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Thread: What should you get for your money?

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    Featured Member maximvsv's Avatar
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    Default What should you get for your money?

    I was browsing through other threads and ran across Yekhefah's about when it became acceptable to go to a strip club and just hang out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    It seems like every guy that comes into the club now has no money. And they're not even embarrassed about it. They'll waltz in, order some tap water or a Diet Coke, and hang out for hours without spending a dime - maybe a buck or two for the girls they really like. When you talk to them, they'll freely admit they don't have enough money for a dance; they don't even have enough to buy you a drink.

    Am I just old? Because I remember a time when any man would have been WAY too ashamed of himself to do this. Even before it ever occurred to me to go to a strip club myself, I knew they were expensive because you had to spend money on the dancers. If you couldn't afford to do that, then you couldn't afford to go to the club.

    What changed?
    I can understand the frustration of having a bunch of people in the room who aren't buying. Who wants to be any place where the potential customers windowshop but don't buy? There is a flip side to it, though.

    Even on the weekdays, a bunch of these clubs charge $20 or more just to walk through the door. A beer you could get any place else for $3 is $6-7. A single mixed drink costs more than the bottle would if you made your own.

    If I pay $10 at a movie theater, I don't have to buy the $5 soda or a $6 hot dog, I can go, find a seat, and watch the whole movie.

    So, the question for the dancers is: leaving the drinks/food/parking issues aside, if I pay my $20 at the door, what, exactly, am I supposed to get for my money?
    ED E’ SUBITO SERA

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    trafitto da un raggio di sole:
    ed è subito sera

    --Salvatore Quasimodo--

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    Veteran Member Fionaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Ya know, we dancers pay a hell of a lot more just to walk in the door - so we're really not sympathetic. And alot of us have been going home in the red lately.

    Having a $20 cover fee is to ensure that you actually have money to spend, not so you budget only for that. I'd say that going the movies is a little different.

    It's more like you're paying to go to an exclusive restaurant. Your cover charge is your membership fee. Just because you paid to get in does not entitle you to eat or drink for free. It's like going to a restaurant, watching the game all night while you sip on water and eat free bread. And the waitress doesn't make a dime or makes $2 off 5 hours.

    I think that's a better parallel.

    I'm sorry if I sound antagonistic, but I'm down to a single or low double digit take home at least once a week because of this sort of thinking.

    We're not characters on a screen.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Well... the obvious answer is that a strip club is not a movie theatre and strippers aren't screen actors.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    ..................
    Last edited by MeanGirl; 06-14-2008 at 12:44 PM.

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    You get management to let you in. We don't see a single red cent of that door fee, so we owe you nothing. You're not purchasing our services. You're allowed to sit on the clubs chairs and use their bathrooms. That's about it.

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fionaver View Post
    Ya know, we dancers pay a hell of a lot more just to walk in the door - so we're really not sympathetic. And alot of us have been going home in the red lately.
    Yeah I can't be that sympathetic either-at a place I know you have been Maxim-we paid $85 for a night shift. PLUS tip outs. I don't have a huge problem with some people who want to watch, if they are tipping at the rail, or not staying all damn day and being jerks, telling how they know the game or some other such crap. But when that is the majority of custies-what can we do as dancers?

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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fionaver View Post
    Ya know, we dancers pay a hell of a lot more just to walk in the door - so we're really not sympathetic. And alot of us have been going home in the red lately.

    Having a $20 cover fee is to ensure that you actually have money to spend, not so you budget only for that. I'd say that going the movies is a little different.

    It's more like you're paying to go to an exclusive restaurant. Your cover charge is your membership fee. Just because you paid to get in does not entitle you to eat or drink for free. It's like going to a restaurant, watching the game all night while you sip on water and eat free bread. And the waitress doesn't make a dime or makes $2 off 5 hours.

    I think that's a better parallel.

    I'm sorry if I sound antagonistic, but I'm down to a single or low double digit take home at least once a week because of this sort of thinking.

    We're not characters on a screen.
    ^^ I like this analogy. Screen actors make an assload of money just for making the movie--they don't have to show up to every screening and pine for dollars. Since dancers don't make an hourly wage, either, then their situation could be considered to be even worse than the waitress' situation.

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximvsv View Post
    If I pay $10 at a movie theater, I don't have to buy the $5 soda or a $6 hot dog, I can go, find a seat, and watch the whole movie.
    The thing is, movie theaters are mainstream enterprises that have to be compliant with labor laws and can suffer greatly if they don't adhere to good customer service standards. Government officials aren't trying to make their operation difficult with the next law or ordinance. You can't say said applies to sexually oriented businesses.

    I'd also point out that about 90% of that admission ticket revenue goes back to Hollywood in some degree (which is why those concession prices are even more extortive). Tom Cruise and Steven Spielberg are still going to get their cut. OTOH, dancers might only see any proceeds from your door cover if they work in the minority of clubs that actually pay an hourly wage.

    A better analogy for the majority of clubs we frequent where the dancers pay some sort of fee to the house would perhaps be a trade/home show, or on a less glittery degree a flea market. The club owners are the ones running the event. The dancers are the show vendors who pay to set up a booth at said event, and the customers are the people who buy what the vendors are selling.

