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Thread: Question?

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    Default Question?

    It seems to me that every time the topic of "extras" girls arises, one of the biggest complaints is, "If we're in the couch room/on the floor next to each other, my customer will expect me to do everything the girl next to me is doing. His expectations will increase as a result of his observation." I know I've made that observation myself a few times. After all, I know FOR A FACT that at least half the girls in my club have done OTC P4P on occassion--one actively solicits in the club and does it about 2-3 times/week. It doesn't bother me because it doesn't really affect me. If she was fucking & sucking on the couch next to me, it would bother me.

    So what if you had a club that had NO "couch rooms"? For example, the club has "couch rooms" that are actually little booths with sheer curtains. That way the bouncers could still hear if there was a problem and would be able to see (like shadow dancers) if there was a major issue, but other customers wouldn't be able to tell what was going on in the booth next to them. And then the club could also have like a "champagne room" or something--a larger room with an actual door (but probably an open window at the top so that if you yelled for a bouncer he could hear you).

    Would that solve the problem? Make it better? Make it worse?

    We're not going to get rid of the extras girls any time soon. If the club had a system like that, would it at least make it a little easier? That way the extras girls could do their thing, and the non-extras girls could do THEIR thing, and the customers wouldn't really be the wiser.

    Opinions?

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    God/dess loveandluxury's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    I think the club's goal should be to eliminate the extras, not help to hide the fact that they are happening so other customers won't expect them.

    Animals are my friends, and I don't eat my friends.
    - George Bernard Shaw

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Question?

    No, it would not make it better. In fact, it would make it worse. The girls would do more extras (easier to do if nobody is watching), word would get out that the girls are doing it and getting away with it, and the club would be overrun with extras girls and customers seeking extras and only "dancing" with girls who do extras.

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    Default Re: Question?

    I would like less extras, but not having to see them helps a lot! I've been able to hustle at touchy clubs by strategically placing myself & my customer where he can't see the other girls. I would not go into a room with a door though-nothing more solid than a curtain.

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    God/dess CKXXX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    I've worked in a lot of clubs with booths like that and it didnt help. Because the guys became trained. Once a cpl girls gave up more in the booth..they started to expect it of everyone. And told their friends to..and on and on. Thats how it got so bad in the past few years in FL. Guys were trained to expect more.

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    Banned i.breathe.in's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    ive worked at a few clubs that have the booths minus curtains. it didnt seem to change anything.

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    Default Re: Question?

    ^^That's true. I'm not in quite a full on extras city as you are. We're getting there, sadly. I really wish dances could be on the floor, in full view all the time. Which is why I like my club at the moment-certain girls get away with stuff, but all non-VIP dances are on the floor.

    ETA: I meant my reply for CKXXX.

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    Default Re: Question?

    we have booths but they all have cameras, so we keep extras to a minimum, but I still get the guys that say "well, so and so let me do this" but it does help a little. Still the thing is, in a club with locals, guys figure out just how much they can get, so eventually if some are and some arent, those that arent doing extras wont make money. If one girl starts getting way more dances than anyone else, we'll watch the cameras, and more than half the time it's cuz she's doing extras.
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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    I work in a full nude, "no contact" club where we give dances in separate rooms (they have swinging double doors like in Western movies, and the walls don't go all the way up to the ceilings). These rooms are monitored by cameras. I work in a small club--we only have about five of these rooms--and the VIP rooms are monitored by one bouncer.

    I highly suspect (based on what custies have told me, and my own 'sneak a peek' observations) that many of these girls are doing extras in the rooms. The bouncer often isn't looking at the camera monitors while he's back there. He'll always pay attention if something goes wrong, but otherwise, he just stares straight ahead...

    Seeing as how it's a small club, I doubt too much is going on back there, but I know it's more than what we're allowed to do. Luckily, our club has a pretty high turnover for guys, and they all walk in knowing that we're a no-contact club. So I haven't really noticed that extras have affected my ability to get dances.

