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Thread: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    I still don't get why you have put it upon yourself to stand up for people who are sexually attracted to children, whether they act out on it or not.
    As Jenny said, I am discussing management techniques.

    I have compassion for people with mental illness because I've dealt with serious mental illnesss with myself and with my family. Nobody chooses to be mentally ill. People don't just wake up and say "hmmm... I think it would be totally badass to get horny while looking at little girls and slit my wrists."

    I do not have compassion for child molesters.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    I don't think it makes a difference between exclusive and non exclusive. That is so silly to think that someone who fantasizes sexually about children is somehow less sick or potentially harmful if they are also attracted to people who are age-appropriate to them.
    Just a point to note... Many people in our society would define a 40 something man sexually fantasizing over a young 20 something woman as age inappropriate.

    Yet there is a quandry because you are a stripper and, most strippers sexually entertain men more then twice their age, and do it for profit. They encourage this indulgence because it benefits them.

    So puberty is a biologically significant fact in regards to sex. Beyond that then, what criteria are you using to define age appropriate?

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    If we are talking about someone who struggles with attraction to children and has never touched a child, I can't agree. No one would seek help if they knew that talking to a psychologist would land them under supervision for life.

    If we start locking up every guy who checks out a 12-year-olds butt, we need to start putting up prisons at every street corner.
    Oh I agree. It is the same with thoughts of suicide, or thoughts of committing assault or murder towards others. If we are going to judge them as evil sinners without having actually done anything wrong, everyone I know and myself included deserves to be locked up for fear that they "might" commit a crime.
    Last edited by xdamage; 08-18-2008 at 09:11 PM. Reason: clarification

  4. #154
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    Just a point to note... Many people in our society would define a 40 something man sexually fantasizing over a young 20 something woman as age inappropriate.

    Yet there is a quandry because you are a stripper and, most strippers sexually entertain men more then twice their age, and do it for profit. They encourage this indulgence because it benefits them.

    So puberty is a biologically significant fact in regards to sex. Beyond that then, what criteria are you using to define age appropriate?
    I quantify age appropriate as someone being EITHER emotionally and physically mature OR two people in the same peer group, Like two 14 year olds fooling around are age appropriate for one another, AND a 24 year old dating a 40 year old is acceptable, too. The 40 year old, or even the 24 year old with the 14 year old is not.

    The difference between me and the victim of abuse is that I do it willingly and for profit, and I am physically and emotionally mature, as is the man (maybe not emotionally in the man's case).

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    ......
    Last edited by Lexi; 05-16-2020 at 07:24 PM.

  6. #156
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    ^^^Lexi, do you recognize the possiblity for improved research and finding a cure?

  7. #157
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I have compassion for people with mental illness because I've dealt with serious mental illnesss with myself and with my family. Nobody chooses to be mentally ill. People don't just wake up and say "hmmm... I think it would be totally badass to get horny while looking at little girls and slit my wrists."

    I do not have compassion for child molesters.
    Do you remember John Robin Sharpe? You would have been quite young at the time, so it might not have been on your radar.
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexi View Post
    I see your point, but it's like trying to force us into liking x,y, or z. Almost every single one of the people who were interviewd (pedo or child molester) stated that the urge would never go away.

    I saw a few documentaries/shows on this and the offenders always said that therapy was futile. Even though therapy focused on repressing the urges, it didn't stop them from acting out, or from wanting to act out. Many felt like they eventually would act out. The disorder is so fucked up.
    I agree, but I wish I didn't have to. I wish we could treat it with drugs and therapy and it would go away. Even pedos who have been chemically castrated still act out.

    This may not be PC in this thread, but this idea that they can have the urge and NOT act on it is silly, too. It's different than occasionally wanting to punch someone who pisses you off. It's their sexuality. It's indelible.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    ......
    Last edited by Lexi; 05-16-2020 at 07:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    This may not be PC in this thread, but this idea that they can have the urge and NOT act on it is silly, too. It's different than occasionally wanting to punch someone who pisses you off. It's their sexuality. It's indelible.
    PC or not, it's factually incorrect.

