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Thread: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    well the implication wasn't that Republicans could ever win the majority of hispanic voter support ... but then they don't have to. Even a 5-10% swing in the hispanic vote (i.e. from say 30% to 35%) could be enough to swing the overall state majority and bestow 100% of that state's electoral votes on the Republican candidate. I also recall that the 'record' level of Republican hispanic voter support in any past election is only 40%.

    Also, where your particular statistics are concerned, they are old to the point of not reflecting the dissing of Hilary Clinton. Here's some old commentary to go along with your old statistics.

    (snip)"Hispanics heavily favor Hillary Clinton for the Democratic Party nomination. The New York Senator is supported by 59% of Latinos who are registered voters and align with the Democratic Party. Illinois Sen. Barack Obama draws 15%; New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson draws 8% and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards 4%."(snip) from

    The glaring point is of course that the vast majority of Democratic support from hispanic voters was centered on Hilary, who is now on the sidelines. Arguably, one reason that hispanic voters favored Hilary was her 'blue collar' appeal ... a trait shared more by Sarah Palin than by Obama & Biden.

    There is also an equally important point in regard to the recent refocusing of the Republican platform via the selection of Sarah Palin ...

    (snip)"According to a 2005 report by the Pew Hispanic Center, 77% of American Hispanics oppose abortion. Thus, the Democrat Party is anathema to the values of the American Hispanic community in terms of life issues. According to the 2005 National Latino Survey, 62% of American Hispanics oppose gay marriage and 48% of registered voters in that same community agree that lowering taxes is the best strategy for encouraging economic growth, as compared to 12% who thought raising taxes is the best strategy. It is true that American Hispanic voters are not firmly attached to either party, and they have voted in sizable numbers for GOP candidates who appeal on values that American Hispanics share. Unfortunately, and with the exception of the Reagan years and the Bush 2004 re-election campaign, the GOP has not yet figured out how to attract American Hispanic voters...not by abandoning core beliefs or by pandering to non-conservative Republican issues, but playing to their strengths. "(snip) from

    but please feel free to keep on doubting !

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    In spite of the views you mentioned above, Hispanics overwhelmingly voted Democrat in 2006. As far as November, I think it's way to early to call the race either way. A lot can happen between now and then.

    Another factor that I don't see many people mentioning is, Bob Barr might take some votes away from McCain. In one poll, I saw him at 5% nationally.
    Last edited by eagle2; 09-06-2008 at 07:44 PM.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    ^^^ oh absolutely true. Bob Barr could be a spoiler a la Ross Perot.

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Interesting that Sen. McCain's speech outdrew Sen. Obama's for the television crowd. I would not have expected that.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    Interesting that Sen. McCain's speech outdrew Sen. Obama's for the television crowd. I would not have expected that.


    I don't see how those numbers could be a reflection for either side. For myself personally, I saw both speeches as a rerun since stations were playing them over several times. I also listened to Obama's speech online.


    I guess people want to analyze everything.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    Interesting that Sen. McCain's speech outdrew Sen. Obama's for the television crowd. I would not have expected that.


    I just looked at Barack Obama's and John McCain's YouTube channels with their speeches and such.


    John McCain's channel - 1,308,115 views since February 23, 2007 and has 17,374 subscribers.

    Barack Obama's channel - 15,882,747 views since September 2006 and has 81,316 subscribers.



    Where do you think the young voters/youtube generation are going....

  7. #32
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    I wasn't analyzing, I was observing. And I wasn't approving, just commenting.

    Good observation on YouTube. Keep in mind that Sen. Obama's had a week longer to play than Sen. McCain's. Still, I'd be quite surprised if McCain were to catch up.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    I wasn't analyzing, I was observing. And I wasn't approving, just commenting.

    Good observation on YouTube. Keep in mind that Sen. Obama's had a week longer to play than Sen. McCain's. Still, I'd be quite surprised if McCain were to catch up.

    Sometimes I wonder if Republicans even realize there is a huge amount of young people out there that are suddenly interested in politics. Barack Obama has used myspace and facebook in an AMAZING way to get the young generation informed and make them feel involved.

    I looked at Facebook because it has a broader age group on it. Barack has 1,698,546 Fans and John McCain has 295,935 Fans. Michele Obama has 102,237 Fans and Biden has 44,233 Fans....I could not find fan pages for Cindy McCain or Sarah Palin. Barack also has pages up on myspace for each state, women, minorities, gays/lesbians, native americans etc etc.


