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Thread: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

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    Default Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    I tried to go into work last night but ended up leaving in tears. The management was different from the previous night & their policies were different, too. Since I'm *brand new* to dancing & the only two nights I've worked I've made no more than $30 profit after tip-outs (and the club has been "slow"), the house mom & V.I.P. podium dude waived my house fee (which would have been $60, meaning that by the end of working a 6-hour shift, not only would I have made no money, I would have paid $30 out of my pocket to the house. Essentially I'd be paying them for the privilege of dancing at their club while not even earning any money.). Both nights I worked were slow, and even the dancers who'd been there awhile were complaining that no one was spending.


    But I wanted to stick it out & keep trying. Last night there was a different house mom & podium man. They demanded that I pay the house fee of $60 before checking in to begin work. I told them that yesterday the other mom told me that if a dancer does not earn a certain amount of money that the management can waive the house fee. They said that was up to the particular management team working at the time, and that even then management only does that for a dancer who'd only worked once or twice. More or less they were saying that I was on my own.

    I told them that I completely understood having to pay house rent & that I appreciated the comfort & security that the house provided. However, I said, since I hadn't even earned $60 total profit during any of my shifts at their club, I did not feel comfortable paying the house fee. I mentioned that in my contract it stipulated that I should approach the management with a formal complaint should I at any point make less money working for them than the going minimum-wage rate. My first night I worked 6 hours and earned (after tip-outs) a total of $18. My second night I worked 6 hours and earned $30. Both of these earning values reflect a wage significantly below the going-rate.

    They said that I did not have the same rights as a minimum-wage employee because I was a contractor. They told me that I must pay the house fee, regardless of whether or not I earned enough money in the house to make it back. I asked them if they were familiar with fair labor laws & they told me to get out. I asked them for a copy of my contract, and they said 'So sorry, but it's terminated now. We don't know where it is. It doesn't exist." At which point I complimented them on their moral business dealings and told them they'd be hearing from me.

    Advice, please?

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Is This Legal?

    No, it's not legal. But you won't find any authorities who give a shit. Just find another club.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal?

    is what legal? them expecting you to pay your house fee? it isnt their fault you didnt make money. you may be brand new so you should probably get used to that. that makes sense, that its up to the manager and it isnt an everyday thing that you dont pay if you dont make money.

    they most likely CAN terminate your contract for whatever reason they want. did you read it? i'm going to guess you probably didn't read it all that carefully. you have to pay house fee. sucks but oh well.

    also - you do not have the same rights as an employee. you ARE an independant contractor.

    eta: sorry i see you changed the title. is it legal for them not to show you your contract? maybe not. but they arent paying you, so again, how much money you make isnt their problem. min wage or not. you are not an employee.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    In a way, I sympathize with you. It's a sucky situation. Making $48 for two days worth of work is horrible.

    On the other hand I want to say - just get over it. This is how strip clubs work. If you don't make enough for house fees and tip outs on a consistend basis then this is not the job for you.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elusive21 View Post
    If you don't make enough for house fees and tip outs on a consistend basis then this is not the job for you.
    Since I've only ever danced twice--and both times were on slow nights--I have no way of knowing whether or not I'd make money on a consistent basis. Which is why I'm going to heed Yekhefah's advice and find a different club that actually pulls in customers.

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    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by andwine View Post
    I asked them if they were familiar with fair labor laws & they told me to get out. I asked them for a copy of my contract, and they said 'So sorry, but it's terminated now. We don't know where it is. It doesn't exist." At which point I complimented them on their moral business dealings and told them they'd be hearing from me.

    Advice, please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by andwine View Post
    Since I've only ever danced twice--and both times were on slow nights--I have no way of knowing whether or not I'd make money on a consistent basis. Which is why I'm going to heed Yekhefah's advice and find a different club that actually pulls in customers.
    it has nothing to do with customers. all it takes is one. youre NEW. dont expect to make a lot.

    i'm sorry, but it's really annoying to me that you seem to have the attitude that the club shouldnt get paid if you dont make money. it is not THEIR fault. anywhere you go youre going to have bad nights. ask girls who have been doing this a long time. ask girls who work in major cities. youre going to leave with shitty nights and in the negative on occasion (if youre lucky it wont be often, but it HAPPENS) and you still have to pay that house fee. whether its that night, or it rolls over. deal with it.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    hahaha to the serious^^

    You're a dancer; you know as well as I do that $3.00/hour is not a fair price-tag for this sort of labor.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    yes i am a dancer and i do know that as well as you do. but look around. make a poll, if you don't believe me. i make bank, thank you very much. and i still have bad nights. and girls who don't hustle as hard as i do have them more often.

    regardless, you still pay house fee. if you dont like that, don't be a stripper. that is the way it works. good luck finding a club that you dont have to pay if you dont make money.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    I agree that $3.00 an hour isn't fair, which is what you seem to be stuck on. Of course it isn't fair - that's why this is a good lesson in how this industry works.