  11. #161
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    ^ the cure will be for the kids they hurt, not for them.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Do you remember John Robin Sharpe? You would have been quite young at the time, so it might not have been on your radar.
    I read about this case after the fact. I've actually read a lot of legal cases surrounding child pornography.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    ......
    Last edited by Lexi; 05-16-2020 at 07:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I read about this case after the fact. I've actually read a lot of legal cases surrounding child pornography.
    I realize that he is closer to the NAMBLA paradigm than what you are talking about, but I wondered what you thought about it. I mean, after reading that case it is hard to believe in indirect child porn as a "safe outlet".
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    PC or not, it's factually incorrect.
    I guess that's where we disagree and that's that.

    The problem with this "cure" idea is that NO ONE is going to come forward and say "I'm sexually attracted to children and know it's wrong, help me". They only get treatment after they hurt a child and they have crossed the threshold into acting on their urges.

  16. #166
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    .......
    Last edited by Lexi; 05-16-2020 at 07:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    I saw some of the footage of the Chinese girls taking showers. First....they're 16. Second....they look like they're 8. Yeah....creepy.
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I realize that he is closer to the NAMBLA paradigm than what you are talking about, but I wondered what you thought about it. I mean, after reading that case it is hard to believe in indirect child porn as a "safe outlet".
    I didn't actually read the Wikipedia article, but if my memory serves me correctly, the issue was the legality of fictional "erotic" stories involving children.

    To be perfectly frank, I do have a problem with distributing such stories. I believe they glamourize adult/child relationships rather than discussing them in a way which recognizes the severity of the issue.

    That being said, I would have a very hard time supporting them being illegal because I am a huge proponent of freedom of expression. I guess I would require research to show that the distribution of these stories encourages pedophiles to become child molesters in order to sway my opinion.

    I don't like it, I don't support it and I wouldn't encourage it. But with the information I have, I can't support it being illegal just because I find it distasteful.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    The problem with this "cure" idea is that NO ONE is going to come forward and say "I'm sexually attracted to children and know it's wrong, help me".
    At least not when people have attitudes like you.

    And no offense, but I can't believe your "facts" that all pedophiles act out when you have nothing to show.

    My belief is anecdotal information but like I said, I've discussed pedophilia with dozens of pedophiles.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    I quantify age appropriate as someone being EITHER emotionally and physically mature OR two people in the same peer group, Like two 14 year olds fooling around are age appropriate for one another, AND a 24 year old dating a 40 year old is acceptable, too. The 40 year old, or even the 24 year old with the 14 year old is not.

    The difference between me and the victim of abuse is that I do it willingly and for profit, and I am physically and emotionally mature, as is the man (maybe not emotionally in the man's case).
    My personal definition happens to align with yours of course. Still, not everyone would agree with us.

    As a side point, we not so long ago had a discussion on the blue side about the whole school girl outfit thing in strip clubs. Is it perverted? Does it promote child abuse? Etc. It touched on some of the points in this thread and again we saw not everyone could agree. The 14 year old case is easy. The 24 year old case is relatively easy. But it is the tough gray area in the middle where people start to strongly disagree. 19 and a 40 year old? Hmmm... 18... people say depends on maturity. 17?? 17 +364 days? 16?

    And then of course it depends on culture too. Ours trained us to see it a certain way but in other cultures the lines people are taught are sometimes younger.

    Anyway, obviously when it comes to my own kids I'd have ZERO mercy for anyone abusing them so most of this is academic. And there is absolutely no question I'd not see it as an less offensive if it happened a year after puberty either. Again, so it is academic.

    OTOH if it is just perpetual thought and it stays that way and they self control, I have to admit I don't see how I could argue in favor of locking them up because of what they "might" do. If our culture was to adopt laws like that it is a scary slippery slope where the slope would see us all losing a lot of freedoms because others strongly believe we might do [fill in the blank]. All such laws would do is lead people to shut-up about what they are thinking. It wouldn't actually stop the thoughts, and if there was any hope of them seeking treatment, they wouldn't for fear of the consequences.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    I paid a lot more attention to women's gymnastics before beach volleyball became an Olympic sport... I mean come on, hot women in tiny bathing suites rolling around in the sand and slapping each other on the ass! It just doesn't get any better...oh yeah, did I mention the cheerleaders?

    Years ago the minimum age for a female gymnast was something like thirteen or fourteen. The age limit was raised to sixteen and pressure was put on training programs world-wide to let these young girls develop as normal women would...obviously China didn't get the memo.

