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Thread: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I think you are VERY wrong that this means people WILL act on it. It is extremely common for people to be attracted to individuals without raping them. I think it may shock you to know how many men get turned on by young girls.

    And yes, there is something deeply wrong with people who are exclusively attracted to children. But we have to deal with it.

    Again, I think it's attitudes like you are demonstrating "they WILL eventually hurt a child" that discourage people from seeking help and contribute to the rates of child molestation.
    I think you might be leaving out the commonly attributed reasons for pedophilia. As you pointed out - it is an illness, not just an attraction and people with illnesses are not renowned for strong self control. Particularly when (to be grossly simple) there is some understanding that pedophiles experience this attraction as a result of severe power issues. I agree seeking help is a good step - but I think you are making the condition far more benign than it really is.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    ........
    Last edited by Lexi; 05-16-2020 at 07:28 PM.

  3. #103
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I agree with you on all points except when you say "the other is encouraging the potential offender".

    If you don't like my comparison to sexual abuse within the family, then let's compare it to another mental problem. Suicide.

    Do you think that encouraging people to talk about suicide and tell people when they have suicidal feelings is encouraging the suicide to take place?
    I mean it was encouraging the offender to be open and confident.
    I'm not a psychologist, but I think it would depend on the kind of suicidal ideation that is at issue - that is a bit of a wider net. But there is still a big difference in encouraging people with suicidal thoughts to seek psychological help and normalizing suicide. Come on. Didn't you see Heathers?

    Like I doubt you would be comfortable seeing a Nambla meeting in a local mall, with a bunch of guys pointing at young buys and commenting on them on the premise "Oh, they are just acting out in a safe outlet".
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I think you might be leaving out the commonly attributed reasons for pedophilia. As you pointed out - it is an illness, not just an attraction and people with illnesses are not renowned for strong self control. Particularly when (to be grossly simple) there is some understanding that pedophiles experience this attraction as a result of severe power issues. I agree seeking help is a good step - but I think you are making the condition far more benign than it really is.
    I expanded on this more above: If you are talking about exclusive pedophiles (people who are attracted to children and cannot help normal adult relationships) then I would agree I am making the condition out to be far more benign than it actually is. HOWEVER I believe there is a huge number of men who are on occassion attracted to very young girls, make jack off to the fantasy, ect. but are still able to have normal and healthy relationships with adult women. I know a lot of men like this and they don't worry me much.

    As a comparison, we could say that women who have the rape fantasy have a mental problem, ect. I would argue that if the woman is aroused exclusively by the idea of rape, it is a big and disturbing problem. However, if she has the occasional rape fantasy and still enjoys vanilla sex then it really isn't that big a deal.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    My mother was 16 years old and my dad was 18 years old when they got married in 1960. A majority of young people were married by the time they were 20 years old back then. My mother's friend was married at 17 and her boyfriend was 18.

    My sister was pregnant at 15 years old, had the baby at 16, and married her boyfriend when she was 17 and he was 18.

    As far as the gymnasts are concerned, yes, they have some great asses and legs. They are very attractive to look at but are too young for any guy older than 2 or 3 years older than them. The older they get, the wider the age gap can be.

  6. #106
    God/dess xdamage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Interesting site - the worldwide age of consent -

    http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I mean it was encouraging the offender to be open and confident.
    I'm not a psychologist, but I think it would depend on the kind of suicidal ideation that is at issue - that is a bit of a wider net. But there is still a big difference in encouraging people with suicidal thoughts to seek psychological help and normalizing suicide. Come on.
    I agree with this and I think the same can be said about pedophilia. In order for people to seek psychological help, there has to be a point at which they are comfortable doing so. I don't think that saying "let's talk about attraction to young girls. It's a problem we as society have to deal with" is comparable to "it's totally normal and okay to be attracted to young girls, let's celebrate and have pride parades!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Didn't you see Heathers?
    I don't know what this is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Like I doubt you would be comfortable seeing a Nambla meeting in a local mall, with a bunch of guys pointing at young buys and commenting on them on the premise "Oh, they are just acting out in a safe outlet".
    AFAIK NAMBLA actually encourages the legalization of sex with children and pride in their "orientation" as though it were comparable to homosexuality. I don't support this at all.

    I guess I'm just looking for a happy medium between pride and shame. I'm speaking about all mental disorders when I say it's ridiculous to take pride in them, but to shame is unecessary and a recipe for bad things to happen.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cox View Post
    My mother was 16 years old and my dad was 18 years old when they got married in 1960. A majority of young people were married by the time they were 20 years old back then. My mother's friend was married at 17 and her boyfriend was 18.

    My sister was pregnant at 15 years old, had the baby at 16, and married her boyfriend when she was 17 and he was 18.

    As far as the gymnasts are concerned, yes, they have some great asses and legs. They are very attractive to look at but are too young for any guy older than 2 or 3 years older than them. The older they get, the wider the age gap can be.
    I totally agree with you on the point that it is normal for teenagers to be sexual beings within their peer group.

    I also agree with you that these girls are too young for anyone outside their peer group.

    I think the issue we're debating is that wildly older men, men who are old enough to be in positions of power and respect over these girls (teachers, coaches, doctors, etc) find someone like Shawn Johnson sexually arousing and if it's normal and it's effects o these girls.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    Well that's people. They like things to be simple. On their 18th birthday a magic fairy comes down and turns them ALL into adults. It's so nice and simple. Don't make me have to use my brain and have to deal with complex things like maturity is a process that happens slowly over many years. I want to live life on auto-pilot

    p.s. sarcasm of course
    It's an arbitrary age, but the laws have to draw the line somewhere, and I think the age where people graduate from high school and go to college or get real jobs and are expected to act like adults is a pretty good line.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Just out of curiosity, who here doesn't have sexual fantasies about things they would never necessarily do, but nevertheless run through their minds at times?