    Sometimes you can hustle all day working really hard and go home with $50; other days you can put the same amount of time and effort in and go home with $500. Fair? No. But that's just the way it is.

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    God/dess anomar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    High risk, high returns. Find another club!

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    ..and post a review of this one...

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    No, it's not legal and that is why when you questioned it they said to get lost. They know it isn't legal. But as dancers this is something we accept and yes sometimes it sucks! When dealing with a situation like this one it is best to cut your losses and move on to another club or if needed job.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Welcome to the Wonderful World of stripping, where nothing is fair and you're never in the right.

    Seriously, unless you can handle things being really inconsistent and unfair and having it thrown in your face as absolute truth by managers, bouncers, DJs, etc this job is not for you. It's like the old Wild West and you have to watch out for #1, know how to properly break the rules , and not expect anyone to help you out BECAUSE EVERYONE IS OUT FOR THEMSELVES AND DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. The law does not care about strippers. I once wanted to leave early because the club was dead, and was denied that request. When I stated that I was an independent contractor and could come and go as I please, I was informed that the last girl who brought that up was fired. Could I sue for that? I would be laughed out of court.

    We have so very few legal rights as far as our labor goes, but no one cares because in the eyes of the law we all are apparently millionaire hookers who claim $10,000 on our taxes and collect welfare and foodstamps for shits and giggles.

    We have all the responsibilities and rules of employees, and none of the benefits of a true independent contractor or employee. They have no responsibility or accountability towards us. None.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by andwine View Post
    hahaha to the serious^^

    You're a dancer; you know as well as I do that $3.00/hour is not a fair price-tag for this sort of labor.
    Yep. $3.00 an hour is not acceptable. But it is your job to make more than $3 an hour. It's not the clubs fault, and you can't offset responsibility on them.

    While you may benefit from switching clubs, you will really benefit from an attitude adjustment. Your first post in this thread features an interaction with your managers that makes you come off as incredibly arrogant. Note: being a know-it-all punk won't get you very far in the strip club. Bringing up labor laws and all that jazz will not endear you in the eyes of managers, staff, or other dancers. In essence you are just shooting yourself in the foot.

    I wasn't making crazy bank when I first started dancing either. You know what helped me? Talking to other dancers at the club, watching how they worked, how they danced, getting tips and advice. I read SW-Hustle Hut religiously, and I came into work expecting a challenge rather than assuming an air of entitlement.

    Cut your losses, I doubt this club will hire you back now. Find a new place and take my advice... knock yourself down a few pegs and listen, take advice, be observant, etc. Don't lecture your managers about fair labor laws, don't act like you're the smartest being in the room. Really absorb the environment, the atmosphere, and LEARN what works & what doesn't (that goes for dealing with dancers, custies, and management).

    Good Luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    ^ i rarely agree with you but i find myself reading your posts and going "yup!" more often lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zia_Abq View Post
    No, it's not legal and that is why when you questioned it they said to get lost. They know it isn't legal. But as dancers this is something we accept and yes sometimes it sucks! When dealing with a situation like this one it is best to cut your losses and move on to another club or if needed job.
    i'm curious, what part isn't legal? i'm assuming you mean the refusal to show her her contract. because how much she makes is not. their. problem. and has nothing to do with the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    I once wanted to leave early because the club was dead, and was denied that request. When I stated that I was an independent contractor and could come and go as I please, I was informed that the last girl who brought that up was fired. Could I sue for that? I would be laughed out of court.
    that makes me think of the other night after work. the manager is talking to us, and saying girls need to quit calling out. he's worked in the bar business before most of us were born blah blah blah, and he's never seen so many employees call out or not show up. i bit my tongue, but inside my head i was screaming "but we're not employees!" but that's the trade off we accept for the positive things we get from the job.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    ^ i rarely agree with you but i find myself reading your posts and going "yup!" more often lately.
    Ditto!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Yes, its legal! You are not an "employee" you are an independent contractor. Your house fee is just that....a fee that you pay to work in the club, for the bouncers, the advertising the customers they brought in.

    I understand being new to dancing, but you don't have the right attitude or understanding of this business. You do NOT work for the club, you work for yourself essentially, kay? So wether you make 1000 dollars or no dollars, you were still there, you had the bouncers, etc, and you owe your house fee.

    It was nice of them to waive the fee in the beggining, but this is not a job with an hourly wage. It is COMMISSION ONLY. Just as if you were a realtor for instance...you would go to your office and make calls all day. you could do this for a month and not make a sale. Can you demand that they pay you for your time as you were at the office? NO. it is a COMISSION ONLY position.

