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Thread: Presidential Election Discussion

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    Default Presidential Election Discussion

    I thought it'd be nice to get a discussion going about this years election. Honestly I've voted in one election and feel like I was not properly informed enough to make a decision. i don't want that this election.

    I'm not too fond of either candidate this election, but I felt the same way the last election.

    What are your thoughts? (Let's keep this civil, my goal for this thread is educational/good debate, not tearing down each other)

    Also, as I'd like to become informed, what are some good suggestions for websites that can help me in this department? I've never been educated/interested in politics, so I have no idea where to start.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraViolet View Post

    I'm not too fond of either candidate this election, but I felt the same way the last election.
    What about them are you not fond of? It should be more than just personality reasons.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Is that really you Cinn??

    I guess I'm not sure! All I have to go off of is what has been talked about by other people. I need my own opinion.

    I guess it sounds like neither candidate is very interested in pulling us out of this slump (recession) we're in. maybe that's my impression because I'm uninformed?

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    LOL yea, sorry. I was waiting on PM's to hit me back and I got tempted at your thread so I posted.

    I actually appreciate the fact that you know you're misinformed and you're trying to gain more knowledge. With that being said, I really don't think the views/opinions of posters on SW is going to sway your decision anymore than what your friends are telling you..

    Have you ever watched MSNBC.com <---AWESOME POLITICAL COVERAGE!

    http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com/ <--A FUN quiz on who you should vote for

    http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm <---Issues Barack Stands for

    http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/john_mccain.htm <--Issues John McCain stands for.

    Personally, I'm voting for Obama!!







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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Thanks.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Let me ask you this:

    What Issue is very important to you?

    Gay Rights, Abortion, Gas/Oil, Retirement, Homeownership, Civil Rights, Immigration, etc?

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Gas, abortion, gay rights, animal rights, and the war. Those are pretty important to me. Homeownership doesn't mean much to me yet because I haven't owned one yet.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Issues: Gay/Lesbian Rights

    Barack Obama: Gay/Lesbian Rights:http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesb...arackObama.htm

    Barack Obama in the United States Senate:
    Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens.

    Barack Obama scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard. Here's how HRC rated

    Barack Obama on Hate Crimes:

    Barack Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes laws to include crimes perpetrated because of sexual orientation and gender identity.

    Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Gays in the Military:

    Barack Obama believes we need to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."

    John McCain: Gay/Lesbian Rights: http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesb...JohnMcCain.htm

    Employment Non-Discrimination::

    John McCain does not support a federal non-discrimination law that would outlaw job discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

    Same-Sex Marriage:

    John McCain does not support same-sex marriage. From his website, " The family represents the foundation of Western Civilization and civil society and John McCain believes the institution of marriage is a union between one man and one woman. It is only this definition that sufficiently recognizes the vital and unique role played by mothers and fathers in the raising of children, and the role of the family in shaping, stabilizing, and strengthening communities and our nation."

    However, he opposes a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Issues: The Iraq War http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/...nObamaIraq.htm

    Barack Obama: Positions:

    Obama's position on the "surge" and the progress being made by the Iraqi government are quite the opposite of McCain's. "The goal of the surge was to create space for Iraq's political leaders to reach an agreement to end Iraq's civil war. At great cost, our troops have helped reduce violence in some areas of Iraq, but even those reductions do not get us below the unsustainable levels of violence of mid-2006. Moreover, Iraq's political leaders have made no progress in resolving the political differences at the heart of their civil war," says the candidate's statement.


    John McCain: Positions:

    McCain supports the "surge" and the counterinsurgency methods of General David Petraeus. McCain says Iraq's political order is "evolving in positive and hopeful ways" but more prgoress is needed. McCain also calls for greater international investment in Iraq.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Neither one of these guys is gonna fix one single major problem we are facing. None of our problems can be fixed unless the underlying fundamentals are fixed first - our monetary policy, lack of oversight at all levels, the coupling between private industry and our legislators, and the corruption that has become systemic in just about every one of our govt agencies from the DEA to the FDA.

    Our country is being financially ransacked as fast as the perpetrators can haul the cash outta here, and our democracy is being trounced by a wide open spigot filling the pockets of our legislators. All the wedge issues in the world are not gonna stop it, not gay marriage, not education, not healthcare, civil right, or any other rights. The politicians know this.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondChance View Post
    Neither one of these guys is gonna fix one single major problem we are facing. None of our problems can be fixed unless the underlying fundamentals are fixed first - our monetary policy, lack of oversight at all levels, the coupling between private industry and our legislators, and the corruption that has become systemic in just about every one of our govt agencies from the DEA to the FDA.

    Our country is being financially ransacked as fast as the perpetrators can haul the cash outta here, and our democracy is being trounced by a wide open spigot filling the pockets of our legislators. All the wedge issues in the world are not gonna stop it, not gay marriage, not education, not healthcare, civil right, or any other rights. The politicians know this.
    Wow, just wow!! Nice to have another person with a clue on this board.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    We are in the middle of bullshitting season, and it will get even deeper as we get closer to the election.

    What you should be looking at UltraViolet is what is happening locally. The presidential election, although important and entertaining, will have very little impact on you personally. Local politics will make a world of difference for you personally, though.

    I'm sure you'll come to a decision on who you would rather see as president by the time November rolls around. There is a lot of time left, still. No need to rush to a decision.

    But start looking into local issues that are going to directly affect you. Local representatives in Washington will have great sway on what happens in your state. State bills and initiatives will make a huge dfference in your life more than anything coming from the white house.

    Relax on making a decision for the presidency. You'll make up your mind before you enter that voting booth. It is the local stuff that is the most important to focus on.


