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Thread: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

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    Default Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    What do you think? I am just now reading up on all of this, but it could be potentially very dangerous. Russia is pretty well armed and I don't think it is wise to piss them off, much less even think of getting in the middle of a war with them. Tread carefully W.

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    It's okay, he probably just sent it to Atlanta.

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    That would be typical Bush fashion

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    That's probably why he has a problem with it in the first place. If he knew Georgia was "over there," he never would've said anything. He probably thinks we've been invaded and we're going to lose our peaches and NASCAR.

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Yekh, you kill me.

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    Featured Member Kabukicho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Its horrifying, I can't understand why Georgia's government would provoke the Russians, who were just waiting for a reason, and then expect the US to bail them out.

    The house my husband lived in near Gori ( he served in Peace Corps Georgia) was blown up and the neighbour killed; an old man while the rest of the village fled he had nowhere to go. Its heartbreaking, I just don't know how this will end.

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    I don't know, but I hate the entitlement that has come from Georgia officials. Saying "talking is nice, but let's see some action". The US is (supposedly) smart enough not to piss off Russia, why isn't Georgia? And if they're going to play with fire like this, why are we supposed to come get into the middle of another "war"? We have our own that many in our country aren't happy about, but some idiot country like Georgia expects that we should have to solve their problems too? We're in a fucking recession and in a dangerous situation with the middle East. Fight your own battles.

    I hate how we're spending more funds we don't have to provide "humanitarian aide" to a country unable to fight their own battles, yet we can't take care of our own backyard properly.

    /rant

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    Featured Member Kabukicho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    There's a huge oil pipeline running through Georgia, this might explain at least part of the US interest.

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraViolet View Post
    I don't know, but I hate the entitlement that has come from Georgia officials. Saying "talking is nice, but let's see some action". The US is (supposedly) smart enough not to piss off Russia, why isn't Georgia? And if they're going to play with fire like this, why are we supposed to come get into the middle of another "war"? We have our own that many in our country aren't happy about, but some idiot country like Georgia expects that we should have to solve their problems too? We're in a fucking recession and in a dangerous situation with the middle East. Fight your own battles.

    I hate how we're spending more funds we don't have to provide "humanitarian aide" to a country unable to fight their own battles, yet we can't take care of our own backyard properly.

    /rant
    Perhaps Georgia expects help because they have been helping USA in Iraq? Georgia had third largest contingent in Iraq after GB and USA. Perhaps rest of world should let USA fight it's own battles in Afganistan and Iraq.

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    Featured Member saphire123456's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    I don't think the US is going to piss Russia off just by sending the humanitarian aid. Now if the military gets involved and they start sending troops, thats another matter.... I do agree that the Russians WERE looking for a provocation and the Georgians finally gave it to them
    These days I like to count my money. I like to wash it delicately and iron it. Sometimes I dry it with some bounty to make it all nice and cuddly. I love my money... did I say that out loud?

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    (snip)"There continues to be ink spilled and bandwith used by those claiming that Georgia is somehow at fault for Russia’s attempt to overthrow its democratically elected government. The echo chamber goes something like this: never mind that South Ossetia is in Georgian territory; Georgia should have just let South Ossetia and its Russian protectors alone. The fact that the entire South Ossetia issue was created by local and Moscovian Communists to get rid of Georgian anti-Communist leader Zviad Gamsakhurdia is never mentioned.

    Also left out are some recent events the Washington Times editors noted this morning (emphasis added):

    Yet Russia has been encouraging the breakaway provinces and has been provoking the Georgian government into a military conflict. This occurs because Moscow seeks to dominate the former territories of the Soviet Union, to halt Georgia’s attempt to enter NATO and to weaken the prestige of the West.

    The Kremlin has been gradually escalating its interference in the Caucasus. Last year, Russians illegally bombed Georgian territory twice. They have also been controlling the government of South Ossetia and even gave its citizens Russian passports. This was a tactic to allow Russia to claim “protection” over “Russian citizens” in South Ossetia. Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili’s decision to send troops into South Ossetia on Thursday was a just and overdue measure in order to ensure the territorial sovereignty of his nation.

