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Thread: Proof of torture at Gitmo

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    Veteran Member LadyLuck's Avatar
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    Default Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Now there is evidence that the Bush admin. commited war crimes with torture at Gitmo as well as at Abu Ghraib. Probably the worst part of this is the people were completely innocent and were not only tortured but held for years of their lives. Note they were eventually released without even a single charge of a crime.

    And gee what is the punishment for war crimes again?

    I predict that someday will we see GW Bush and his associates tried and sentenced for their part in the various acts of torture, rape and murder that have ordered and condoned.

    Here are some snippets from the article describing some of the details of the latest info released. The full article is linked below.


    Medical examinations of former terrorism suspects held by the U.S. military at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, found evidence of torture


    evidence of U.S. torture and war crimes and accuses U.S. military health professionals of allowing the abuse of detainees, denying them medical care


    One Iraqi prisoner, identified only as Yasser, reported being subjected to electric shocks three times and being sodomized with a stick. His thumbs bore round scars consistent with shocking,


    The report came as the Senate Armed Services Committee revealed documents showing military lawyers warned the Pentagon that methods it was using post-9/11 violated military, U.S. and international law


    Four reported being sodomized


    All 11 were released without criminal charges.


    Bush and other U.S. officials have consistently denied that the U.S. tortures its detainees.


    The abuse of some prisoners by their American captors is well documented by the government's own reports
    Last edited by LadyLuck; 06-18-2008 at 10:30 AM.
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    Banned i.breathe.in's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    holy crap i was just going to post this in your other thread but couldnt find it. its on cnn also.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    hopefully, when Osama Bin Laden hears about this, he'll target a different US city besides New York next time ! Hopefully he'll also send a 'thank-you note' to the US Supreme Court !

    In keeping with your precedent in other threads, I would point out that 'Doctors for Human Rights' is hardly an objective source ... and uncorroborated 'reports' by prisoners as to their supposed 'mistreatment' is certainly an area open to question. In other words, based on the AOL news story, there are lots of accusations but zero hard evidence to be found.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    A number of the prisoners released from Gitmo went back to Iraq and killed American soldiers.
    Here's the story of one of them.

    http://sweetness-light.com/archive-g...-kill-7-iraqis


    had we released him like this, maybe those 7 would still be alive;

    http://funny-potato.com/terrorist-release.html

    I say if it saves American lives, torture away.

    You do realize that those tortured ( if they were ) and released would have been killed if there wasn't a camp to detain them in?
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post

    I say if it saves American lives, torture away.

    this is the sad elitism of americans...we think our lives are worth more then anyone elses in the world. sorry, i think thats horrid on an epic scale.

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    TheSexKitten
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    ^^^ Absolutely agreed.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    ^^^ can't dispute that (re value of American lives). The islamic terrorists generally agree as well, thus chopping off heads of US civilians taken captive in Iraq on camera using a machete with the same lack of regret as when killing US military personnel with roadside IED's !

    But hey look at the 'bright side'. There's no longer any reason to continue hunting for Osama Bin Laden. Thanks to the recent US Supreme Court ruling, if captured he would be presumed innocent under US civilian law and could drag his US civilian court appeals and newspaper coverage out until he dies of kidney failure !

    ... but back to the original topic ! "Where's the beef' so to speak ? The fact that an 'extreme' Human Rights advocacy group has leveed a bunch of charges immediately after the US Supreme Court ruling isn't surprising in the least. But under the same US civilian law which must now be used to cover captured terrorists during an 'undeclared' war, accusations and actual proof are two very different things.

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    Veteran Member LadyLuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    For those who want to pretend it isn't real, I remind you that abuse of some prisoners is also well documented by our government's own reports. It's real folks. Even if you continue to choose to stick you fingers in your ears and chant "not happening, not happening" that doesn't make it go away.


    I also find it downright disgusting to see some of the board's Neocon still defending and showing unconditional support these violations of military, domestic and international law.

