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Thread: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

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    Default Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    ... but somehow state and local agencies are handling matters quite well, just as state and local agencies did in Mississippi and Alabama during hurricane Katrina. In fact you really have to go out of your way to find news coverage.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Strange isn't it.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    In fact you really have to go out of your way to find news coverage.
    Hmm. Maybe it's more about your prefered news sources ( i.e conservative news groups) because I have been seeing lots and lots about it during my CNN coffee breaks over the past few days. Especially during the morning news coverage.
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Mel, I don't read you exactly here. Are we complaining there is lack of media coverage on the flood in general, or some perceived anti flyover country slant in it?
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    We have been pretty luck in my part of the mid-west. I really feel for the folks who are battling natures fury in the other areas

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    ^^^ my point was that you don't see Geraldo Rivera or Shepard Smith reporting from the washed out bridge in Cedar Rapids. You don't see the mayor of Cedar Rapids calling for immediate FEMA assistance. You don't see the governor of Iowa authorizing the use of federal troops to supress widespread looting and other crimes that state and local police can't / won't address.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan Dah View Post
    There is flooding. It is bad. Definitely.
    New Orleans and Louisiana have more of a reputation for governmental corruption than Iowa. Not disputed.

    But I'm not sure how it can be determined the current flooding is "just as bad". According to Wikipedia, 80% of NOLA was flooded. Is 100 blocks 80% of Cedar Rapids.

    And I'm not sure comparisons of population and local government response between the two places when one has about four times the population and 2/3 the median income - and probably a significantly larger "deep poverty" underclass - are particularly fair or meaningful. On scalability alone, I wonder what would happen if, say, 80% of New York City was flooded. Hint: They practically come to a standstill if there's a couple of inches of rain.

    A bit more information about the situation:

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ my point was that you don't see Geraldo Rivera or Shepard Smith reporting from the washed out bridge in Cedar Rapids. You don't see the mayor of Cedar Rapids calling for immediate FEMA assistance. You don't see the governor of Iowa authorizing the use of federal troops to supress widespread looting and other crimes that state and local police can't / won't address.

    Well, the previous post to this might have a point or two.

    Louisiana is very democratic while much of the Midwest is conservative. Choosy reporting on part of Fox and other conservative news outlets?

    I also suspect Katrina has offered up a lot of lessons about how to handle disasters.

    It must be said that the small towns and cities of the Midwest are more "help your neighbor" than a lot of parts of major cities, so instead of sitting around people are trying what they can to get it together.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Louisiana is very democratic while much of the Midwest is conservative. Choosy reporting on part of Fox and other conservative news outlets?
    or choosy non-reporting on the part of CNN and other liberal news outlets ?


    I also suspect Katrina has offered up a lot of lessons about how to handle disasters
    this does not explain how Mississippi and Alabama were able to cope reasonably well during the original hurricane Katrina, while Louisiana could not. A possible explanation can be found at


    small towns and cities of the Midwest are more "help your neighbor" than a lot of parts of major cities, so instead of sitting around people are trying what they can to get it together
    this is certainly a valid point ... which to some degree draws an analogy to Mississippi and Alabama during the original hurricane Katrina. But I would argue that at best this is a small contributing factor.


    If you read between the lines of what news coverage is out there re the Iowa flooding, there appear to be other analogies to Mississippi and Alabama during the original hurricane Katrina. Among them appears to be ...

    - state and local public officials are making plans and issuing evacuation orders well in advance of situations reaching crisis levels

    - the rule of law is being maintained ... with cops still doing their jobs, with prisoners being transferred to jails in other areas instead of released onto the street etc.

    - local residents are not 'adding to the problem' via new criminal activities - perhaps attributable to the continued presence of local cops and the continued rule of law.

    - businesses and state / local gov'ts are moving their essential personnel, records etc. to other areas so that they can continue to function.

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    Veteran Member LadyLuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Melonie you are completely discounting the fact that Katrina was a hurricane which ofcourse includes massive wind damage, flying debris etc.

    Those thing create more damage that just flooding.

    I also think that Pan dah makes a great point about the population and median income.
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLuck View Post
    Melonie you are completely discounting the fact that Katrina was a hurricane which ofcourse includes massive wind damage, flying debris etc.

    Those thing create more damage that just flooding.

    I also think that Pan dah makes a great point about the population and median income.
    The interesting things happened after the wind stopped.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    I would also like to state that these areas are USED to flooding, to an extent. They flood quite often (they are located on a river, for crying out loud). So, it's not a big news story in the sense that it happens quite often, though not to this degree (as a levee did break).

    But, I live in NW IL and our news is full of the "updates" of the flood. Maybe it's just more local?

    But, I also have my other thoughts about why NOLA got so much more attention (aside from the hurricane) that I won't go into because of sensitivity.

