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    Default Interesting self-worth discovery

    So today I went, as usual, for a walk near clubs and bars in MTL. All is great, a bit shy, as usual, here and there, thinking about myself.

    When it was all over at 4am, a bunch of guys started talking to me on the street.
    And I really don't like talking to guys, because this is not why I am there, and I don't know if they are gay or not, and I always wonder, why do they talk to me.

    So I cut it short, turn around and walk away. Just literally, nothing said, turn around and walk away - wave "bye" smiling, and these guys scream insults me.

    Well, no big deal, who cares, but it made me realize my worth. If these are the guys that are my "competition", so to speak, for women, geez, I feel sorry for women to having to deal with them, I really do. I don't want to deal with them ever again, and I only met them once and it was enough for me, and I am a guy :-)

    I would never do what they were doing. And heck, they aren't even afraid of a guy!
    Yeah, I am half of their height, but a guy of any height can be very dangerous noneoftheless.
    I wouldn't alienate a guy ever, he could have a gun, he could be distraught or under influence, he could just find you somewhere in the dark, etc.

    We are dangerous multi-level creatures, and even I, I look nice, may be even weak, but I know that I have a very tough side of me, and you don't need to be strong to do serious damage either, so they are playing russian roulette without realizing it.

    And if they treat a guy this way, how will they treat a girl? Makes me scared...

    Or are they only tough with smaller guys? Never mind, I can defend myself no problem, but this was a news flash for me just how degrading men can be...
    Morons, honest to God.
    And I just sense that this isn't an isolated incident, that there are a lot of men like that. Geez.

    But it made me realize my worth after that. Just at what level I am higher than these people. And that I have nothing to worry about, if some chick would prefer them, geez, be my guest, she must be nuts, cause I have no respect for them...

    I have a question, how do you ignore men when you walk out?
    I apparently need some of your technique, so they would leave me alone.
    I don't even look at these guys, why are they talking to me? It's still a puzzle to me.
    Some are gay, yeah, but not all.

    Yeah, I look great, great shirt, heavy solid metal masculine DG belt, CNC boots, pretty strong "presense"(whatever that is). Out of everybody I see, I have yet to find a man who dresses better than I do. Yet it's simple.

    But my self worth is skyrocketed after that. I realized if a woman wants one of those "beings"-cause I don't want to call them "men" - they are a disgrace for men, just no comment, instead of me or a Man like me, that's fine with me. She should have them (in buckets) and leave me alone. Really like, I am so thankful for this incident. My self worth is through the roof. I have no respect for these people.

    And I have a more legitimate reason to ignore them, I am not gay and I am there for girls. Anybody can understand that I am not gay.
    Last edited by mrXmind; 08-17-2008 at 04:27 AM. Reason: To clarify

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    God/dess LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Is english your second language?

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Yeah, it is. It's 3d to be precise. I got approached by 3 girls and without me saying a word, one said "Are you from Russia?" :-) That was funny. And they spoke a few words in Russian with me, one said "I love you" in Russian, that was sweet :-)
    What I liked about them, is they said, "wow, you look so happy, you have such a big smile! What made you so happy today?"
    They took a picture with me and run away :-) It also happens a lot when I go out :-) That's a great thing though.

    What's a *Nom* = Norm?
    Last edited by mrXmind; 08-17-2008 at 03:39 AM. Reason: adding info

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    Featured Member Perry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    ^^ Disregard that, lol. I didn't know English wasn't your first language. I'm still having trouble understanding your post though.


    ETA Not that nom is English.

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Oh, Ok.
    I was just surprised how these guys acted. I was very surprised that these guys would shout some insults when I would just say bye and leave.

    And it made me realize what kind of guys girls have to deal with regularly, and really made me compare "objectively" myself to them and realize just how high my self-worth or my self-esteem should be.

    Because before I thought in an "everybody is better than me"-kind of way, you know. These things are in our minds and are not logical. Something has to shake them off. An incident like that does that.

    And overall I still do not understand why would any guy spend his time talking to me when his goal should be to talk to women. And they talk to me all the time, to the point it's getting annoying to me, because it's just a waste of my time. I walk by, they stop me and talk to me. Why? It doesn't make sense.

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    Featured Member Perry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    What are they talking to you about exactly?

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Nothing at all. Just hi, where are you from. These guys I mentioned said "Why are you drinking coffee at 4am?", or "Where have you been, we've been looking for you". Nonsense like that. "I've seen you at the university". Looks like a joke.
    Out of a blue a guy comes up and does a High Five with me. Even on the street!
    A firemen team talks to me through the windows of their truck :-) Why? Don't they have anything better to do?