    Even if you can't muster some sympathy for these people who by even the military's own admission are guilty of no crimes (and thus have been set free, albeit AFTER years of imprisonment and in many cases torture) I'd think you could at the very least show some contempt for the violations of military, domestic and international law.
    There never was a good war or a bad peace.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    this is the sad elitism of americans...we think our lives are worth more then anyone elses in the world. sorry, i think thats horrid on an epic scale.
    Right on!!! I totally agree







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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLuck View Post
    Even if you can't muster some sympathy for these people who by even the military's own admission are guilty of no crimes (and thus have been set free, albeit AFTER years of imprisonment and in many cases torture) I'd think you could at the very least show some contempt for the violations of military, domestic and international law.



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    Veteran Member LadyLuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    hopefully, when Osama Bin Laden hears about this, he'll target a different US city besides New York next time
    Wow. Simply unbelievable!

    Not only have you in the past couple of days written about how you plan to cast a vote with the express hopes of bringing about continued damage to our economy, then followed up with considering future investments in things you (incorrectly- thank goodness) claim will cause harm to the environment- butnow you are posting about WANTING to see a terrorist attack befall another US city besides NY too.

    Ofcourse if a liberal minded person were to make those kinds of statements you Neocons would be calling them guilty of treason, a crime punishable by death.Yet, for some reason it’s a-ok for a Neocon such as yourself to do such a horrid thing.


    There are just no words to describe the revolution I feel right now.

    PS- I think I am going to have to take a break from the site for awhile because I don't think I can contain the expletives I wish to hurl at the complete lack of even a sliver of humanity you and a few others around here exhibit.
    Last edited by LadyLuck; 06-18-2008 at 01:09 PM. Reason: adding a post script
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    Tauries
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLuck View Post
    PS- I think I am going to have to take a break from the site for awhile because I don't think I can contain the expletives I wish to hurl at the complete lack of even a sliver of humanity you and a few others around here exhibit.

    On no....please don't don't threaten us with a good time. While your obsessive and past the borderline psychotic ravings are a source of great humor on the board (at your expense of course...thanx we do appreciate ), your love of murderous terrorists and hatred of America and Jews is really uncool and frankly sickening. Wow....some morons have "proof" american soldiers dressed up terrorists in womens underwear and did nothing to prevent them from sodomizing themselves in their free time...I guess we should feel bad for not paying to have the camels they normally mate with flown in? Good luck and good riddance!!
    Last edited by Tauries; 06-18-2008 at 08:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Not only have you in the past couple of days written about how you plan to cast a vote with the express hopes of bringing about continued damage to our economy, then followed up with considering future investments in things you (incorrectly- thank goodness) claim will cause harm to the environment- butnow you are posting about WANTING to see a terrorist attack befall another US city besides NY too.
    you're a bit off base on your assumptions. #1 I considered casting a vote for Obama which I believe would cause short term damage to the US economy in exchange for a much greater long term improvement beginning after the 2012 election. The alternative would be to cast a vote for McCain which would cause lesser short term damage (but still damage), but with even more damage to follow beyond 2012.

    #2 I do consider that the 'damn the torpedoes' expansion of solar / wind / ethanol gov't subsidies WILL increase damage to the environment on a global basis, for the simple reason that the higher costs involved will motivate more businesses to leave the USA (where their pollution is presently tightly controlled) with that lost production capacity being replaced by new capacity in Asia (where their pollution is NOT controlled). I'm not 100% happy with this option, not only for the net environmental damage but also for the economic burden that my solar / wind / ethanol profits will indirectly place on other US taxpayers, US gasoline buyers etc. However, I can't think of any plausible scenario (before a 2012 Democrat housecleaning at any rate) that would serve to keep production in the USA in the face of rapidly rising taxes / environmental compliance costs / electricity costs / SSI costs to employers etc. that Obama is proposing. Therefore my investment decision along these lines falls into the 'if you can't beat 'em join 'em' category i.e. perhaps the gov't subsidized profits and tax credits I will receive from investing in solar / wind / ethanol will offset the higher capital gains taxes, state income taxes, local property taxes etc. that are about to be imposed as a result of Democratic expansion of social welfare spending at every level.

    Finally, I personally am not 'wishing' a terrorist attack on anyone. Arguably it is the US Supreme Court, and Barack Obama's position on national defense / dealing with 'terrorist' supporting countries etc. which will encourage another terrorist attack on US soil. If and when that happens, all I was hoping for is that New Yorkers wouldn't have to bear the brunt of such an attack 'alone' for a second time. Family / friends of the 9/11 victims, the good people of New York as a whole, New York taxpayers, and New York businesses all took a lot of 'collateral damage' as a result of the 9/11 attack. If other states are going to vote in a president and an even larger congressional majority which precipitates a second terrorist attack in response to their perceived weakness, then IMHO in fairness other states who elected them should directly share in the consequences of their election choices.