    Think of it is a gamble. Your "wager" every night is your hosue fee. You are "betting" sixty dollars that you will make more than that. If you don't you "lost" for the night. Just the way it is hon.

    The faster that you realize the ins and outs of this industry, the better you will do. Find a different busier club and try again.
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


    Quote Originally Posted by anomar View Post
    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPrincess View Post
    Yes, its legal! You are not an "employee" you are an independent contractor. Your house fee is just that....a fee that you pay to work in the club, for the bouncers, the advertising the customers they brought in.

    I understand being new to dancing, but you don't have the right attitude or understanding of this business. You do NOT work for the club, you work for yourself essentially, kay? So wether you make 1000 dollars or no dollars, you were still there, you had the bouncers, etc, and you owe your house fee.

    It was nice of them to waive the fee in the beggining, but this is not a job with an hourly wage. It is COMMISSION ONLY. Just as if you were a realtor for instance...you would go to your office and make calls all day. you could do this for a month and not make a sale. Can you demand that they pay you for your time as you were at the office? NO. it is a COMISSION ONLY position.

    Think of it is a gamble. Your "wager" every night is your hosue fee. You are "betting" sixty dollars that you will make more than that. If you don't you "lost" for the night. Just the way it is hon.

    The faster that you realize the ins and outs of this industry, the better you will do. Find a different busier club and try again.
    agreed on all fronts.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    basically, if you are considered to be an independent contractor, the 'tipped minimum wage' clause of the contract won't hold water legally speaking. The reason for this is that

    A. while the contract clause gives you the right to complain, it does not create any obligation on the part of the club to do anything about it. If you were being treated as an 'employee dancer' then yes the club would have an obligation to be sure your 'paycheck' at least equalled the minimum wage. But by the same token, being treated as an 'employee dancer' also allows the club to legally require you to do private dances for free !

    B. even if the contract provision were enforceable, the club will be able to claim that the hourly amount needs to be averaged over some reasonable period of time i.e. a month or 160 working hours. With only 12 hours worked so far, you're not even close to proving a sub-minimum wage situation exists.

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    Veteran Member Zia_Abq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    i'm curious, what part isn't legal? i'm assuming you mean the refusal to show her her contract.
    Yes, you assumed correctly. Plenty of clubs will try and require us to sign contracts then refuse to give us a copy and then later try to enforce stuff that may or may not have even been in that contract, that's why they refuse to give the dancer her own copy. I learned this the hard way when I first started out.

    I remember the first time I asked for a copy of a contact I had just signed before starting at a club and when I asked for my own copy before giving it to them they looked at me like I had 3 heads.

    They tried to say this and that about why I couldn't have my own copy but I stood my ground and said if I was going to sign something I wanted a copy of what I was signing or I would walk. This club wanted me to work there pretty bad and so after some hushed talk between the GM and shift manager they finally gave me a copy. I noticed later on that they treated me with a lot more respect than some other dancers who were just as deserving of respect.

    My best advice in regards to contracts is to get a copy of the it at the time of signing it and if the club refuses to do so then take it as a very bad sign of what working at that club could entail in the future.

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    i'm curious, what part isn't legal?

    ...i bit my tongue, but inside my head i was screaming "but we're not employees!" but that's the trade off we accept for the positive things we get from the job.
    well...the unfortunate reality is that, in practice, most dancers actually function as employees and not independent contractors:

    -Does the club require you to work a certain schedule?
    -Does the club rely on your performance as an essential part of it's business operation?
    -Are you disciplined/fined if you fail to show up for a shift?
    -Does the club control the manner in which you do business (the color/fabric of your outfits, stage name, etc.)?
    -Does the club require that you push certain products (alcohol, toys, etc.)?


    Of course it wouldn't do anyone much good to classify exotic dancers as employees instead of independent contractors, since that means that exotic dancers would have to be afforded rights as outlined in the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act)---which would mean that both the club & the dancers would have to pay out more in taxes. (Obviously not an ideal situation if you're trying to maximize profits.)

    But if we want to talk about coming to terms with this unjust underworld, we should at least admit that the majority of us have a relatively limited amount of 'independence' in our 'contracts'.

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    God/dess anomar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    You could work in a union-operated peep show (cf lusty lady). However the money potential is not nearly as good.

    As someone who has only worked a couple shifts, you cannot change the entire system (in its terrible patriarchial capitalist way). What motivations do you have to get naked in front of a bunch of men who will objectify the image you present every night?

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    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    ^ we put up with the unfairness and illegality of it because was can make 100k a year without an education and claim we make 30k to the IRS. It's just how it is.

    You should watch the movie "Live Nude Girls Unite".

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    Default Re: Is This Legal? (refused copy of contract, paid below minimum wage)

    andwine sounds very familiar. i wonder if s/he's a poster from back in the day. in any case, i look forward to the continued humor value s/he's posts are providing in this thread alone.

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