    In other words, Russia has been muscling in on its neighbor for years - ever since Saakashvili was elected (and his supporters had to take to the streets to get Russian stooge Eduard Shevardnadze to admit he lost in the Rose Revolution). When Georgia finally had enough of Russia’s irridentism, Putin had his “excuse” to send in the troops and put into action his plan to to do to Saakashvili what his predecessors did to Gamsakhurdia.

    Many things are working in Russia’s favor: moral relativism in the free world, a craven appeasement instinct that infect many in same, confusion of this with the Chechnya-Dagestan affair (an entirely different matter that is unequivocally in Russian territory and is a bare-knuckles brawl between Russia and al Qaeda), and exhaustion among some in America over Iraq and Afghanistan.

    That said, what Russia does not have is the truth. That stands with the Georgian people and their leaders who have tried to defend the nation against the Putinist tyrant next door."(snip)

    from


    And yes what's really at stake here are three reasonably important items

    A - the democratically elected gov't of the free and sovereign (as well as US ally) nation of Georgia is threatened with a military invasion / takeover

    B - Georgia's future entry in to NATO will be squelched permanently

    C - the Russians will destroy the oil pipeline running through Georgia and then to Turkey and then to Israel which allows for Caucasus oil to be exported throughout the world independently of the Russian oil pipeline system.


    I would add that it took many weeks of advance preparation for the Russian Army to move 100,000 troops and weapons over the Caucasus mountains in order to 'coincidentally' be in position to occupy South Ossetia and subsequently parts of Georgia proper. It was also highly 'coincidental' that the timing of events overlapped the opening of the China olympics ... which could have rendered the whole series of events as back page news in the absence of Georgia's immediate request to pull its soldiers out of Iraq in order to help fight off a Russian invasion.

    I would also add that the last time the Russian rationale re South Ossetia was used ... and the world in general took no action ... was in the Sudatenland. See


    (snip"I really hate it when history is allowed to repeat itself... especially the really ugly parts of history, like wars and the misery they inevitably inflict on people. And the apathy (if not cooperation) of the masses that inevitably allows it to happen.

    Does anyone remember that the two world wars of the 20th century began in Eastern Europe ... you know, that part of the planet that the "west" considers (to its obvious detriment) insignificant?

    Or how Russian communist and German Nazi leaders promoted popular Marxist tenets to win over enough of the populace to seize power ... and then once they did, proceeded to massacre millions who saw them for what they were? (And, btw, the western world has still not held them all accountable and still flatly refuses to. But, that's another story for another post.)

    Sadly, with this Russian invasion of Georgia, it looks like déja vue all over again.

    For anyone who believes that the Cold War ended with the collapse of the Iron Curtain way back in 1989, I suggest heading over to Wikipedia and checking out the entry on Sudetenland. You'll find some astonishingly clear parallels between what Nazi Germany did to a new country called Czechoslovakia and what Russia is currently doing to a new country called Georgia.

    Which leads me to my concern about the future of my ancestral homeland.

    Will US president Bush become the 21st century's Neville Chamberlain? And will Ukraine be Russia's next target, with the Black Sea fleet skirmish as an excuse to follow the historical precendent set in Poland in 1939 and take over the eastern, supposedly "pro-Russian" half of Ukraine... for starters?

    And, the $64k question: Will the rest of the western world knuckle under to this new group of thugs that has set up base in Russia, the way the Nazis took over Germany?

    At least I'm not the only one asking the question. Beth Shaw over at Right Pundits has a pretty insightful analysis of the Russia Georgia war, as has Alan Philips in his article "Russia knew the west wouldn't dare help Georgia."

    So I guess a few of us do remember how past world wars started. Too bad the appeasers can't recognize themselves ... but what do they care about the future consequences for others of their spinelessness? They're not the ones who will die on the battlefield, get raped and/or tortured, or lose loved ones in the ugliness of the war they allowed to happen.

    And all for the sake of oil. As Beth asks, why aren't the "blood for oil" screamers on a plane heading for a protest at the Kremlin, hmm?? Especially since the Georgian president is waving a white flag, to which the Kremlin has responded with more bombing. Nice. "(snip)


    I don't think the US is going to piss Russia off just by sending the humanitarian aid. Now if the military gets involved and they start sending troops, thats another matter
    well, the 'humanitarian' aid mission involves a whole lot of US army air transports and personnel on the tarmac at Tbilisi airport. The 'tin foil hat' crowd would tell you that this US military presence in Tbilisi is the ONLY thing that stopped the Russians from rolling in and taking the Georgian capital !!! As it is, the Russians have advanced to within rocket attack range.

