income potential to cover their current financial obligations ... such that the Judge can provide 'debt relief' for the bankruptcy filer via restructuring and reducing monthly payment amounts down to a level that the bankruptcy filer's income CAN cover, and at the same time the Juge can provide some degree of payback for the bankruptcy filer's creditors. Therefore the Judge needs to analyze in detail the person's outstanding debt and bill commitments, and balance this against the bankruptcy filer's net income potential.

    For the former, the creditors are going to provide detailed info in regard to how much money the bankruptcy filer still owes them, plus the existing payment schedules. The Judge will look to IRS or state / local databases to determine typical minimum costs of living for the bankruptcy filer's area. But the judge will need to look to the bankruptcy filer for additional info. Among this info will be ...

    - past income history, via past years tax return filings. For self-employed persons this means 1040 Schedule C's

    - present income potential, via the bankruptcy filer's income info. For an employee this means paycheck stubs. For self-employed persons this means business 'books'. In the case of a self-employed non-incorporated dancer the court is probably going to expect to see a self-generated ledger showing nights worked, income earned each night, business expenses incurred each night etc.

    - ongoing business costs usually are not relevant for a self-employed dancer. This would normally mean rent or mortgage payments on a business storefront, payments on a company owned vehicle etc. However this could also conceivably apply to business related cell phone, to gym memberships / tanning salon memberships etc. which help the dancer remain 'competitive'

    The bankruptcy judge is going to attempt to digest all of the filer's financial information, and arrive at a 'fair level' of monthly payments for the filer to make over the course of the next 5 years. This court mandated level of monthly payments will of course short-change the creditors. However, this court mandated level of monthly payments will leave the bankruptcy filer with enough income to continue making rent / food / fuel payments for the next 5 years while paying 'something' to the filer's creditors.

    What is an unknown variable in the case of dancer bankruptcy filings is how the creditors and Judge will interpret the earnings potential of the filer if the dancer only chooses to work part time. In other words, if the dancer's earnings records are based on a choice of only working 3 days a week, i.e. $600 a week in earnings based on working three club shifts, the creditors may argue that the dancer's earnings POTENTIAL is actually $1000 per week based on working 5 shifts instead of three. Thus if the Judge buys this rationale, it's possible that the bankrupt dancer may be required to work 5 shifts per week for the next 5 years as part of the court ordered 'restructuring' plan.

    There is also a potential issue of future dancer income potential falling with time. Due to the non-typical nature of exotic dancing, certain standard assuptions on the part of the Judge will not apply. For example, with just about any 'straight job' employee, the Judge can assume that their income potential will rise over time as they gain experience and seniority. However, in the exotic dancing business, a (say) 28 year old dancer filing bankruptcy with X income potential is likely to have LESS earnings potential 5 years into the court ordered payment plan as she approaches (say) age 33 while her club continues to hire new 21 year old dancers ! Thus it is important that the dancer's attorney bring all of these unique considerations to the Judge's attention !!!!!

    Also, in the specific case of Ohio, due to the new state anti-strip club law the dancer's attorney should be arguing that this new legislation has permanently reduced the earnings potential for ALL Ohio dancers ... thus the past income documents (showing income earned BEFORE the new law took effect) are of limited value as applied to the future, and thusly the court should factor in a permanently reduced future dancer income potential into the 5 year repayment plan which directly stems from the passage of the new state anti-strip club law. From this angle it is of vital importance that the dancer show a ledger of recent shifts worked and recent actual earnings ... versus less recent shifts worked prior to the enactment of the new law with higher actual earnings.

    If the attorney can drive home a strong correlation between the passage of the new Ohio state law, immediate reduction in Ohio dancer earnings potential due to the new law 'outlawing' lap dances, and the resulting need for a bankruptcy filing due to gov't mandates reducing the dancer's earning potential permanently, the payment schedule arrived at by the Bankruptcy Court could wind up being much more favorable towards the dancer filing for bankruptcy (or at least financially realistic in terms of today's reduced earnings potential with the new Ohio law in effect). Along those lines, it would be extremely helpful if the dancer's bankruptcy attorney were to include the text of the new Ohio law / news coverage documenting reduced dancer incomes etc. right along with the initial filing of detailed financial information. From the point of view of the bankruptcy judge, understanding the consequences of the new Ohio law may also mean a major change in 'perception' of the bankruptcy filer ... in other words, instead of viewing the filer as being financially irresponsible, the judge may instead view the filer as the 'victim' of government intervention which caused adverse changes in her recent business earnings through no fault of her own !!!!!

    your attorney may be interest in presenting ...