    Although I do have to say...the one thing that CR should be thankful for is no alligators swimming around the flooded areas. NOLA had to deal with that and I'm sure that was not fun.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Melonie you are completely discounting the fact that Katrina was a hurricane which ofcourse includes massive wind damage, flying debris etc.

    Those thing create more damage that just flooding.
    Mississippi and Alabama took just as much wind damage / flying debris etc. as New Orleans during hurricane Katrina. And as Deo points out, the majority of 'problems' in New Orleans didn't develop until after the hurricane winds were long gone.


    I would also like to state that these areas are USED to flooding, to an extent. They flood quite often (they are located on a river, for crying out loud). So, it's not a big news story in the sense that it happens quite often, though not to this degree (as a levee did break).
    in other years, yes. However this year's flooding has surpassed all past records in regard to flood levels - like the past record was 28 feet and the flood level is now at 31 feet and headed towards 33 feet a couple of days from now. This amounts to a de-facto 'levee breach'. But I had to do research at the Weather Channel to dig up this data, since mainstream news media isn't reporting such details.


    I also think that Pan dah makes a great point about the population and median income
    OK I'll bite ... what is your thinking in regard to the large presence of a 'permanent underclass' in New Orleans versus a significant proportion of Iowa residents being 'low income' ... I mean they both received FEMA 'credit cards' ...

    (snip)"DES MOINES, Iowa -- Emergency food stamp benefits have been extended for residents of Black Hawk and Butler counties.

    Iowans who have experienced storm related expenses -- such as job disruptions, uninsured losses, cleanup, or replacement of ruined food -- may be eligible for food stamps even if they do not qualify for the regular food stamp program.

    The maximum benefit for a family of four is $540. People currently receiving food stamps may be eligible for additional benefits.

    The original deadline was extended for a week at the request of the Iowa Department of Human Services, which administers the aid. The extension was granted by the Food and Nutrition Service (FNS), which is a division of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

    The emergency program is available only in counties with a presidential disaster declaration and, separately, those approved by FNS.

    In Butler County, applications for disaster food assistance will be accepted through Tuesday, June 17, at the Veteran's Memorial Building in Parkersburg. In Black Hawk County, applications will be accepted through Wednesday, June 18, at the Iowa Department of Human Services, 1407 Independence Ave., in Waterloo.

    The disaster food assistance will come in the form of a debit-like swipe card, which is activated within a few hours of the application approval. "(snip) from

    of course, what isn't known yet is how many Iowa disaster victims will rack up FEMA 'credit card' charges for Gucci bags, for strip club private dances etc.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-15-2008 at 07:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Sorry, but I just can't see any media bias going on here.

    If there is any basis for bias, I'd say its not so much political as it is the media's tendency to favor dramatic disasters like hurricanes and tornadoes, as opposed to slow moving ones like floods. It just so happened that on Thursday morning as the railroad bridge in Cedar Rapids was collapsing into the river, that the media crews were in Iowa.

    But they were not in the Eastern half of the state were the bulk of the flooding was occurring, but in Western IA covering the story of the Boy Scout camp which was hit by a tornado, killing four of the scouts. Governor Culver of course had to be in attendance for that, even though he could really do nothing more there than offer condolences to the families who lost a kid, and laud the bravery of those who helped at the scene. Never mind the fact that the less dramatic, yet ongoing disaster in the other half of his state was affecting far more many people.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess View Post
    I would also like to state that these areas are USED to flooding, to an extent. They flood quite often (they are located on a river, for crying out loud). So, it's not a big news story in the sense that it happens quite often, though not to this degree (as a levee did break).
    VG is correct. The area in question has in fact been dealing with flooding issues for a number of months now, much of which started with a heavier than usual snowfall melt.

    I was in Des Moines back in April and even then there was some minor flooding. The recent rains have merely exasperated a situation that was already ongoing. Unlike NOLA, the local authorities and residents have had plenty of time to react. Unlike NOLA, a mass evacuation of an entire metropolitan area was not needed. Unlike NOLA, there are four directions to travel for those who did need to evacuate, many of whom have their own transportation.

    But, I live in NW IL and our news is full of the "updates" of the flood. Maybe it's just more local?
    I think its the fact that those of us who live near IA have been suffering much of the same weather problems, and the weather has been the news a lot as of late. When this happens, we tend to go to sources where we can get the latest on the weather, like say The Weather Channel. God knows I've been watching it a lot as of late, and not just to drool over Stephanie Abrams and Julie Martin.
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    OK I'll bite ... what is your thinking in regard to the large presence of a 'permanent underclass' in New Orleans versus a significant proportion of Iowa residents being 'low income' ... I mean they both received FEMA 'credit cards' ~

    The poverty level in N.O. is MUCH worse than in Cedar Rapids. Both in extremes of "poor" and in how many people live in that kind of poverty. Not to mention the population is larger in N.O. which means that there were and are simply more people who need help to begin with. Plus the overall damage is MUCH worse in N.O.