    I get Obama's updates and other people's updates on Obama all the time on Facebook....its awesome

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    Senior Member LadyM's Avatar
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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    there's a big difference between media bias (which Fox has, but arguably so does every other major network and newspaper), and media with an active political agenda i.e. an editorial policy which chooses to report news items with a certain political view while failing to report news items with an alternate political view entirely !



    requesting an exclusive interview and being denied is NOT the same as refusing to cover a 'news event'.
    Melonie, I'm gonna smack you with IBI's catfish. No agenda from Fox? Seriously. Just. Shut. Up.
    "If you don't see the humor in that post, I'm going to smack you with a catfish."~~~ i.breathe.in

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyM View Post
    Melonie, I'm gonna smack you with IBI's catfish. No agenda from Fox? Seriously. Just. Shut. Up.


    LOL!!! Sometimes I think Melonie just likes to get people's wheels turning to talk/think/post.


    Fox is so far to the right in their agenda that I'm surprised the reporters don't fall over at their desks.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    LOL!!! Sometimes I think Melonie just likes to get people's wheels turning to talk/think/post.
    BINGO !

    I mean stop and think about it. This is a dancer's website. The vast majority of dancers are far younger than the population in general. Also, the vast majority of SW dancers are better educated than the population in general. Also, the vast majority of dancers are somewhat 'immune' to changes in income tax rates, a situation which the population in general does not share. Thus the 'natural' political inclinations of young, well educated, non-employee dancers are likely to be significantly different from the 'natural' political inclinations of, say, retirees or middle-aged businessmen or coal miners or hispanic immigrants. If I didn't keep raising alternate viewpoints, it would be very 'natural' for Member's Area political discussions to rapidly flow toward 'Obama Worship' ... but this would disregard the fact that retirees, middle-aged businessmen, coal miners, and hispanic immigrants also vote, and that their lives are impacted in different ways by different political policies than the lives of dancers are !


    Melonie, I'm gonna smack you with IBI's catfish
    Kinky - I like it !

    For the record, obviously Fox News has a partisan viewpoint. But so does MSNBC, and every other network. However my point about BET, Telemundo, UniVision etc. was that their editorial decision to cover the speeches of one party's candidate but NOT cover the speeches of the other party's candidate went far beyond expressing a partisan viewpoint via the commentary of their 'talking heads' as the other networks all did. Arguably this editorial decision on the part of BET, Univision, TeleMundo etc. constituted censorship of news in a blatant attempt to influence the votes of black and hispanic network viewers.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-07-2008 at 07:36 AM.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Or maybe like FoxNews they were just showing their viewers what they prefered to watch. It's not like there are no other channels choices. People have a variety of sources to switch between if they desire.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    ^^^ oh really ? How many other spanish language networks are available in America to watch Palin's speech if both TeleMundo and UniVision have decided not to broadcast it ?

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    oh please! As if none of them speak English or something. Let me clue you in... most of the people in my area which is heavy in Hispanic and immigrant population speak more than one language. In fact, it is the mostly non Hispanic people who speak only one language NOT the other way around.

    Another comment, you mentioned that without you the political theme around here who be dominated by leftwing ideas. Maybe but so fucking what? Ever thought that maybe that is the way the majority of us prefer it?

    I mean seriously, not to hamper your free speech or anything but since your conservative point of view is not really embraced by most here wouldn't you be more happy posting about politics in some far right forum instead of being the fly in the ointment. Do what you want of course, I'm just saying.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Someone who speaks Spanish could have watched Palin's speech on network TV with Spanish subtitles.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Another comment, you mentioned that without you the political theme around here who be dominated by leftwing ideas. Maybe but so fucking what? Ever thought that maybe that is the way the majority of us prefer it?
    You're undoubtedly correct about that, for the reasons that I previously stated. However that reminds me of an old truism ... 'what's the difference between a liberal and a conservative ?' ... 'about 20 years'. It also follows that the majority of 'us', i.e. SW readers, does not represent the majority of the US electorate, or for that matter the majority of exotic dancers.


    Someone who speaks Spanish could have watched Palin's speech on network TV with Spanish subtitles.
    it would appear that majority opinion on this website also favors the idea that there was nothing 'wrong' about BET / TeleMundo / UniVision using the 'public airwaves' to carry Barack Obama's political message, while refusing to do the same for Sarah Palin. If so I truly fear for the future of America !

