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Thread: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food $

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    Default first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food $

    (snip)"ELIZABETH, Colorado: Suddenly, the economics of American suburban life are under assault as skyrocketing energy prices inflate the costs of reaching, heating and cooling homes on the outer edges of metropolitan areas.

    Just off Singing Hills Road, in one of hundreds of two-story homes dotting a former cattle ranch beyond the southern fringes of Denver, Phil Boyle and his family openly wonder if they will have to move close to town to get some relief.

    They still revel in the space and quiet that has drawn a steady exodus from U.S. cities toward places like this for more than half a century. Their living room ceiling soars two stories high. A swing-set sways in the breeze in their backyard. Their wrap-around porch looks out over the flat scrub of the high plains to the snow-capped peaks of the Rocky Mountains.

    But life on the distant fringes of suburbia is beginning to feel untenable. Boyle and his wife must drive nearly an hour to their jobs in the high-tech corridor of southern Denver. With gasoline at more than $4 a gallon, Boyle recently paid $121 to fill his pickup truck with diesel. The price of propane to heat their spacious house has more than doubled in recent years.

    Though Boyle finds city life unappealing, it's now up for reconsideration."(snip)

    (snip)"As the realization takes hold that rising energy prices are less a momentary blip than a restructuring with lasting consequences, the high cost of fuel is threatening to slow the decades-old migration away from cities, while exacerbating the housing downturn by diminishing the appeal of larger homes set far from urban jobs.

    In Atlanta, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Minneapolis, homes beyond the urban core have been falling in value faster than those within, according to analysis by Moody's Economy.com.

    In Denver, housing prices in the urban core rose steadily from 2003 until late last year compared with previous years, before dipping nearly 5 percent in the past three months of last year, according to Economy.com. But house prices in the suburbs began falling earlier, in the middle of 2006, and then accelerated, dropping by 7 percent the past three months of the year.

    Many factors have propelled the unraveling of U.S. real estate, from the mortgage crisis to a staggering excess of home construction, making it hard to pinpoint the impact of any single force. But economists and real estate agents are growing convinced that the rising cost of energy is a primary factor pushing home prices down in the suburbs - particularly in the outer rings.

    More than three-fourths of prospective homebuyers are more inclined to live in an urban area because of fuel prices, according to a recent survey of 903 real estate agents with Coldwell Banker, a national brokerage.

    Some proclaim the unfolding demise of suburbia.

    "Many low-density suburbs and McMansion subdivisions, including some that are lovely and affluent today, may become what inner cities became in the 1960s and '70s - slums characterized by poverty, crime and decay," said Christopher Leinberger, an urban land use expert, in a recent essay in the Atlantic Monthly."(snip)

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/...ess/exurbs.php

    (snip)"ELIZABETH, Colorado: Suddenly, the economics of American suburban life are under assault as skyrocketing energy prices inflate the costs of reaching, heating and cooling homes on the outer edges of metropolitan areas.

    Just off Singing Hills Road, in one of hundreds of two-story homes dotting a former cattle ranch beyond the southern fringes of Denver, Phil Boyle and his family openly wonder if they will have to move close to town to get some relief.

    They still revel in the space and quiet that has drawn a steady exodus from U.S. cities toward places like this for more than half a century. Their living room ceiling soars two stories high. A swing-set sways in the breeze in their backyard. Their wrap-around porch looks out over the flat scrub of the high plains to the snow-capped peaks of the Rocky Mountains.

    But life on the distant fringes of suburbia is beginning to feel untenable. Boyle and his wife must drive nearly an hour to their jobs in the high-tech corridor of southern Denver. With gasoline at more than $4 a gallon, Boyle recently paid $121 to fill his pickup truck with diesel. The price of propane to heat their spacious house has more than doubled in recent years.

    Though Boyle finds city life unappealing, it's now up for reconsideration."(snip)

    (snip)"As the realization takes hold that rising energy prices are less a momentary blip than a restructuring with lasting consequences, the high cost of fuel is threatening to slow the decades-old migration away from cities, while exacerbating the housing downturn by diminishing the appeal of larger homes set far from urban jobs.

    In Atlanta, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Minneapolis, homes beyond the urban core have been falling in value faster than those within, according to analysis by Moody's Economy.com.

