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Thread: Can the recession save us?

  1. #1
    Yekhefah
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    Can the recession save us?

    Maybe it's just because I'm in Portland, but I'm starting to like what I see when I go out. I've been reading about this sort of thing spreading, too. People are walking and riding bicycles, and moving into closer communities or out to farms. They're growing vegetables and herbs. They're buying ingredients and cooking real food. They're spending time at home with family more. Because of the walking, bicycling, and better food, they're getting healthier and in better shape. They're cutting back on unnecessary meds and unnecessary expenditures. In short... they're becoming better people and getting back down to things that matter.

    I see this more and more every day; I've been reading on it here and in the news. People resent Wal-Mart more and more each week, and are beginning to take an interest in where things come from. People are mobilizing against environmental destruction and globalization, and actually beginning to care about our economy. Rather than another war over high-priced gasoline, people are actually going greener and cutting back on consumption. Today I read that people are getting rid of things like gasoline-powered lawnmowers and getting good old-fashioned mechanical ones!

    Could this recession be the thing we needed? Is it possible that economic depression, while painful at first, could get us back on track socially and economically? Could it save our society from complete collapse? Can a shitty economy actually save America?

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Actually, that sounds very plausible from the way you described it. I really wish every city in America had good public transportation like they do in Europe and elsewhere. I loved living in countries that had trains. You don't need to have a car at all and could just ride your bike to the station and you're good to go. One can only dream...

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Portland has always had a tradition of being very progressive in this regard. I think it will take the rest of the country, namely some of the sprawling ashtray excuses we have for metropolitan areas to catch up, but hey I can dream.

    Nonetheless, a recession in the U.S. is still easier to contend with than what some countries can possibly offer as prosperity. Its easier for us to cut back when we have plenty of fat to cut.
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  4. #4
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    We're becoming more like Europe. I'm still waiting for our culture to trim the tacky fashion and bad food out of our lives. Then I'll be happy. LOL

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    Featured Member minnow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Another possible effect would be for housing prices to return to more sane levels. This of course is beneficial to buyers, not so beneficial to short term sellers who bought at peak.
    Still, I don't see US turning clock back to 19th century in regards to transportation. More like getting vehicles that you really NEED, not what you WANT, or think that you have to get to keep up with neighbor. How many people really NEED a giant SUV, or pickup truck?? Unless you're a farmer or builder, the answer for later is probably no.

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    I've noticed that our family is going more green too and I like it. I also genuinely believe this is the reason that I'm not materialistic anymore. We've been spending so much time at home as a family and it's my favorite thing. We don't go out to eat because I've been cooking and with everything being so expensive we just simply can't afford for me to go out shopping, and it's okay with me. Even after the economy improves I think, for my family at least, we will retain this same behavior.

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    It would be nice to see SOMETHING good come out of it

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Maybe it's just because I'm in Portland, but I'm starting to like what I see when I go out. I've been reading about this sort of thing spreading, too. People are walking and riding bicycles, and moving into closer communities or out to farms. They're growing vegetables and herbs. They're buying ingredients and cooking real food. They're spending time at home with family more. Because of the walking, bicycling, and better food, they're getting healthier and in better shape. They're cutting back on unnecessary meds and unnecessary expenditures. In short... they're becoming better people and getting back down to things that matter.

    I see this more and more every day; I've been reading on it here and in the news. People resent Wal-Mart more and more each week, and are beginning to take an interest in where things come from. People are mobilizing against environmental destruction and globalization, and actually beginning to care about our economy. Rather than another war over high-priced gasoline, people are actually going greener and cutting back on consumption. Today I read that people are getting rid of things like gasoline-powered lawnmowers and getting good old-fashioned mechanical ones!

    Could this recession be the thing we needed? Is it possible that economic depression, while painful at first, could get us back on track socially and economically? Could it save our society from complete collapse? Can a shitty economy actually save America?
    One thing I have noticed is that in the 90s through now we have become quite globalized. But, with the recession, etc; I tend to find that areas are being more regionalized again.

    Before you could get cheap air-fare and fly across the country and not think about it, now, that price has doubled? tripled? making it more restrictive.

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnow View Post
    Another possible effect would be for housing prices to return to more sane levels. This of course is beneficial to buyers, not so beneficial to short term sellers who bought at peak.
    Still, I don't see US turning clock back to 19th century in regards to transportation. More like getting vehicles that you really NEED, not what you WANT, or think that you have to get to keep up with neighbor. How many people really NEED a giant SUV, or pickup truck?? Unless you're a farmer or builder, the answer for later is probably no.
    minnow I'm sorry but you sound like an Obama government drone with delusions of power. Until my rights are legislated away, I will buy what I want to buy and can afford. It is up to me to determine what I NEED.

    FBR
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    Featured Member minnow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    No, FBR, people will reach that conclusion on their own. Nowhere did I state, insinuate, or otherwise suggest that such choices should be LEGISLATED. People vote with their pocketbooks, & history repeats itself. Recall how Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, etal, made serious inroads /gains in US auto market after 73-74, & 79-81 oil price shocks.