    Then a group of guys, gave me vodka, I didn't realize they were gay until I asked why they don't invite girls and they said some hate-filled phrase about girls, which really made me uncomfortable and I left.

    The only good I get from this is they let me in their club for free. And this club is high profile in MTL. And they don't search me, they just let me in. That's the only benefit of male attention or "respect" I get, and even that is not necessary, I am ready to pay my way.

    I would drop this "male attention" in a second and would replace it all by "girl attention". They are much more subtle though, and it takes a lot more concentration and fine tuning on my part to see their signs of interest. Brushing their hair while looking at me, is a sign I figured out. Dancing next to me, happens all the time - did take some time to figure out. Sometimes the whole group of 5 girls would just come right next to me and follow me when I move into another room. Sometimes their show of uninterest is actually a sign of interest. And I appreciate it. This is why I am there. But guys attention puzzles me.
    Last edited by mrXmind; 08-17-2008 at 05:28 AM. Reason: correction

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    So random guys on the street are giving you a lot of unsolicited attention? And you are asking how to be ignored. I'm sure there is something missing from this story. Cross-dressing?

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    Veteran Member Zia_Abq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Yes it happens to us. ALOT! I've lost count at how many men in clubs or bars who have hurled insults at me for not being interested in them. I am always, always polite to begin with too. I'll say things like thanks, or I am flattered or whatever and a good 8 out of 10 times the guy will call me a name once he realized he isn't getting in my pants.

    How to avoid it? Easiest way is to stay away from that kind of scene in the first place. Drinking establishments seem to often bring out the worst in people. Otherwise you just learned to brush it off or laugh at it and move on with your night.

    Why do they do it? My take is that they have very low self esteem and behave like a school yard bully when they don't get the reaction they were trying to elicit.

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Quote Originally Posted by mrXmind View Post
    Nothing at all. Just hi, where are you from. These guys I mentioned said "Why are you drinking coffee at 4am?", or "Where have you been, we've been looking for you". Nonsense like that. "I've seen you at the university". Looks like a joke.
    Out of a blue a guy comes up and does a High Five with me. Even on the street!
    A firemen team talks to me through the windows of their truck :-) Why? Don't they have anything better to do?

    Then a group of guys, gave me vodka, I didn't realize they were gay until I asked why they don't invite girls and they said some hate-filled phrase about girls, which really made me uncomfortable and I left.

    The only good I get from this is they let me in their club for free. And this club is high profile in MTL. And they don't search me, they just let me in. That's the only benefit of male attention or "respect" I get, and even that is not necessary, I am ready to pay my way.

    I would drop this "male attention" in a second and would replace it all by "girl attention". They are much more subtle though, and it takes a lot more concentration and fine tuning on my part to see their signs of interest. Brushing their hair while looking at me, is a sign I figured out. Dancing next to me, happens all the time - did take some time to figure out. Sometimes the whole group of 5 girls would just come right next to me and follow me when I move into another room. Sometimes their show of uninterest is actually a sign of interest. And I appreciate it. This is why I am there. But guys attention puzzles me.
    Men want to be near you and women swoon. You're the freakin' Warren Buffet of self-worth. There can be only 2 explainations:
    1) You are nuclear, white-hot gay.
    2) James N. Sears (aka Dimitri the Lover).

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    I'm personally not entirely sure that "any girl who prefers another guy to me is as worthless as he is" is all that indicative of high self-worth; I'm just saying. Self-worth is internal, not external. You don't get it by seeking out people to feel better than. I'm also a bit bewildered on why you are so hostile and suspicious about strangers making conversation with you - I mean, if a woman in a bar starts talking to me I don't get all "are you gay? What do you want from me? Leave me alone! I'm here for male attention!" People go to bars to join a social environment; I don't think it is abnormal for people to talk to you in one.

    I mean, I suppose it's good that you had a nice night - it's just a bit of a bewildering story.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Veteran Member Lklucky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    I do understand what you are saying; it was like you had a small revelation about male aggression when their pride is hurt. There is a Jewish proverb or advice about seeing a people's true nature through the way they deal with disappointment... I have seen this type of hostility and have been promptly turned off by it.