    In Denver, housing prices in the urban core rose steadily from 2003 until late last year compared with previous years, before dipping nearly 5 percent in the past three months of last year, according to Economy.com. But house prices in the suburbs began falling earlier, in the middle of 2006, and then accelerated, dropping by 7 percent the past three months of the year.

    Many factors have propelled the unraveling of U.S. real estate, from the mortgage crisis to a staggering excess of home construction, making it hard to pinpoint the impact of any single force. But economists and real estate agents are growing convinced that the rising cost of energy is a primary factor pushing home prices down in the suburbs - particularly in the outer rings.

    More than three-fourths of prospective homebuyers are more inclined to live in an urban area because of fuel prices, according to a recent survey of 903 real estate agents with Coldwell Banker, a national brokerage.

    Some proclaim the unfolding demise of suburbia.

    "Many low-density suburbs and McMansion subdivisions, including some that are lovely and affluent today, may become what inner cities became in the 1960s and '70s - slums characterized by poverty, crime and decay," said Christopher Leinberger, an urban land use expert, in a recent essay in the Atlantic Monthly."(snip)
    I'm starting to wonder if there isn't an entire school of thought that wants this to happen. Mayor Bloomberg recently said gasoline ought to be permitted to go to $5 a gallon and gasoline taxes ought to be INCREASED to discourage consumption. the Democrats have come up with NOTHING to increase supply and some are downright giddy about the current situation. Many seem intent on forcing the white middle class back into the inner city to "broaden the tax base" i.e. provide a bigger pocket to pick.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    ^^^ actually there are a whole bunch of 'corrolaries' along the lines Michael Bloomberg was following ...

    - middle class wage-earners moving within the city limits makes them subject to city income taxes

    - republicans moving to a city with an 80-20 democratic majority effectively have their votes cancelled out.

    - people with libertarian leanings moving to a city suddenly find that gun control laws, zoning ordinances, business regulation ordinances, 'public health' ordinances etc. will severely limit their liberties.

    - borderline low income wage-earners moving to a city will probably find themselves facing a much higher cost of living, but also facing the availability of a variety of gov't provided social welfare benefits to help them deal with that higher cost of living (i.e. rent subsidies, utility subsidies, transportation subsidies etc.) ... effectively making them dependent on the continuation / expansion of social welfare programs thus more supportive of politicians that promote / back such programs.


    However, this sidesteps the fact that rising energy costs are making the traditional suburban lifestyle unaffordable for an increasing number of American wage-earners.

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    You know a lot of people are talking about this Mel. Although It makes me feel for those who choose not to take in the real view of this crisis.
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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    Although It makes me feel for those who choose not to take in the real view of this crisis.
    Well don't get too choked up. Two large segments of the population don't seem to be worried at all. I'm speaking of the 'rich', who are essentially unaffected by another $100 a week worth of gasoline and another $100 a week worth of food versus their $5000 a week income. The other is the 'poor' i.e. those who are eligible for existing and newly proposed social welfare programs which provide utility bill subsidies, heating oil subsidies, food subsidies etc. whose benefits will be increased along with rising costs - and many of whom also don't have to worry about buying gasoline to get to a job.

    But indeed many suburban working class people are really 'hitting the wall' in regard to the rising cost of energy and food now absorbing virtually all of their 'disposable' incomes. There's a news story at telling the story of 'mom' being so tapped out buying gas to commute to work that she had to give up cable tv for her daughters. There are tons of other anecdotal stories about people being forced to give up Starbucks, restaurant meals, and other non-essential items from lap dances to lawn mowing services. Considering the huge percentage of the US economy that now relies on providing 'services' instead of 'producing' goods, the potential downhill snowball effect could be startling. For example, I wouldn't want to count on job security in a suburban shopping mall the way things are changing !

    Additionally, state and local gov't budget deficits are now beginning to stand out like proverbial sore thumbs with new fiscal years coming into effect. Since state and local gov'ts are mandated to balance their budgets, the already strapped suburban working Americans are about to get plowed with substantial property tax increases, sales tax increases, school tax increases, income tax increases etc. which will only exacerbate existing problems. But hey somebody has to pay for the tax free 'revenue anticipation' municipal bond interest being collected by the 'rich', and somebody has to pay for the social welfare benefits for the 'poor'.