    Its really a very symbiotic relationship that works when all three parties do their part to keep it going. When one party starts getting stingy with their responsibilities, it doesn't serve the other two well to pull their weight either.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    It's a very common misconception. You pay $20 to walk in to a place where you can see naked ladies. That's it . You shouldn't get anything more for your money. You get access .

    If you don't have a lot to spend .... spend it on the dancers. Have a few beers at home .... and just buy a beer or two. Make sure you are spending on the dancers .... after all .... you already gave $20 to the club ,so they don't need more of a profit.

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    Featured Member maximvsv's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    I understand that you want to make money, too, but that is not the issue.

    I know the house fee structure at the club where I hang out. I've even paid it for around half a dozen dancers at the place on various occasions. That's not the issue, either.

    For those that presented something close to an answer, the proposals are not specific enough.

    If I spend $20 at a book store, I get $20 worth of books--around 3 paperback books or one or two hardback books. If I buy a calendar or candy or coffee there, fine, but it still get the books I've bought. If I buy a ticket to someone's play, I can see the play. I can still buy a tee-shirt or some other memorabilia, but I still can see the play. If I buy $20 worth of gasoline at a gas station, I get around five gallons of gasoline. I may still buy a soda, food, or pay several hundred dollars getting my car fixed, but I still get the gasoline. If I pay $20 at a parking garage, I can leave my car there for a full day. If I pay $20 at Staples, I can get a case of paper or an ink cartridge.

    So, be specific. What, exactly, am I supposed to get for my $20?
    ED E’ SUBITO SERA

    Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra
    trafitto da un raggio di sole:
    ed è subito sera

    --Salvatore Quasimodo--

    =============================

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Okay...
    the problem is that your analogies don't make sense. Who are we in these analogies? Like - are the dancers the person selling the book, the person selling the popcorn, the actress on the screen? These aren't analogous to strip clubs in these particulars. The only thing these work environments have in common is that consumers spend money - which is like 90% of work environments. It could be that for these purposes comparing a strip cover to buying a book is not useful.

    In answer - what you get is access to the club. It is not supposed to be a substitute for spending either at the bar or on dancers. You think that is too much to charge for access to club? Cool. But I don't think "what you get" is at all mysterious.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member maximvsv's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan Dah View Post
    The opportunity to buy some entertainment from beautiful women.

    If you go to an Auto Show, a Home Show, a Gun Show, etc. you aren't entitled to any of the merchandise displayed there; in a strip club, the "merchandise" is not a car, a patio screen or a rifle - it's entertainment provided by watching naked women dance on stage. If you're not paying them for their performance, your stealing from them just as much as if you hot-wired that Jag at the Auto Show and drove it out the door.
    See, I've been to these sorts of shows. I can watch the guy demonstrating the gadget that lets an AR-15 rapid fire rounds like a machine gun for as long as the demo goes on. I can spend the entire day looking over the pistols and rifles at a gun show. I can spend the whole time at a home show, watching people who are selling tools or siding or bathroom fixtures put on their demonstrations about their products. I can watch the video of the Hummer going over some near vertical surface or the Lexus sliding through its drift driving ad all day, if I want. For the price of admission, I get to actually see the show. Sure, I have the opportunity to buy something else on sale, there, but I can stay there fore the whole show, if I want.
    ED E’ SUBITO SERA

    Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra
    trafitto da un raggio di sole:
    ed è subito sera

    --Salvatore Quasimodo--

    =============================

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Okay, here's a nerd-tastic, but hopefully relevant answer. You go to the ren faire (sci-fi con, whatev). For your $20 you get to see the jugglers, the saucy wenches, etc. But if you go around taking up shopkeepers time, or trying to holler at said saucy rose-selling wench, they are going to want you to pay for something. If everyone came to the renfaire, paid their $20 and then nothing else, there would be no ren faire. Especially if they came in, grumbled at everyone, complained about the cost of ye olde turkey leg and ignored all the hard working actors. Vendors would have to close up. Good Queen Bess-back to paid summer stock. We are the vendors and actors.

    If you come in, you are part of the fun. Or are supposed to be. Support the fun. You wouldn't drive all the way there to JUST soak up the terribly authentic camp ground atmosphere, right? That would be just lame.

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    God/dess carmen_b's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    ^ I think you aren't reading some of the posts. We already told you what you get for the $20 fee ( it's called an entrance fee for a reason).

    You get to enter the club .... where you then buy some drinks , watch the girls on stage ( which you should them tip for ) , and get some dances. You get it . Don't pretend you don't understand what we are telling you.

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    Featured Member maximvsv's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Okay...
    the problem is that your analogies don't make sense. Who are we in these analogies? Like - are the dancers the person selling the book, the person selling the popcorn, the actress on the screen? These aren't analogous to strip clubs in these particulars. The only thing these work environments have in common is that consumers spend money - which is like 90% of work environments. It could be that for these purposes comparing a strip cover to buying a book is not useful.