    I also find it downright disgusting to see some of the board's Neocon still defending and showing unconditional support these violations of military, domestic and international law.
    I am clearly not defending violations of military, domestic, and international law. However, as I have pointed out previously, the AOL news story consists of lots of allegations (from clearly biased / self-serving sources) but zero authoritative proof. Of course, like Dan Rather versus GWB, I am sure that some people are hoping that if they repeat these allegations long enough and loud enough that American voters will ASSUME they must be true. Personally, I'll withhold judgement until A - both sides are allowed to make their case in mainstream media, B - some non-forged documentation constituting authoritative proof of guilt emerges, or C - a US court indibts and convicts someone of these charges

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-18-2008 at 02:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    this is the sad elitism of americans...we think our lives are worth more then anyone elses in the world. sorry, i think thats horrid on an epic scale.
    Its only natural to think my life is worth more to me than anyone else's is to me. And LL, when Melonie says she let our economy suffer a little more now to hopefully lead to a quicker turnaround, it makes sense. Mccain will be bad but not as bad as Obama. the worst case scenario is McCain wins, fucks things up, loses in '12 to either the Abomination or the Witch and then we get them to finish destroying the country. I don't want to speak for her but i think she is thinking about what is best for the long term. Historically it would be like for voting for carter in '76 to bring about a leader like Reagan.

    Oh nad by the way, have you any idea how Muslims would treat women who worked in a strip club? Yet you paint America as the villain?
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Its only natural to think my life is worth more to me than anyone else's is to me
    and thats why you are a sad, sad man....scratch that your not a man. and youd certainly never be a hero. god i hope after that comment you have no children.

    Oh nad by the way, have you any idea how Muslims would treat women who worked in a strip club? Yet you paint America as the villain?
    i do and i have made good money of of them at work over my 6 years dancing. i even danced for an amish guy once. he was in his 60s. both religions were respectful. imagine that!

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    this is the sad elitism of americans...we think our lives are worth more then anyone elses in the world. sorry, i think thats horrid on an epic scale.
    Your statment sounds like the sad crap I hear from foreigners who don't know shit about what they're talking about.

    People in every country in the world think like this, it's called nationalism, it teared apart Europe for a few hundred years. And it's still rampant in every country in the world today. Try and understand something, every country is out to protect themselves, people for the most part, are out to protect themselves. This isn't an American idea, it's a people idea. "Better him than me" goes beyond borders.

    What people sometimes don't realize is that Americans take it to an extreme, for multiple reasons. The main being the fact that we're targets simply for being American, if people started going after innocent Costa Ricans, just because they were Costa Ricans, they'd probably be saying Costa Rica first as loud as they could.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    and thats why you are a sad, sad man....scratch that your not a man. and youd certainly never be a hero. god i hope after that comment you have no children.



    i do and i have made good money of of them at work over my 6 years dancing. i even danced for an amish guy once. he was in his 60s. both religions were respectful. imagine that!
    Amish are pacifists, so bold description... Imagine what that muslim guy would do to you (an probably has done to other women) in a place where laws didn't keep him from it...

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLuck View Post
    For those who want to pretend it isn't real, I remind you that abuse of some prisoners is also well documented by our government's own reports. It's real folks. Even if you continue to choose to stick you fingers in your ears and chant "not happening, not happening" that doesn't make it go away.


    I also find it downright disgusting to see some of the board's Neocon still defending and showing unconditional support these violations of military, domestic and international law.

    Even if you can't muster some sympathy for these people who by even the military's own admission are guilty of no crimes (and thus have been set free, albeit AFTER years of imprisonment and in many cases torture) I'd think you could at the very least show some contempt for the violations of military, domestic and international law.
    It's pretty damn easy sitting on a message board and decrying everything that is bad while at the same time you whine about how it's all one evil politicians fault. The questions on military domestic and international law are a whole nother debate, but I'm sure you could regurgitate whatever you read in "Hating Bush Monthly" on the subject, so I see no point.