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnow View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    No, FBR, people will reach that conclusion on their own. Nowhere did I state, insinuate, or otherwise suggest that such choices should be LEGISLATED. People vote with their pocketbooks, & history repeats itself. Recall how Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, etal, made serious inroads /gains in US auto market after 73-74, & 79-81 oil price shocks.
    I tihnk to sum up the issue is that people need to take responcibilty formake purchases that they can afford, not, purchases that they can barely afford, and if there is a bump in their life they are sent scrambling.

  12. #12
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Well yes that, but there's also the fact that needs and wants are not the same. Just because you want it and you can afford it doesn't mean you need it. No, I'm not saying the government should legislate this stuff, but I think people may well regain a sense of ethics with regard to waste.

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Well yes that, but there's also the fact that needs and wants are not the same. Just because you want it and you can afford it doesn't mean you need it. No, I'm not saying the government should legislate this stuff, but I think people may well regain a sense of ethics with regard to waste.
    Yek you have been working hard to get your career established. I am surprised that you would dismiss my success by telling me the government should control it. I have been rooting for your success since day one. I would be happy if you some day made a post that you are making money hand over fist. I don't think many of us would begrudge you that.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

  14. #14
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    I just said the government should NOT legislate it. Did you read my post at all? I'm not talking about legislation, I'm talking about simple ethics.

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    Featured Member iambonbon05's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    I think in the end it's sort of a good thing. Price of gas sure is- people are finally getting serious about getting fuel efficient cars and other ways of getting around altogether. We could've had the technology years ago but it took a big kick in the wallet to get it going.

    Don't get me wrong, I hate filling up as much as the next person. I guess you could call me an optimist though.
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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by FBR View Post
    minnow I'm sorry but you sound like an Obama government drone with delusions of power. Until my rights are legislated away, I will buy what I want to buy and can afford. It is up to me to determine what I NEED.

    FBR
    Well, Some were chipped away today...Be careful what you say to that call center person in Pakistan. The government might be listening in. (okay, I know the senate still has to approve the new FISA bill, but the house approved it overwhelmingly).

    And yes, Yek, there is a shift of consciousness occurring. I've been feeling it, too. Even people like FBR would agree that if re-usable canvas grocery bags will help reduce his price at the pump, I'm sure he would bring his own to the grocery store, too. Oh, and the stores knock off anywhere from .05-.10 cents per bag the customer brings in himself.

    It is funny, but people aren't really all that depressed about the recession. It feels more like people have been offered a challenge, and they are delighted to participate. I have a carpool buddy to school and she is so happy that we are saving gas and parking by making sure our schedules match up.

    I'm watching my garden grow. I've harvested a grand total of 5 strawberries and a handful of blueberries, so far. My neighbors are proudly showing off their vegetable gardens and we are talking about exchanging fruits and veggies that the other isn't growing (I'll trade some cucumbers for some melons).I'm having a hard time keeping my hands off my baby lettuce. It just looks so yummy! I'll let it grow into full heads, though. Another farmer's market has opened closer to my house, and now I can visit a farmer's market 7 days a week within a 10 minute drive.

    The stores are full of canning supplies and equipment, and people are buying it. I've started scoping out wild blackberries and plan on nabbing as many of the free-growing-noxious-weed berries as I can get my hands on. You just can't kill the damn things! You should plan a trip to a railroad track near you, Yek, and get yourself some delicious free berries. They should be ready in 3 weeks (maybe sooner!). Any abandoned, unkempt meadow in Oregon has tons of blackberries every summer.

    I even made home made pizza. I made the dough and everything! I've been baking bread from scratch. FYI, Bread making is an excellent upper body workout. My bread ain't great, but I'll get better. The French toast and bread pudding is pretty good, even if the bread is blah.

    I'm babbling. Sorry. I'm happier and more balanced than I've ever been in my life, and having high end possessions has absolutely nothing to with how happy I feel. (I don't have a lot of fancy "stuff". Well, none actually) I feel in touch with my environment and the people around me. I think about my planetary impact of what I do, what I buy, how I live. A small discomfort is better addressed by a simple solution than a complicated one. It got a bit warm today, and instead of turning on the A/C I simply removed my clothes and moved into a cool shady spot in my house. Problem solved, no electricity needed!

    Thanks for this post, Yek. I know I'm not crazy, but it is nice to know that other people are feeling a shift in attitude, too.


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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    i love communitarianism (the idea that you get your resources primarily from your community, particularly energy and food, but also social services like childcare and schooling and aid for people in transition (jobless/etc), all done through private community-based efforts).

    it's basically taking today's technology to make some of the good old traditions more viable. so i don't mind the localisation, though it will erode variety and cheap air travel.

    there are risks, though. people being more provincial and prejudiced, which was a problem in the old way of being community-focused.

    the recession is going to be a depression, and i don't think localising is saving folks, but rather keeping fewer from going off the rails in major ways.

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    Default Re: Can the recession save us?

    Ironically, at the 'community' level, socioeconomics draws both ends of the spectrum to form a circle at the local level Liberals and Conservatives alike are growing / preserving / preparing their own food. Liberals and Conservatives alike are taking personal initiative to supplement their energy needs, whether it be via wood stoves and generators or windmills and solar panels. Pretty soon the only way we'll be able to tell the difference between 'post-hippie' liberals and bunker mentality conservatives will be the deer carcasses hanging from tree limbs and the barbed wire around the property line.

    Unfortunately, the same will never happen on a larger scale.

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