    Anywho...the net result of all of this is that we now have curvy sixteen year olds instead of pre-pubescent fourteen year olds running around in spandex that is designed and manufactured to show-off their bodies. How can a guy not look?

    Now, I'm not going to go out and try to hit on a sixteen year old after I watch the Olympics. In fact, I pretty much don't even go near strippers who are under thirty when I'm clubbing. Sure the young ladies on television look amazing but when it comes to my sexual appetite I still like grown-ups.
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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    I think you are assuming too much and your generalizations about pedophilia are inaccurate.
    Every counselor I've ever spoken with (and many have talked with my family) has agreed that pedophiles start with fantasizing, sometimes lasting for years, then go on to molesting, many times their victims getting progressively younger. They don't stop, and are never cured, once that switch is flipped, there is no going back. Many act out while trying to stay within the bounds of the law by seeking out underdeveloped women who are just old enough to allow them to stay out of prison. BUT they are STILL pedophiles. Don't let your children near them. Please don't be like my Grandma and take this lightly. Dozens of counselors couldn't convince her, she defended him until her dying breath. Using many of the arguements you girls are using.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    First of all, I never said anything about the gymnasts that were of age, Lexi. This is the 2nd time you have taken a post of mine completely out of context. I would expect better of a moderator.

    I am talking about the average gymnasts that I watched the other night. I went to bed early, but the girls I saw were 14-16 with one 17 yr old, I think.

    ** Saying they have a nice ass is different than being attracted to them.

    ** If you can't see the difference in being attracted to a 30 yr old with small breasts and being attracted to a 15 yr old.... Well, your a moron and I can't really reason with someone like that.

    ** We have higher reasoning which enables us to control things like attraction to some degree. Why do you think guys aren't boffing their sisters.... Or do you think that's ok as well? (If they are hot, of course.)

    ** The guys who fantasize about the young girls are not benign. Pedophiles start this way and then progress (some have the iron will to take years and I would guess a few never take it outside their fantasys.... Does this make it ok.... My kids wouldn't be allowed around them...)

    ** Shaun Johnson does have the ass of an older woman, but she doesn't look older. Age determination is about much more than your ass. Besides that, she is one of the older girls that I thought were kind of on the fence.

    I can't explain my position much better than this. Age determination is about MUCH more than your ass. Your brain controls attraction, not just your hormones. Telling guys it's ok to fantasize about very young underage girls makes the problem worse, not better (the more they think about it the more likely they are to act on it). Ask any abuse counselor about this if you don't believe me.

    I don't know why I'm still posting in this thread. The rampant stupidity and misconstruing everything that is said is really tiring. Just please, if you don't believe there is anything wrong with guys fantasizing about young girls, don't have kids... EVER! I've seen the destruction.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    Just a point to note... Many people in our society would define a 40 something man sexually fantasizing over a young 20 something woman as age inappropriate.

    Yet there is a quandry because you are a stripper and, most strippers sexually entertain men more then twice their age, and do it for profit. They encourage this indulgence because it benefits them.

    So puberty is a biologically significant fact in regards to sex. Beyond that then, what criteria are you using to define age appropriate?
    Just pointing out that I don't have a problem with this. If the guy wants a 20 yr old to keep on a leash, then he's an ass, but not an uncurable criminal. Totally different thing. Apples to oranges.

    My critieria for age appropriate (for older men) is through and finished with puberty and it's physical and mental changes. Puberty lasts longer than a second for women. That's why I don't see a problem if men are attracted to the fully developed 16 yr olds I see at the mall. It would be a problem if they acted on it, but not for noticing.

    BTW - This is something I hadn't really thought of much and therefore I may change my mind. There could be a shitload of holes in this theory...It's totally off the top of my head. Never thought about this topic much because I don't associate with men who have a preference for youngish girls.

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    Default Re: Gymnasts, pervs, and the Olympics

    Jasmine, you're wrong, no offense. Pedophiles are attracted to little kids. Every gymnast out there (except the horribly cheating Chinese) are 16 or older and they look it. Now, they're shorter with small chests, but to try to claim that it's pedophilic to think that 16 year old Shawn Johnson is good-looking...that's asinine. There is nothing pedophilic about finding a 16 year old girl attractive. You can't extrapolate every instance of finding an underage girl attractive into mass pedophilia...sorry...I know you're emotional about this, but on this argument, you're just wrong.

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