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    Veteran Member LadyLuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Now that I have taken a couple hours to cool off and do something positive to cobat the negative stuff I was feeling so strongly this morning I can participate in a calm manner again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauries View Post
    your love of murderous terrorists and hatred of America and Jews is really uncool and frankly sickening. Wow....some morons have "proof" american soldiers dressed up terrorists in womens underwear and did nothing to prevent them from sodomizing themselves in their free time...I guess we should feel bad for not paying to have the camels they normally mate with flown in?
    This Army General would be one of the people you refer to as a moron.

    The two-star general who led an Army investigation into the horrific detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib has accused the Bush administration of war crimes and is calling for accountability


    As for your fabrication of me loving terrorist, hating Jewish people and other such nonsense. You couldn’t be more wrong. My husband and best friend are both of Jewish decent. Like them I oppose Zionism, as do many, many Jewish people around the world including in Israel itself.

    As per your hate America claim, it is my love of my country which leads me to my disaproval of the actions and policies of the Bush administration. I am far from alone in that either. Over 70% of our nations population agree with me. So if you want to say I hate America, then so does over 70% of Americans.

    Unbelievable that you say I am the sick one when it is you who defends torture. Even if you don’t believe what has occurred to be torture, it is by law defined as torture. I oppose torture. You defend torture. Enough said.

    The rest of your rant is pure racism and simply not worth further comment even though I could say so much in response, but I wouldn’t dare to lower myself to your level because as these wise words warn- be careful when fighting monsters lest you become one.
    There never was a good war or a bad peace.

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    Veteran Member LadyLuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    To Mel, I've been on your case more than enough lately so I'm gonna pass on responding to your post. I've not much more to add that I have not written before anyway.

    To Bem, I think you probably mean well but I find you misguided on a few subjects, sorry.
    There never was a good war or a bad peace.

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by i.breathe.in View Post
    and thats why you are a sad, sad man....scratch that your not a man. and youd certainly never be a hero. god i hope after that comment you have no children.


    I am a sad sad man because I believe in self-preservation? These people were not rounded up down at the local 7-Eleven and incarcerated for being Muslim. They were enemy combatants we had reason to believe had information relevant to national security. What should we have done? Scolded them? you just don't get it. These people's mission in life is to kill Americans whenever and wherever possible.

    You have a fucked-up defintion of heroism. I guess you characterize a hero as someone who does not do what is necessary to defend himself, his family, his friends, and his country from people trying to do them harm. Funny, I thought actions in the furtherance of that defense was the very definition of heroism.

    And the children comment is pretty stupid. based on our disparate attitudes, somehow or other, I think my kids would be safer with someone like me than your kids would be with someone like you.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLuck View Post
    To Bem, I think you probably mean well but I find you misguided on a few subjects, sorry.
    I feel the same way but I still have hope for you.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    And I'm sure you would all be reasonable enough to feel the exact same way if enemy countries or combatants were torturing american soldiers, tourists or aid workers. After all; they weren't rounded up at the 7-11 for being American. They likely have information that would save their lives. Etc. And therefore it is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I mean, why have we ever bothered with the international convention against torture or the international covenant of civil and political rights or the universal declaration of human rights at all? What reasonable person could think torture is wrong? Rights against it are a bad thing. I mean countries, and for that matter, terrorist cells, have to protect themselves and anyone who doesn't want to be tortured should know better than to be suspected for something - although they are never really told what that is.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Proof of torture at Gitmo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    And I'm sure you would all be reasonable enough to feel the exact same way if enemy countries or combatants were torturing american soldiers, tourists or aid workers. After all; they weren't rounded up at the 7-11 for being American. They likely have information that would save their lives. Etc. And therefore it is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I mean, why have we ever bothered with the international convention against torture or the international covenant of civil and political rights or the universal declaration of human rights at all? What reasonable person could think torture is wrong? Rights against it are a bad thing. I mean countries, and for that matter, terrorist cells, have to protect themselves and anyone who doesn't want to be tortured should know better than to be suspected for something - although they are never really told what that is.
    Was I dreaming every time I saw a news program reporting the beheading of a civilian in Iraq. Civilians who were, in fact, rounded up either for being American or for working with Americans?
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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