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    Then what IS the solution? We can say we'd like to "get rid of extras girls", but most of us know that's unlikely to happen. Unfortunately, men are GOING to expect more. Pornography is far more prevalent these days, and so they aren't going to be as excited by the mere sight of a naked woman. Girls are easy these days, and if they just want to get laid they can walk into almost any bar in the country and walk out with a slutty 19-year-old. Frankly, there simply isn't as much of a market for straight dancing as there used to be.

    Dancers have always made money BECAUSE what they were doing was socially taboo. Never, in polite society, would you see a woman's titties. Never, in polite society, would a beautiful sex kitten come up to you and dance so close to you. So men went to stripclubs where they paid out the nose for the opportunity to be with these beautiful sex kittens that were more myth and legend than reality.

    But now, nudity is no longer socially taboo, and even the ugliest man can get a young, nubile woman rubbing her naked body on him (given enough liquor, money, or both), so the original "market" is rapidly disappearing. Some girls (I'd say a lot of the girls on this board) have begun to "market" themselves to a higher-class clientele. Whereas the original stripper was paid for being LESS sophisticated than the average lady (because if she was a lady, she wouldn't be stripping), the 21st-century stripper is paid for being MORE sophisticated than the average lady. Other girls, sadly, are marketing themselves toward the customer who wants high mileage, heavy grinding, and lots of sexual (vs. sensual) intensity. The problem that we're facing is that the second market is larger than the first, and so many dancers, in order to promote themselves, resort to serving that second demographic.

    The simple fact is that MANY strippers tend to be a bit selfish. They're not going to sacrifice their income for someone else's discomfort, particularly not now that the "Me" generation has hit in full force. So what is the solution?

    Here's a few questions, in a nutshell:

    1)Is it possible to go back to the "glory days" of dancing, where customers didn't expect a handjob in the back room?
    2)If so, what changes need to be made in order for that to happen?
    3)If not, what changes need to be made in order for us to continue to profit in the "new" market?



    ETA: I apologize for my pessimism. I've been VERY frustrated lately, trying to make a living while still adhering to my OWN standards (which are already lower than the "norm" on this board) and not having any real luck. I do see it as an issue of market evolution. So how can we deal with it? Is there a way to continue to profit in this new market? Or a new way to profit in this new market? I do apologize for being so pessimistic, but I've been feeling really down about this lately. To be perfectly honest, I feel like the only reason I haven't taken up whoring full-time is because my fiance would kill me if I did. But hey, I stand a better chance getting busted for prostitution in a stripclub (giving a clean dance) than as an ACTUAL prostitute. And frankly, when I can barely afford to pay my housefees and tipouts but I'm offered $300 and up for sex, it does get tempting after awhile. I want to succeed as a DANCER, but lately it just feels like that's an impossible goal.

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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    Quote Originally Posted by morgantx View Post

    1)Is it possible to go back to the "glory days" of dancing, where customers didn't expect a handjob in the back room?
    2)If so, what changes need to be made in order for that to happen?
    3)If not, what changes need to be made in order for us to continue to profit in the "new" market?
    1) Yes, it is possible, depending on your city ordinances, and your level of motivation to keep the club clean. If you have proof that these girls are soliciting on your property and/or performing illegal acts, then these girls should be fired. Your club probably already has a reputation for being a little dirty, so it's just going to attract more girls who are willing to do extras unless the club cleans up its act. This won't be an overnight solution, and you'll likely lose some business at first, but at least your club will be avoiding the threat of massive prostitution fines!

    2) The changes are pretty clear. Fire the extras girls (if you have proof). If I were a stripper looking to work in your area, I'd research the clubs, and likely avoid any that seemed raunchy. I'm a pretty girl who can make good money and put on a good show, but there's no way I'd put myself in a club where I knew girls were giving away extras in the back. In theory, your re-vamped club should attract 'cleaner' girls.