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone may apply here.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    It's an arbitrary age, but the laws have to draw the line somewhere, and I think the age where people graduate from high school and go to college or get real jobs and are expected to act like adults is a pretty good line.
    Right, I agree. But still I linked this -

    http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

    Because the arbitrary age world wide varies quite a bit, and 18 is on the high side of the curve.

    But yes, legally we need an arbitrary age. But morally, we can still realize that 18 is actually on the far side of the curve and much of the world views a younger age of consent as normal.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    Just out of curiosity, who here doesn't have sexual fantasies about things they would never necessarily do, but nevertheless run through their minds at times?

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone may apply here.
    There's a difference between fantasizing about three dicks in you at once and committing a crime.

    Pedophilia is a pervasive mental disorder, not a random thought in an otherwise mentally healthy individual.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    Just out of curiosity, who here doesn't have sexual fantasies about things they would never necessarily do, but nevertheless run through their minds at times?

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone may apply here.
    If I acted out all my fantasies, Canada would probable reinstate the death penalty just for me.

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    Right, I agree. But still I linked this -



    Because the arbitrary age world wide varies quite a bit, and 18 is on the high side of the curve.

    But yes, legally we need an arbitrary age. But morally, we can still realize that 18 is actually on the far side of the curve and much of the world views a younger age of consent as normal.
    Look at the chart. The more developed the country is, generally the consent of age is higher.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    There's a difference between fantasizing about three dicks in you at once and committing a crime.

    Pedophilia is a pervasive mental disorder, not a random thought in an otherwise mentally healthy individual.
    I've fantasized about doing non-consensual stuff. I'm probably a little twisted but harmless nonetheless.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    Look at the chart. The more developed the country is, generally the consent of age is higher.
    I'm also willing to bet that the more developed a country is, the greater the instance of child sexual abuse.

    Contrary to popular belief, child abuse doesn't happen just among the lower class and undeveloped country. It's rampant in the upper class and developed countries.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Oh my god. We totally have to derail this thread to talk about Heathers.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathers

    I did know that about NAMBLA - I just couldn't think of another pro-pedophile group. I don't know - I think shame has a valuable part to play in the suppression of child molestation. Do I want people to be too ashamed to tell a qualified therapist? No. Do I want them to be too ashamed to openly discuss an 11 year old gymnast's butt? Yes. I think you can encourage quite a lot of shame before over reaching the shame-therapy limit.

    Again - keep in mind that offenders do not have a lack of masturbatory material, nor indeed, do they generally avoid masturbating to it. Whatever shame they might feel - they "outlet" regardless.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    ^ Whereas you, a normal (I think) individual, may have fleeting fantasies, pedophiles generally can't stop thinking about it and are not satisfied, not even acting out their fantasies.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    Look at the chart. The more developed the country is, generally the consent of age is higher.
    Yep, very astute observation Interesting isn't it?

    There are lots of theories why including just a basic one that people in more developed countries are likely to live longer. But an evolutionary biologist would say we are "wired" (literally) to be sexually attracted at puberty. Thus society teaches one thing, but people's innate drives tell them something else. In a sense then, advanced societies are a new thing (relatively speaking) and may hide people's "true nature" far more then simpler ones where their multi-million year old genes are alive and well and expressed.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    ^ Whereas you, a normal (I think) individual, may have fleeting fantasies, pedophiles generally can't stop thinking about it and are not satisfied, not even acting out their fantasies.
    I think you are assuming too much and your generalizations about pedophilia are inaccurate.

  21. #121
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I'm also willing to bet that the more developed a country is, the greater the instance of child sexual abuse.

    Contrary to popular belief, child abuse doesn't happen just among the lower class and undeveloped country. It's rampant in the upper class and developed countries.
    It may be rampant in our country, but it's socially accepted and even institutionalized in others.

  22. #122
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I think you are assuming too much and your generalizations about pedophilia are inaccurate.
    Why are you standing up for child molesters?

  23. #123
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    Why are you standing up for child molesters?
    I think she is interested in accuracy. I'm kind of squicked out too, but there is no reason to be threatened by it.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I did know that about NAMBLA - I just couldn't think of another pro-pedophile group. I don't know - I think shame has a valuable part to play in the suppression of child molestation. Do I want people to be too ashamed to tell a qualified therapist? No. Do I want them to be too ashamed to openly discuss an 11 year old gymnast's butt? Yes. I think you can encourage quite a lot of shame before over reaching the shame-therapy limit.
    I think we can distinguish between talking openly about an 11-year-olds butt in a way that encourages it versus a way that is open and healthy. Compare:

    "I wanted to talk with you in confidence about something. I was at the swimming pool yesterday and I couldn't help but get aroused by some very young girls. I find this disturbing. What do you think I should do?

    versus

    "OMG, this 11-year-old has a hot ass, check it out!"

    I'd like our society to get to the point where my first example is acceptable.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I think you are assuming too much and your generalizations about pedophilia are inaccurate.
    One of the symptoms of pedophilia...

    "Over a period of at least six months, the affected person experiences recurrent, intense and sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or actual behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children aged 13 or younger."

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