    In answer - what you get is access to the club. It is not supposed to be a substitute for spending either at the bar or on dancers. You think that is too much to charge for access to club? Cool. But I don't think "what you get" is at all mysterious.
    It is not an analogy argument. These are not meant metaphorically. If I buy a movie ticket, I actually do get to watch the movie. I can do more, or I can leave early. These are all actual things that my movie ticket purchase entitles me to do.
    ED E’ SUBITO SERA

    Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra
    trafitto da un raggio di sole:
    ed è subito sera

    --Salvatore Quasimodo--

    =============================

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximvsv View Post
    It is not an analogy argument. These are not meant metaphorically. If I buy a movie ticket, I actually do get to watch the movie. I can do more, or I can leave early. These are all actual things that my movie ticket purchase entitles me to do.
    I know. And you are analogizing buying that movie ticket to paying a cover charge at a strip club and asking why you have to, in essence, spend more in the strip club. And I said that those things can't be juxtaposed because they have nothing in common except that the consumer spends money - which is the case in nearly every business. I'm sorry - where have I lost you?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  17. #17
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Your $20 admission is $20 admission. I like the Renn Faire example. A cover charge gets you in the door, that's it. It doesn't entitle you to steal from the contractors once you're in there, and enjoying the services without paying for them is theft no matter how you try to justify it.

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximvsv View Post
    See, I've been to these sorts of shows. I can watch the guy demonstrating the gadget that lets an AR-15 rapid fire rounds like a machine gun for as long as the demo goes on. I can spend the entire day looking over the pistols and rifles at a gun show. I can spend the whole time at a home show, watching people who are selling tools or siding or bathroom fixtures put on their demonstrations about their products. I can watch the video of the Hummer going over some near vertical surface or the Lexus sliding through its drift driving ad all day, if I want. For the price of admission, I get to actually see the show. Sure, I have the opportunity to buy something else on sale, there, but I can stay there fore the whole show, if I want.
    Yeah, you can do that if you want. But consider this.

    The promoter of that trade show isn't putting it on and all the bells and whistles that go with it just for shits and giggles. He's doing it to make money. A great degree of this money comes from booth space revenue paid for by the vendors who set up shop there, and the rest from an admission charge if there is one. They have an expected return on their investment and if they don't get it, there's no incentive to put on that show.

    The vendors aren't investing in that booth space for shits and giggles either. They're only doing it to make money. They make the entirety of their money on people buying their wares/services. They too have an expected return on their investment and if they don't get it, there's no incentive for them to buy that booth space, or in a dancer's case, pay that house fee.

    You need to put the entitlement complex aside and start thinking about this equation logically. If you don't buy services from the ladies at your club, they'll stop dancing, and if they stop dancing, your fellow customers who would otherwise buy from them will no longer come in, and if there are no dancers or customers, the club owner has no reason to set up shop.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Featured Member maximvsv's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by carmen_b View Post
    ^ I think you aren't reading some of the posts. We already told you what you get for the $20 fee ( it's called an entrance fee for a reason).

    You get to enter the club .... where you then buy some drinks , watch the girls on stage ( which you should them tip for ) , and get some dances. You get it . Don't pretend you don't understand what we are telling you.
    I'm not pretending anything. I'm asking you to spell it out. "Enter the club" is simply too general. What does "enter" mean there?
    ED E’ SUBITO SERA

    Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra
    trafitto da un raggio di sole:
    ed è subito sera

    --Salvatore Quasimodo--

    =============================

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    ^^Oh FFS. You're out of freaking control.

  21. #21
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    From Mirriam-Webster:

    Main Entry:
    en·ter
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈen-tər\
    Function:
    verb
    Inflected Form(s):
    en·tered; en·ter·ing \ˈen-t(ə-)riŋ\
    Etymology:
    Middle English entren, from Anglo-French entrer, from Latin intrare, from intra within; akin to Latin inter between — more at inter-
    Date:
    13th century
    intransitive verb
    1: to go or come in
    2: to come or gain admission into a group : join —often used with into
    This is right up there with Bill Clinton asking for the definition of "is." Stop playing stupid.

  22. #22
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by RoseLeigh View Post
    ^^Oh FFS. You're out of freaking control.
    Puts on moderator hat:
    Okay, everyone, let's remember what we learned in kindergarten - there are no stupid questions.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    ^^Even if it's obviously baiting questions?

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    Veteran Member slims099's Avatar
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    Smiley Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I know. And you are analogizing buying that movie ticket to paying a cover charge at a strip club and asking why you have to, in essence, spend more in the strip club. And I said that those things can't be juxtaposed because they have nothing in common except that the consumer spends money - which is the case in nearly every business. I'm sorry - where have I lost you?
    http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/analogizing
    http://www.allwords.com/word-analogizing.html

    Sorry I just had to.
    Man oh man, what a trip it's been.

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    Default Re: What should you get for your money?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximvsv View Post
    So, the question for the dancers is: leaving the drinks/food/parking issues aside, if I pay my $20 at the door, what, exactly, am I supposed to get for my money?
    Entrance to the club. That's it. everything else is extra.

    Dancers will talk to you......because they are working and trying to sell dances. And you will see dancers on stage dancing promoting themselves so as they can get dances with men that want to pay for them.

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