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    large segments of the population don't seem to be worried at all. I'm speaking of the 'rich', who are essentially unaffected by another $100 a week worth of gasoline and another $100 a week worth of food versus their $5000 a week income.
    I really don't think there are too many of those people running around these days.
    There never was a good war or a bad peace.

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLuck View Post
    I really don't think there are too many of those people running around these days.

    Yet you see so many people running around, with the new chanel watch. But I know there is a concern about the rich. it seems that a lot of them have to re-think there investments. or change to fit the inflation that is going on now! To maintain their lifestyle.
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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    Some of the above "themes & assumptions" are faulty, because they assume that EVERYTHING is centered around big city. Not entirely so- I see a lot of corporate workplaces/buildings in the so-called suburbs. Sometimes, its a concrete "blurb" from 1 major city to another. For example, Washington DC to Baltimore MD, with most of it in between "suburbs". More if you count South VA suburbs out to Mannasas/Quantico. Metro rail goes out 30 miles from downtown, BART system (San Francisco area) goes out a lot farther(easily 50 miles. Maybe article "meant" people living outside Frederick MD & in WV commuting to govt. jobs. Doesn't even mention LA & Orange county areas, where several businesses have workforces, outside downtown LA.
    It would hit those living >25 miles from work, due to more sane housing prices outside urban areas. Those that would experience a double "Catch 22". Its a squeeze deciding between taking/finding a house that one could afford significantly closer to work, yet not take a lower paying job closer to "home".

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    I really don't think there are too many of those people running around these days.
    It all depends on how you look at the question I suppose. In the general American population, yes households with $5000 a week = $250k per year in (combined) income are something like 3% of the population. However, in big cities like (greater) New York or Chicago or San Francisco, that percentage can rise to well above 10%. And if you confine your analysis to the US congress, i.e. the people who are actually making the binding decisions that affect (rising) energy and food prices, the percentage rises to virtually 100%.


    As to minnow's point, yes there are may cities where mass transit and other city 'services' extend a fair distance into neighboring communities. The northern NJ and CT extensions of New York City mass transit are another example. However, almost without exception, these suburbs are NOT in the same sort of financial danger because by definition these suburban residents are able to sidestep a large degree of rising energy costs thanks to the very availability of that (subsidized) mass transit, and are also earning their living via a high paying job in the big city already. Undoubtedly the suburbs being referred to in the news story are those that require a lengthy commute in a personal vehicle, i.e. those suburbs that don't have (and never will have) effective mass transit available, those suburbs that also don't have large industries / businesses / gov't institutions in their midst to provide tens of thousands of relatively good paying local jobs etc.

    It would hit those living >25 miles from work, due to more sane housing prices outside urban areas
    arguably, the availability of (subsidized) mass transit, thus the ability to commute to a good paying job in the city in a reasonable amount of time at a reasonable price, along with the availability of nearby large industries / businesses / gov't institutions that provide relatively high paying jobs, are major contributing factors as to why housing prices in these inner suburbs went 'INsane' in the first place ! This also explains why housing prices in these inner suburbs has not declined to anywhere near the same degree as has happened in other suburbs - where commuting demands a personal vehicle, and where the average pay rate for available local jobs is far lower.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-26-2008 at 01:30 AM.

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    I want $5,000 a week. How do I get it?
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSeeker View Post
    ^Pssssttttt, your stripper is showing.

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    ^^^ a few possibilities ...

    marry a rich guy

    work full time in different upscale strip clubs (travelling with the 'season')

    make several very smart (and correct) investments in a row

    escort part time

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    I don't know anyone making that kind of money at a young age. I know a few who do but they have 30+ years of experience and work hours behind them. Maybe if you have an exceptional and rare talent but that is a long shot and I personally don't know anyone like that.

    $100 is so easily blown on so many different things I don't think it will sway people much.

    But I do think that our option to commute long distances via automobile is an amazing luxury we easily take for granted. Many people in the world don't have this option and either are forced to work closer to home, or move to where the work is.

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    Default Re: first news report ... suburban life becoming untenable due to high energy / food

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008062...t-a7ad41d.html

    ^^^^^Heres another add on

    I wonder how low are we on oil?
    If you want the present to be differant from the past, study the past.
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    It is what it is, not what you want it to become, that's important -- at least for now. Today, remember that things worth having are worth waiting for!
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