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Your story reminds me of a guy I know. He says the same things but when I'm out with him I notice HIS interactions with people. He seems to act as though he thinks he's better than others. And when a guy is friendly with him (in a social NOT sexual way), he's not equally friendly/engaging back. A recent example I'm thinking of was when he and i were walking down the street and a cool-looking guy was walking towards us to give us a flier to some party/event. My guy friend almost turned up his nose in disinterest. It was weird, I can't even explain it. But then i stopped the cool-guy and grabbed the flier. There was no reason for anyone to be rude.

    Quote Originally Posted by chop View Post
    So random guys on the street are giving you a lot of unsolicited attention? And you are asking how to be ignored. I'm sure there is something missing from this story.
    I believe something is missing too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zia_Abq View Post
    Yes it happens to us. ALOT! I've lost count at how many men in clubs or bars who have hurled insults at me for not being interested in them. I am always, always polite to begin with too. I'll say things like thanks, or I am flattered or whatever and a good 8 out of 10 times the guy will call me a name once he realized he isn't getting in my pants.

    How to avoid it? Easiest way is to stay away from that kind of scene in the first place. Drinking establishments seem to often bring out the worst in people. Otherwise you just learned to brush it off or laugh at it and move on with your night.

    Why do they do it? My take is that they have very low self esteem and behave like a school yard bully when they don't get the reaction they were trying to elicit.
    I agree with everything Zia said here as it pertains to us girls and hetero-males. But in your situation, I can only see this being the case in your dealing with homosexual men. Not heteros. So, with regard to heteros, I think it's the energy you're sending off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I'm personally not entirely sure that "any girl who prefers another guy to me is as worthless as he is" is all that indicative of high self-worth; I'm just saying. Self-worth is internal, not external. You don't get it by seeking out people to feel better than. I'm also a bit bewildered on why you are so hostile and suspicious about strangers making conversation with you - I mean, if a woman in a bar starts talking to me I don't get all "are you gay? What do you want from me? Leave me alone! I'm here for male attention!" People go to bars to join a social environment; I don't think it is abnormal for people to talk to you in one.

    I mean, I suppose it's good that you had a nice night - it's just a bit of a bewildering story.
    Yup. This is why the story makes me think of my guy friend who almost thinks everyone is after him and that men in particular are hostile/jealous.

    Change your outlook on life and people and i bet people will react differently towards you.

    And the fact that you mentioned the designers you wear screams low-self esteem to me. But I might be wrong.

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    You know girls, I talked to you and it made my mind clearer. I understood something, and I want to share it.
    I do appreciate all your comments, so I hope you won't take anything I say here personally:

    Designer clothes have nothing to do with self esteem. That's like saying a body armor means low confidence or weakness.
    They are there for a very clear logical reason. They open doors in clubs. They drive attention.
    And I just realized it, that's why I get approached by guys.
    I didn't have that when I wasn't wearing them. And just "self-esteem" is not enough. I live for 10 years on "another planet" all alone due to my immigration. I went through things that I would not describe to anybody. It toughened up my character and made me very indpenedent and self-sufficient, yet I was a cry baby when I was a child. I was anything buy indepentent. I was more clingy and fearful. This independence and clear mind attracts a lot of attention and I sense is responsible for jumping over a "looser" factor. That's 1 reason why I get approached so much.
    But if you don't look good, nobody will approach you, you girls know it better than men do.
    You can have everything else in the world, you have to show yourself from your best side.

    And a man in his 30 wearing those clothes is a lot different than a 15 year old "monkey" showing off his labels to his friends. I run my business, I earned my money and I choose those clothes consciously and for many reasons.
    Ok, but this comment about self-esteem and clothes did make me realize something very profound about me and how am I different, so I appreciate it.

    As for comparison and saying somebody is better than the other one, well, we may object to it, but isn't this what we do in olympics and in grades in school and practically everywhere else?

    And when I say, I am better than these guys that shout insults on me when I walk out on them politely, just because I would never do that even if I am insulted first, I am 100% right!
    I really believe that it's an objective criteria and I am absolutely right here. I am better than those guys exactly because I would never act as ugly and disgraceful as them. It's horrible what they do. They can't be proud of what they do.

    If you want to talk to me, say something interesting. I didn't stop you on the street, you stopped me on the street. Am I not right here? Didn't I hear from girls saying practically the same thing whether online dating or on the street, on how they are fed up with "Hi babe" lines?

    Well, ironically, I experience the same thing with men, very surprisingly. I think the world really shows me the other side. And I much need it for my success in life and with women. A great guy like me should never doubt himself due to the pigs like them. Isn't it fair? Do you see what I am saying?