    **But I'm assuming that you're just a dancer there, right? So you likely won't be able to influence the hiring/firing process. If I were you, I'd switch clubs. You'll always be able to make more money doing something more risky/illegal/unsafe-- dealing drugs, fucking strangers, etc. etc. So these don't seem like solutions to me.
    Last edited by charlie61; 06-02-2008 at 01:42 PM. Reason: clarification

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    ^^^Charlie, the club in my city with the CLEANEST reputation was also the one where you were most likely to see bj and fs in the back room! The club I'm at now is actually VERY clean in the club. It's a small club and there's a pretty strong sense of camraderie there, and it's considered very rude to the other dancers to give hardcore extras ITC, so they usually arrange to go OTC when they're going to actually engage in prostitution.

    But I will say this as well: You can attract all the "clean" dancers you want, but if you can't bring in customers, it's kind of pointless. And IME at the three clubs I've worked in this town (which is very strict on prostitution and obscenity ordinances), the customers want and expect some degree of "dirty dancing" (from grinding to getting off, depending on the customer). If you cleaned up your club completely, the customers simply wouldn't come. Since our clubs are already operating on razor-thin profit margins (happy hour drink specials with reduced beer and liquor from 5-9 every night, cover charges less than $5, etc.), losing customers is a pretty big fear. So it's a Victorian compromise. Publicly, they proclaim that you'll be fired on the spot if you do ________, but they know better than to actually pay too close attention, because FIRING all the whores will just drive away the customers.

    It's not just about getting rid of the extras girls. It's also about getting/keeping customers who aren't going to demand extras.

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    Default Re: Question?

    Other than a giant bubonic/extras related plague, I don't know WHAT would change the custies.

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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    Yikes, morgan. Then I got nothin'. I liked the bubonic/extras plague idea though...

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    God/dess loveandluxury's Avatar
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    ^ Exactly. Get a college education and have a backup plan. Stripping isn't what it used to be nor do I think it will ever fully get back to what it was.

    Animals are my friends, and I don't eat my friends.
    - George Bernard Shaw

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    It's really true. They don't care where they put their mouths/hands/dicks. They're often totally vulgar bottomfeeders and sadly, so are a lot of the managers.

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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    My best advice is still just to change clubs--in your case, change cities. My city doesn't allow for any contact, so any contact that does occur is relatively tame. I'd be fucked if I moved to a full-contact city.

    What I do is the equivalent of what most college girls go out and do at bars for free, but I'm getting stripper cash for it. (Well, my job is slightly more risque as far as nudity goes, but still...)

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    Default Re: Question?

    i worked primarily in booth-style environments where a lot of young guys who weren't jaded came in as customers. because of the booths, they would tell each other all kinds of whatever, but were quite happy with low contact or airdances.

    as for guys over 21, again my experience was more that they were happy with the privacy enough that they weren't pressing for extras or being inspired towards grabbiness to nearly the same degree as in the open-layout topless clubs i worked in.

    but i did stop dancing for anyone with 20 or 40 dollars pretty early on into my dancing time, so i was focused on getting all the money i could off guys i built rapport with.

    extras were rampant, but it was a source of amusement to my customers rather than something to seek for themselves, as a general rule. so, the booth thing worked great for me, but it didn't reduce extras, just made me have better selling points to get max money out of all the non-extras seekers that came through.

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    Veteran Member Nini Nieb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    morgantx !! Excellent post(s) !! Flat out ...

    Allow me a few comments ... If I may ...

    The simple fact is that MANY strippers tend to be a bit selfish. They're not going to sacrifice their income for someone else's discomfort, particularly not now that the "Me" generation has hit in full force. So what is the solution?

    This is a classic issue in Economics. A group of providers joining together making a cartel thereby monopolizing the market hence controlling the amount and the price of that commodity. In this case ... All strippers unite thereby controlling the price and the amount of Extras ...