    !
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-17-2008 at 06:44 PM.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff...

    ^^^


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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    that was awesome! thank you! however i dont have any ledgers of anything i have made and havent had a bank account in almost a year. i do have 3 years of tax records though. my main claim is my anxiety issues causing me to not being able to work as much, and the new stripper bill as well as a prior domestic violence episode where i lost everything i owned.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    well I hate to say this, but you really should try to create a ledger based on your best recollections. Not only would that help show that you are 'financially responsible', but it would also more clearly make the point about the new Ohio law kicking your earnings potential in the head.

    I also hate to say this, but raising the anxiety issue as preventing you from working is probably going to fall on deaf ears in the absence of some medical documentation to support an actual diagnosis and treatment of a 'disability'. Your creditors will try to make the point in court that once you found yourself 'underwater' that you simply gave up working in hopes of being able to file a chapter 7 bankruptcy. Keep in mind that a chapter 13 bankruptcy usually involves a 5 year court ordered repayment plan. If you don't follow through on your end of the court ordered plan i.e. if the court orders you to work X shifts per week and you don't do it, in the absence of a documented 'disability' you could be held in breach ... which might mean that the chapter 13 bankruptcy may drag on and on for years and years beyond the planned 5 year completion.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    my lawyer never mentioned anything about needing anything of the sort, so i have no idea. now im all worried

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    Without medical documentation stating that your anxiety, etc are causing you to miss work, it will be ignored.

    You cannot claim any kind of disability without a doctor signed medical document. It just won't fly.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    Any luck with reaching your lawyer about the disability stuff? Based on your other threads that mention certain meds, I'm guessing you've been under treatment for a while? Do you know if the doc coded the treatment for anxiety/ptsd?
    "Don't piss off a motivated stripper."


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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    i have not been able to get ahold of him as of yet...its frustrating. he said there would be no problems filing and the meeting of the creditors and the trustee would only last a half hour. im hoping if any of this was an issue he would have already talked things over with me.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    i have not been able to get ahold of him as of yet...its frustrating.
    Grrrrrrrr.

    I'm sending positive energy.
    "Don't piss off a motivated stripper."


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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    I got my letter in the mail about what i need to bring to my trustee meeting for chapter 13 BR. Since im self employed i am asked to bring:

    "a balance sheet that shows the assets and liabilities of my buisness
    and
    a profit loss projection statement that supports the income that i listed on my bankruptcy petition"

    what are these?

    im so lost....
    OK, I can help you. Your balance sheet is a snapshot of your company at any particular date. You usually find that balance sheets are stated at a month end. They will list all your assets and liabilities. It could be as simple as this:

    _______________________________--

    Balance sheet as of 4/30/08

    ASSETS

    Cash $500

    TOTAL ASSETS $500

    LIABILITIES

    Loan from XYZ bank $500

    Stockholders Equity $0

    TOTAL LIABILITIES AND STOCKHOLDERS EQUITY $500

    ________________________________

    Note: Assets ALWAYS = Liabilities + Stockholders Equity

    You should probably throw your balance sheet on a spreadsheet like excel.


    The profit/ loss projection is what you expect to make (or lose). It should match what you listed in your bancruptcy filing. So if you said you'd make $1,000 over the next 12 months you'd do something like this:

    ____________________

    Projected P&L for the 12 months ended 12/31/08

    Revenue $10,000

    Expenses $9,000

    Net Income $1,000

    ________________

    Again, throw this in a spreadsheet like excel.

    Let me know if you have more questions.

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    Default Re: need help decifering legal stuff... (re Chapter 13 bankruptcy filing)

    you are amazing thank you!

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