    These "men" should *not* get all the women, just because they got over this destructive self belief by replacing it by another belief! And just because great guys like me shy out precisely because of these "eqality" ="read: self worthlessness" beliefs that we got from our mothers. If it was really "equality" it would be very beneficial, but it's not, it's self-worthlessness that is promoted from people we trust the most.
    Obviously decent people will accept it and jeoupardize their success in life and pigs will not and that's exactly what is happening in the world. That's what I am trying to change... with me, not with the world, I can't change the world.

    Give you another example:
    Girl would be leaving a coffee shop with a guy and she looks at me, not at him! Doesn't it tell you something?
    It tells me Move your Ass! She ain't that happy with this guy if she looks at me. She probably wanted me. But I was shy and didn't approach just because I accept the blame for the crimes I didn't do. Why should I be responsible for those "men"?
    Another one:
    She would dance with a guy and look at me! Just because he doesn't have this "nice" "self-worthless" belief, right?

    Saying that everybody is "good" or "nice" is living in denial, and this denial is the cause of destruction of self-esteem, because either you evaluate objectively yourself against others or you always say that you are the one who is the *worst* of everybody and that everybody is better than you.
    That is not only an outrageous lie, it is also not nice to people at all. You are not being nice if you think you are self-wothless. You aren't being nice to anybody, you are letting these pigs abuse you or take advantage of you. Nobody wins from this.

    If I don't hurt a woman even verbally, even after she hurts me, and another guy hurts her, I have full reason to say that I am better than that guy by 100 times, and that he is a disgrace to men. He should keep his mind under control and train himself just like I do and understand what he is dealing with. That it's Ok, if she doesn't want to talk to you, it's not a big deal. Is it my problem or your problem that he didn't invest into himself? No.

    There are manners and there are things you just cannot do. Saying that everybody is the same is 100% lie and I have another rule of life, that is : stick to the truth, the truth is everything. You are not doing anybody a favor if you practically "approve" that kind of disrespectful behaviour by not acknowledging that you are better than them. And it's hyprocritical to accept judgement in school, work and sports towards yourself and from yourself towards others and at the same time say "everybody is equal, everybody is just as good as I am" -Wrong! They aren't. If you judge them, you do judge yourself, so judge objectively and not destructively.

    And another big mistake people do, is lack or denial about marketing. Just like in business, it is not enough to have a great product. It is not enough to be a great guy. It is not enough to be a great girl. You must wear good clothes, you must present yourself.
    You have to assert yourself and push yourself forward for your good and that of women that will be with you and people to whom you are dear! They can't do it for you, they can only watch. There is an Armenian saying: Your health is needed to every person who depends on you. To rephrase that, It's not only about you. If I don't get through with this ridiculous belief, what would happen to women that otherwise could have been with me and enjoy their lives just because they are with a great guy? So, success benefits everyone.

    These "men" shouldn't do that, not 8 out of 10 times, not 1 out of 10 times. At most I could understand that somebody can get really frustrated and do it once in their lifetime just to learn how it feels and not to do it again.

    And it's a horrible thing they do, if they indeed call a woman a name just because she walks out of them. That's just horrible, and I feel very bad about it, it would make me very uncomfortable if I was there.
    I will never say I am their equal, it's just not so. I am better than them, just because I would never do it! And I believe this is the key stone of constructive self-esteem and self-worth that actually will benefit many people.

    If they do it 8 out of 10 times, or even just often enough, no wonder women act the way they do. They already have some level of prejudice, and that's a terrible thing to have. So that means that I have an extra task to not fall into that category. If 6 out of 10 women will not think of me that way, - and they are 100% right - I can consider myself successful enough for this task. I know I can't be 100% successful with prejudices like that.

    That's what I am saying it made me realize just what women have to go through. Just by lightly experiencing it myself. It's obvious to you girls, you live a different life, it's not obvious at all to me.
    And I can't blame women, I have to understand where they are coming from and dissipate the situation to my advantage. If I have a blame or frustration about it, I have to channel it into a something constructive to achieve any kind of constructive results. That's why I like this life. It's a reality, it's not a phylosophy.
    We can think of anything we want, but if our thoughts don't match the rality, they are useless, we would be better off not thinking them.

    I really appreciate your comments, they really made me think, you know, and realize what I just said.

    I wonder, what are the clear signs of these disgraceful "men"? What do they say? How can I completely avoid falling into that category? What's their typical approach line? It's important to me. I need to clearly set myself that I am not like them. Because I am not.

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    Banned i.breathe.in's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    well if nothing else your long winded....

    i dont go out alone much to bars becuase i hate getting cat called by guys.