    This is not gonna happend !!!

    (1) Every stripper has a big urge to join the cartel. But also a big urge to personally and secretly to break the rules of the cartel. Basic Economics ...

    (2) The custommers won't like ... If you don't care about that ?? The Invisible Hand won't like it either. Don't fuck with The Invisble Hand !! You can't win !!

    (3) It's not only strippers competing. Competion include porn, street/walkers, escorts, web/cam, friendly girls etc ...
    Last edited by Nini Nieb; 06-02-2008 at 03:09 PM.

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    ^^^Nini, I want to add that your third point is SPOT ON!

    Seriously, look at what all there WASN'T back in the 70's...

    PORN: If you wanted to watch porn, you had to go to the local XXX place and buy it. These were outright banned in many areas and then there was a HUGE social stigma. What if someone saw your car in the parking lot? Then the tapes that you could buy were very vanilla. Primarily bj and vaginal intercourse. Anal was very rare in mainstream porn, and other fetishes (bdsm, bestiality, etc.) were virtually unheard of. As an alternative to the XXX store, you could mail-order, but then you ran the risk of someone noticing the "plain brown package" that arrived at your doorstep. NOW, it's a different ballgame. You can access the raunchiest most depraved pornography for FREE from your very own personal computer. And porn itself has changed. It's not vanilla anymore. Anal is the norm. DP is so common it doesn't even seem shocking. BDSM is prevalent, and bestiality/golden showers/scat-play isn't even that difficult to locate. A female pornstar used to be able to BANK by just having ordinary oral and vaginal sex. Now the female talent is getting paid less and less to do some hardcore gang-bang.

    ESCORTS: Frankly, escorts in the 70's tended to be almost exclusively street-walkers. You had no way of knowing ANYTHING about your street-walker. You didn't know whether she was clean (although she probably wasn't, since she rode bareback) or whether she was a cop. Now, thanks to aspd and terb, you can get a full review of your escort. It used to be that a cokehead with meth mouth and syphillis could charge $100 for a blowjob. Now, they expect a model-quality high-class escort who will do anal for $50.

    SLUTS: Good god, I don't even know where to start! I honestly think that sluts do more to hurt the sex industry than anything else. I mean, women used to have STANDARDS! But now, the smelly, fat, ugly, rude, obnoxious, asshat can walk into just about any bar in this country and get laid, usually for just the cost of a few shots. From a simple economic standpoint, why would a guy pay for a topless girl to put boobs in his face when he can get it for free? Why would a guy pay to watch a girl dance topless on a bar when he can see that at his corner pub for free? Why would a guy pay to watch people fucking when he can actually FUCK someone for free? Why would a guy pay to get laid when he can get it for free? So because all these sluts are willing to give out blow jobs and sex like it's candy, the sex industry has had to get WORSE in order to compete.

    In other words, men are only going to pay for something that they CAN'T GET for free. So if girls in the bar are going topless, a man isn't going to pay for topless, but he MIGHT pay for full nude. If some slut is going to go home with him and fuck him, he's not going to pay for it, but he MIGHT pay for anal sex with a prostitute if he can't find a willing woman, or he MIGHT pay for a model-quality high-end escort if the only women he can get are fat hos.

    Frankly, I think that if you want to solve the problem of extras girls, you have to FIRST solve the problem of extras-seeking customers, but you can't do THAT until you solve the problem of sluts and hos giving it all away for free.

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    God/dess CKXXX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question?

    Quote Originally Posted by morgantx View Post
    A female pornstar used to be able to BANK by just having ordinary oral and vaginal sex. Now the female talent is getting paid less and less to do some hardcore gang-bang.
    Aint THAT the truth. I havent shot a film in months because I dont do anal or anything else. Nobody cares about porn thats just "regular" sex anymore....sucks that you can be willing to have sex on film for money...and STILL not make any!

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