    .... I do agree that the Russians WERE looking for a provocation and the Georgians finally gave it to them
    not only were the russians looking for a provocation, they ENGINEERED it by providing South Ossetian malcontents with weapons and encouragement. This is nothing new ... see The only thing different this time was the scope of the South Ossetian 'terrorist' attack, and the scope of the Georgian gov't response to it.
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-14-2008 at 05:15 PM.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Uh. You mean that brilliant politician puppet master Bush didn't manipulate the other super power ruled by an ex-KGB officer into an invasion of a small country over oil? You are right wing, Melonie!

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by JML View Post
    Perhaps Georgia expects help because they have been helping USA in Iraq? Georgia had third largest contingent in Iraq after GB and USA. Perhaps rest of world should let USA fight it's own battles in Afganistan and Iraq.
    Well, see that's exactly it. Not only have they "helped" us in Iraq and Afghanistan, they're supposed to be a good ally of the US and their govt is essentially modeled after us.

    I see it kind of the opposite as the general consensus here, us sitting and doing nothing while Russia bullies Georgia, our ally, makes us weak. I realize that's walking a fine line, because we DON'T want to piss off Russia ....but believe me, by doing nothing, we are seen as weaker than we already are not to mention the fact that no country will ever have our backs again (although we pissed most of that away anyways, but you get my drift I think).






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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Well, no, probably not. Unfortunately.

    It's a very fine line, and I do not claim to have the correct solution AT ALL. I don't think humanitarian aid is a big issue though.






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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    That's probably why he has a problem with it in the first place. If he knew Georgia was "over there," he never would've said anything. He probably thinks we've been invaded and we're going to lose our peaches and NASCAR.
    As a girl who grew up in GA here in the US.....that just made me laugh til I couldn't breathe. Kudos Yek.

    *Gathers some peaches, a couple of pecans, a bottle of Coke, and then hides somewhere inside the Atlanta Superspeedway*

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by Hello_Kitty27 View Post
    I see it kind of the opposite as the general consensus here, us sitting and doing nothing while Russia bullies Georgia, our ally, makes us weak. I realize that's walking a fine line, because we DON'T want to piss off Russia ....but believe me, by doing nothing, we are seen as weaker than we already are not to mention the fact that no country will ever have our backs again (although we pissed most of that away anyways, but you get my drift I think).
    I agree with you hun. It makes us weaker to NOT help, then to once again stick our noses in.
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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    again based on the Sudatenland precedent, if the US had done nothing in regard to the Russian 'takeover' of Georgia, this would have encouraged the Russians to do the same with other former Soviet republics that now have fledgeling western tie democracies i.e. Ukraine, Lithuania etc.


    You mean that brilliant politician puppet master Bush didn't manipulate the other super power ruled by an ex-KGB officer into an invasion of a small country over oil
    are you referring to the unelected, prime minister for life, ex-KGB senior officer Vladimir Putin ? The guy who reportedly uses Polonium as his calling card ?


    this two year old observation from a former KGB colonel is even more poignant today ...

    (snip)"In a London Telegraph article, Oleg Gordievsky, a former KGB colonel today states:

    I know that today the KGB has tried to kill my friend. Tomorrow it could be me and the day after it could be another London-based critic of Mr Putin's government. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the KGB, my old employer, has been renamed the FSB. But I know its methods are unchanged from those perfected in the darkest hours of Stalin's reign of terror.

    He knows that the west has failed to call his government to account for the suspicious circumstances surrounding Ms Politkovskaya's murder. Indeed on the day she died, President Bush trumpeted Russia's acceptance into the World Trade Organisation. Yet Mr Putin is eliminating his opponents with the same ruthless determination displayed by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s. Western leaders are pursuing a hypocritical policy of appeasement that is encouraging the ruthless instincts of Russia's leaders"(snip)

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    Default Re: Bush Sends Humanitarian Aid to Georgia

    lol to Georgia provoking Russia. Hate to break the news to you folks, but no country moves like Russia did on Georgia at the spur of the moment. It would have taken months of planning. And several months ago, Russia gave everyone in the 2 break away zones full Russian citizenship. Funny how it ends up, aye.

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