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    MrXMind
    You remind me SO much of one of my guy friends.

    I'm glad you're learning more about yourself through this thread.

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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Dude, don't worry about guys stressing you. Sometimes people just do that - especially at night and drunk / high.

    I'm kinda large and don't drink. When I'm out, that makes me stand out because I look serious rather than drunk. Because of that, I can't tell you how many times I have had people try and buy drugs from me. I don't sell drugs, but I clearly give off some sort of vibe.

    I once had someone pick a fight with me because I didn't sell him drugs!! I have never even taken drugs - let alone have any spare to sell...

    A different time, I had someone jump me and break my nose - because I was walking past him!!

    There are some bizarre people out there.

    But don't feel sorry. Back then, I used to do kung fu and both times I finished what was started.

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    I like your posts and your style of introspective writing, and your English, though not perfect, is better than that of some native speakers. Don't let criticism drive you off. The harrassment women can face is something every man should understand, and so few do.

    It comes out in little things like strangers on the bus ordering us to smile. I'm struck by how much more this happens to me when I'm dressed up and wearing makeup than when I'm butch and anonymous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iseestars View Post
    i think people like going to parties and clubs and looking like douchebags.

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    this guy is so weird and I don't think it's just a
    cultural divide. I'm not calling troll but something
    feels off to me here.

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    What the HELL?? WHy is this guy getting praise??? SW, where is your critical eye? COME ON! Regardless of the comprehension difficulty, this post was NOT about sympathizing with women and how we get harassed along gender lines because of male socialization and entitlement. This was saying, in the most illogical conclusion I've ever read, that BECAUSe the OP has nice clothes and some sort of personal magnetism and men approach and talk to him on these grounds, he is provided a unique opportunity to assess their characters and conclude that they are lesser men than he is and therefore do not deserve to get women. In addition, any woman is *crazy* if she goes for one of these other, lesser men.

    The logic makes no sense, men are idiots and women have no agency. Great post.

    Why is this guy getting praise???

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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    ^^
    I cant say I bothered to read that novel typed above but the bits I skimmed thru were extremely boring. I wasn't even going to bother posting but after reading your post and agreeing with it I had to.
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    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrXmind View Post
    As for comparison and saying somebody is better than the other one, well, we may object to it, but isn't this what we do in olympics and in grades in school and practically everywhere else?
    But it is not how we derive self worth; I just worry that what you think is self-worth and self-esteem is actually just a momentary vanity.

    If you want to talk to me, say something interesting.
    See, right there^^. That kind of thinking is not related to "self-worth".
    Didn't I hear from girls saying practically the same thing whether online dating or on the street, on how they are fed up with "Hi babe" lines?
    But we don't derive our self-worth by feeling better than those guys either - and if we do, we have a problem.
    Give you another example:
    Girl would be leaving a coffee shop with a guy and she looks at me, not at him! Doesn't it tell you something?
    No. You could have something on your face; she could be looking out the window behind you. She could be absent minded.

    It tells me Move your Ass! She ain't that happy with this guy if she looks at me. She probably wanted me. But I was shy and didn't approach just because I accept the blame for the crimes I didn't do. Why should I be responsible for those "men"?
    So you think that you should approach women who are out with other guys because you are better than these other guys? See, again - that doesn't sound like self-worth; that sounds like vanity and self-entitlement because that is impolite by any social standard.

    Good luck. Seriously. But what you are describing - the conviction that you are better than other guys and deserve to have women while they don't and that conventional rules of courtesy don't apply to you because of it - is indicative of low self-worth, not high self-worth. It screams out "compensation". You mentioned that you had a difficult childhood - it could be related. I really hope that you get to experience true self-worth and self-esteem that actually comes from within you; that kind of worth and esteem will tend to make you kinder, more compassionate and more tolerant and less vain. What you are talking about pits you in constant competition with both men and women, and you obviously can't afford tolerance and understanding if you are preoccupied with feeling better than them so you can feel better about yourself.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  23. #23
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Because he wrote a very long post that very few people read the whole of? I mean, you might get the "I sympathize with women" vibe if you skimmed through the right parts.
    Quote Originally Posted by ColetteCalahan View Post
    What the HELL?? WHy is this guy getting praise??? SW, where is your critical eye? COME ON! Regardless of the comprehension difficulty, this post was NOT about sympathizing with women and how we get harassed along gender lines because of male socialization and entitlement. This was saying, in the most illogical conclusion I've ever read, that BECAUSe the OP has nice clothes and some sort of personal magnetism and men approach and talk to him on these grounds, he is provided a unique opportunity to assess their characters and conclude that they are lesser men than he is and therefore do not deserve to get women. In addition, any woman is *crazy* if she goes for one of these other, lesser men.