    Cedar Rapids- The median income for a household- $43,704

    Population 122,542

    Persons below poverty- 7.5%

    New Orleans Median household income- $27,355

    Population 469,032


    Persons below poverty - 27.0%
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    ^^^ re poverty levels, your point being ?

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ re poverty levels, your point being ?
    Oh come on, you are just playing dumb now.

    People who are already in poverty obviously suffer worse in these kinds of situations.
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    ^^^ no, it was a serious question ... how do people who are already in poverty supposedly suffer worse in these kind of situations ?

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    I'm watching CNN- Headline News and they had coverage of this flood about 20 mins ago. It was pretty crazy. I can't imagine not wanting to get out the house after something like that.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ no, it was a serious question ... how do people who are already in poverty supposedly suffer worse in these kind of situations ?
    OMFG!!!! If you honestly don't get the how and why they suffer worse then further discussion is simply futile.
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    ^^^ well that commentary seems to circle in towards the real point ... that no matter how poor a person is, if so ordered by local officials they can afford to walk out their front door and climb aboard a 'free' evacuation bus ... and ride to a 'free' evacuation facility ... where they can eat 'free' food, sleep in a 'free' bed, etc.

    Therefore a principal difference between New Orleans and ALL of these other disaster areas (including Mississippi and Alabama during hurricane Katrina) is that gov't officials declared emergencies and issued mandatory evacuation orders in a timely manner, that gov't officials provided the means of transportation and effective evacuation facilities for mandatory evacuees, and that gov't officials sent police / emergency services personnel to check that people in evacuation areas were actually leaving. On the other hand, Louisiana's governor hemmed and hawed about declaring an emergency, New Orleans' mayor hemmed and hawed about issuing mandatory evacuation orders until it became impossible for such an evacuation to take place, a large number of New Orleans police / emergency services personnel 'evacuated themselves' without leave to do so (with another group of NO cops leading by example i.e. looting local stores), a large number of (poor) New Orleans residents refused to evacuate until they had to be airlifted off of rooftops etc. Admittedly NO emergency services did the best they could under the circumstances, which were complicated by gunfire (seems that certain NO residents did NOT want police / emergency services coming into their neighborhoods, for whatever reason). On the subject of emergency preparedness i.e. the availability of prepared emergency receiving centers, I'll only comment that New Orleans gov't officials found lots of 'alternative uses' for the funds they had received for this purpose.

    I would also add that, unlike the points made about the 9/11 attack and the Northeast power outage, the developing situation re hurricane Katrina as well as the Iowa flooding did not occur 'out of the blue', with zero advance warning. In both cases there were DAYS between the early warnings and the actual arrival.

    But all of this is beside the point, which is the stark differerence in level and tone of news coverage ...
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-15-2008 at 06:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    You know, the more I think about it, these floods aren't getting as much media attention as previous floods such as the flooding that hit much of this same area in 1993, or the ones that inundated Grand Forks, ND in 1997 producing scenes very similar to the ones we're seeing in Cedar Rapids. Those too were considered, "record" floods, "100 year" floods, "500 year" floods, or whatever adjective of emphasis was put on them.

    Seems we've had a lot of these "for the record books" floods around the country in the last decade or so, almost to the point where coverage of them is mundane, unless of course you have a downtown under 10 feet of water and possibly some buildings on fire. Its gotten that way with school shootings too. Virginia Tech didn't get near the coverage that Columbine did even though the body count was more than double.

    Of course, back in the mid 90's, I didn't have three cable news networks to watch either.
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    I still think what she says is lack of coverage imay be more about where Mel gets her new- ie rightwing sources- because on CNN they are still showing coverage like mad.

    Here is another stat to show that unlike Mel's claiming that Cedar Rapids has sufferd equally as bad as New Orleans I submit the death toll. For N.O. it is over 1000 lost souls. See this for details -->

    So far the last death toll number I heard for Cedar Rapids is 5 persons. That will sadly but likely go up some but I seriously doubt it will be anywhere near 1000+
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    Default Re: Cedar Rapids flooding just as bad as New Orleans ...

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    Seems we've had a lot of these "for the record books" floods around the country in the last decade or so, almost to the point where coverage of them is mundane, unless of course you have a downtown under 10 feet of water and possibly some buildings on fire. Its gotten that way with school shootings too. Virginia Tech didn't get near the coverage that Columbine did even though the body count was more than double.

    Of course, back in the mid 90's, I didn't have three cable news networks to watch either.
    Yeah, but back in the 90's this was a shocker and it was the start of a trend (unfortunately). These days...people aren't so shocked. It's not as newsworthy because the shock-factor isn't there anymore.



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