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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondChance View Post
    Neither one of these guys is gonna fix one single major problem we are facing. None of our problems can be fixed unless the underlying fundamentals are fixed first - our monetary policy, lack of oversight at all levels, the coupling between private industry and our legislators, and the corruption that has become systemic in just about every one of our govt agencies from the DEA to the FDA.

    Our country is being financially ransacked as fast as the perpetrators can haul the cash outta here, and our democracy is being trounced by a wide open spigot filling the pockets of our legislators. All the wedge issues in the world are not gonna stop it, not gay marriage, not education, not healthcare, civil right, or any other rights. The politicians know this.
    Yep. I'd also like to add that I believe that our lawmakers are being held hostage to many of these special interest groups and lobbyists. If Senator A doesn't include money for Corporation B in his bill, Corporation B will leave Senator A's state and put a whole bunch of people out of work, resulting in the Senator being kicked out of office.

    I don't have an answer for this situation. It is so out of control, and we are at the mercy of those who are rich and powerful. That is main reason why I suggested UV focus on local politics. That is where any real change is going to have to come from.


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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    I understand what you're trying to do here ultraviolet, but frankly I think you're in the wrong place to LEARN. Asking on here will just get you one sided opinions, and doubletalk from people pumping up there on choice. Cinnamon made McCain look pretty bad, but most of that is spin and I could do the exact same thing with Obama. If you actually want to learn, go out and read on the internet, see what both candidates are trying to say, and if you can try and wade throught all the bullshit (it gets hard).

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    WOW, thanks for that Cinn!

    And Jester: I understand where your coming from. I didn't really expect to learn everything from here, just getting a "jumping off" point. I also visit this place more than any other place, and since I'm pretty busy and don't see a lot of people IRL, I figured this was a good place to discuss. And the wading through the bullshit DOES seem to be a problem...how do you know the info you find isn't just some biased opinion?

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    As posted elsewhere, I also intend to vote for Obama in the upcoming election.

    My reasons for this are -

    A - many of McCain's policies are just as 'dangerous' or 'irresponsible' as Obama's, thus a McCain presidency really wouldn't solve any of America's major problems

    B - no third party candidate ... even if there WAS a third party candidate offering policies that weren't also 'dangerous' or 'irresponsible' ... has any chance of winning the election

    C - if the Democrats are allowed to have full control of the US gov't for four years, i.e. Obama as president, a filibuster proof Senate majority, and a big majority in the house, then there will be no obstacles to the full implementation of Democratic policies. However, when the 2012 election rolls around, American voters should be hurting so bad in the pocketbook as the result of these Democratic policies being implemented that they'll truly be ready to 'throw the bums out'. With the Democrats having no republicans or neocons in power which they could attempt to blame the results of Democratic policies on, Democrats would then face the full consequences of their tax and spend policies. As a result, like Jimmy Carter making possible the election of Ronald Reagan, there would be a REAL chance for positive political change in 2012 !

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    So....it's going to get much worse before it gets better? Nice.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    ^^^ well in my scenario at least things stand a chance of getting better after 2012. Electing McCain but leaving Democratic majorities in the Senate and House would still allow a lot of Democratic policies to be enacted, but the damaging effects could then be blamed on the Republican president - thus things would probably continue getting worse and worse through 2012 and beyond, albeit at a slower pace.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I understand what you're trying to do here ultraviolet, but frankly I think you're in the wrong place to LEARN. Asking on here will just get you one sided opinions, and doubletalk from people pumping up there on choice. Cinnamon made McCain look pretty bad, but most of that is spin and I could do the exact same thing with Obama. If you actually want to learn, go out and read on the internet, see what both candidates are trying to say, and if you can try and wade throught all the bullshit (it gets hard).
    These are his issues lol...of course they look bad.

    That's funny..

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Neither candidate can fix the economy. Hell, even economists exist in different camps as to how and to what degree things influence it. There is no single correct course. They are like weathermen. The president's policies can nudge the economy up or, unfortunately, drive it off a cliff.

    If the Dems get 60 seats in the Senate, I'd almost go for McCain, as I'm not opposed to a little gridlock. But this election for me is about potential Supreme Court nominees. McCain has promised to nominate more judges in the Scalia-Thomas mold. I haven't heard Obama address this yet, but it would seem any type of a centrist would be a long shot, but a crazy liberal is preferable to seeing the court with a solid, young, socially conservative majority.

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    I'm not hugely political, but I use www.factcheck.org to start investigating candidate voting history,etc.

    I agree completely with Paris. Local government affects me personally far more than national.

    I always investigate all local candidates on the ticket, even the judges, etc. I spend a lot of time reading up on it, googling, etc, so I can make the right decisions.






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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    I found this article very interesting on how to be a better voter, especially the Godfather Test:

    http://www.parade.com/articles/editi...29-2008/2Voter

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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraViolet View Post
    So....it's going to get much worse before it gets better? Nice.
    Just keep in mind that Melonie is a "glass half empty" kind of person. I won't say pessimist, just a worst-case-scenario imaganist.

    If you look at the data available, the parts of the nation that are democratically inclined also have more stable economies, better education opportunities and higher median incomes. The conservative regions have a larger wage gap with lots of poor people, and a few very rich.

    I know that Melonie will counter with the California example, but southern California is very conservative. It is northern California where all the liberals are (and strangely enough, the standard of living in NorCal is much better than that if SoCal).


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    Default Re: Presidential Election Discussion

    ^^^ arguably, the reason that the economies of 'Blue' states tend to be more stable is that these states have a higher percentage of public sector employment / gov't contractor employment ... which is actually paid for (in part) by taxes collected in 'Red' states ! Also there are glaring counter-examples, like for instance Michigan. Of course the fact that California businesses were awarded 39 billion dollars worth of gov't spending in 2007 while Michigan only received 5 billion may have something to do with that !!!

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