    The logic makes no sense, men are idiots and women have no agency. Great post.

    Why is this guy getting praise???
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  24. #24
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    I'm not gonna help you with your introspection, but....

    I have a plausible explanation about the guys later insulting you: Those guys were high/drunk and bored with each other and their night was almost done. Because you were so nattily dressed, the thought you may have been out trolling for guys. So they decided to play along with you to see if they could uncover your postulated "gayness". When they didn't find it, they were deprived of the confirmation of their "discovery." To save all that effort and to avoid looking foolish in their own eyes, they degraded you, which gave them some alternate "fun".

    Hell, that happens all the time with drunk guys.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Interesting self-worth discovery

    Stuart, dude, I can only imagine how it would feel if I was mistaken for a drug dealer. :-). Geez, man, sorry to hear that, but my mind just draws a comedy scetch and how funny it can actually be :-). I appreciate it.

    ChaosFairy - I appreciate your words very much. It seams you understood what I tried to explain. I appreciate it.

    threlayer - that actually makes sense what you said. It didn't clearly occur to me that this could be the case.

    Jenny, thanks for the good luck, I do hope it's not a momentary vanity myself. But it seams we don't understand each other. You just twist everything I say - it's not fair. I did not have a hard childhood. I am not a teen or a 20 year old. I am a 30 year old successful gray haired man.

    No, she wasn't looking on something on my face, I am not stupid, I can distinguish a tense or sexual eye contact with a casual look... neither she was absend minded, nor did I mean I should approach a girl who is already with a guy because I am better than this guy. That's just nonsense.

    I meant she wasn't with a guy before. This guy approached her, I didn't. I didn't because of my destructive beliefs about myself, not about them. Therefore I used it as an example of how these beliefs actually destroy success. This guy, I have nothing against. He is a normal guy and I am happy for him and for her. I should probably learn from him. The context of this example was not about me being better than this guy, like I said, you just twist it and misunderstand. I can't keep up with you, sorry. You've got to find yourself your equal in communication skills, cause I am not.

    Yes, I am better than those guys that shout insluts on me or on you. I don't understand why should I say I am worse. Can you? And I do deserve women a lot more than those guys. Why not? Should I say I deserve them less? So I should say, those guys are my equal or as good as I am? Hell no! They aren't. They should not have scolded me.

    Or what, it's not self-esteem?

    Self esteem is how you estimate yourself. Estimation in absolutely every area of our lives is a relative process. If you estimate yourself, you estimate yourself relative to a scale. The natural scale is "others". If you don't do it, you don't estimate yourself. Or this scale is relative to some standards, right? You can't estimate yourself without a scale. And if your scale is broken, your estimation is incorrect, No?
    And what I estimate is that according to my standards I am higher than those guys that insult a person who walks out on them. What's not fair about it?
    According to their scale, I may be a looser exactly because I don't insult people. Different scales. Which scale is the right one? That's a life that will tell...
    If it's a vanity, then why am I shy? Ever saw a vain person to be shy? Why do I smile and get approached with lines "You look so happy"? Ever saw a nose up vain person smiling and being happy so much that he is approached and commented about that?

    Collette - They praise because they read the post and understood it's meaning the way I intended it to be.
    It's not a simple post. It's not a usual SW post. It's not for everyone. And I appreciate their time. I think they learned something from my logic just as much as I learned from theirs and that's a very good and positive thing. And that's why they praise. I wanted their opinions because I have nobody to talk to. I am incognito here, whether I am praised or not makes no real difference in my life. It's the thoughts that represent me, and they get praised by people who agree with them or appreciate their depth. They aren't for everybody.

    And just because I think this way, doesn't mean I am weird, it only means I am different and I wanted to say "unique" but admeerah said I remind a lot her guy friends, so I am not that unique in that case, which actually is a good thing. There are alot of people with this kind of logic. They can't all be weird.

    And just a note here, I didn't ask them to praise me. In fact I wasn't, most of the responses are not praising are more scolding or neutral. There are just few that seam to get it what I meant, and I appreciate them more than those that just presumed something. I appreciate them more, because they are more valuable to me. It's also fair.
    Last edited by mrXmind; 08-18-2008 at 07:03 AM. Reason: comment

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