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-07-2008 at 08:22 PM.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post




    it would appear that majority opinion on this website also favors the idea that there was nothing 'wrong' about BET / TeleMundo / UniVision using the 'public airwaves' to carry Barack Obama's political message, while refusing to do the same for Sarah Palin. I truly fear for the future of America !

    Ok, but you don’t seem to feel the same way about FoxNews. Why is ok for them to show their viewers what they prefer but not ok for any other channel?

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    ^^^ it's OK for Fox News and MS/NBC and CBS and PBS and CNN and Telemundo and Univision and countless other networks to add their own non-objective commentary to news reports. In fact it's expected, as this is how the networks differentiate their 'market audiences'.

    It is NOT OK for these networks to outright censor news reports based on the fact that the subject matter doesn't happen to agree with network editorial policy. It is even worse for these networks to report one side of a fundamentally two-sided news story (i.e. political conventions) while totally avoiding the reporting of the other side.

    Your repeated attempts to equate the non-objective commentary by Fox News while carrying both the Democratic and Republican conventions with the outright refusal of BET / Univision / Telemundo to cover the Republican convention after first covering the Democratic convention just isn't going to gain any 'traction' despite the fact that the majority of SWers may in fact disagree strongly with Fox's non-objective commentary and agree with the non-objective commentary of MS/NBC and CBS and PBS. What BET / TeleMundo / Univision did was akin to news coverage in Russia or China.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    It is NOT OK for these networks to outright censor news reports based on the fact that the subject matter doesn't happen to agree with network editorial policy. It is even worse for these networks to report one side of a fundamentally two-sided news story

    Oh please, give us a fucking break! When you start complaining about the fact that Fox is doing that day in and day out for years on end then maybe we will take your comments about this issue worth more than a grain of salt.

    You can continue to defend Fox while defaming BET all you want, I really don’t care. It’s hypocritical as all get out but whatever.

    People have a choice on what they wish to watch and pick according to preference. As cable networks they have the right to show programming to appeal to their audience even if you or I don’t like their decisions. It’s part of capitalism. Deal with it.

    I’m not going to continue to argue with you about it either, sorry.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    that I previously stated. However that reminds me of 'what's the difference between a liberal and a conservative ?' ... 'about 20 years'. .
    I heard something similar the other day and I'll paraphrase it...

    'If you're 25 and aren't liberal, you have no heart. If you're 45 and aren't conservative you have no brain". Or something to that effect.



    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    it would appear that majority opinion on this website also favors the idea that there was nothing 'wrong' about BET / TeleMundo / UniVision using the 'public airwaves' to carry Barack Obama's political message, while refusing to do the same for Sarah Palin. If so I truly fear for the future of America !

    ~
    I wonder if the same people who have no problem with the selective coverage would feel the same if their candidate was the one being denied airtime?
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    To be honest, BET is a fucking joke. They pander to unintelligent black people who, believe it or not, are the minority. I hate BET. I wish they would actually have Black Entertainment Television as opposed to "ghetto entertainment television" which is what it is now. Black people care about more than Hell Date, reruns of old black shows and booty popping. We would like to see all the debates, the news, discussions about issues that affect America, etc. Sorry for my BET rant but I really really hate it. Really.
    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Ya'll bitches need to calm down. Cerously.
    In other words: Boo-motherfucking-hoo

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    It is NOT OK for these networks to outright censor news reports based on the fact that the subject matter doesn't happen to agree with network editorial policy. It is even worse for these networks to report one side of a fundamentally two-sided news story (i.e. political conventions) while totally avoiding the reporting of the other side.

    Your repeated attempts to equate the non-objective commentary by Fox News while carrying both the Democratic and Republican conventions with the outright refusal of BET / Univision / Telemundo to cover the Republican convention after first covering the Democratic convention just isn't going to gain any 'traction' despite the fact that the majority of SWers may in fact disagree strongly with Fox's non-objective commentary and agree with the non-objective commentary of MS/NBC and CBS and PBS. What BET / TeleMundo / Univision did was akin to news coverage in Russia or China.
    Networks are free to cover or not cover any events they choose. Given Obama is the first African American to be nominated by one of the two major parties, I would expect BET to cover the Democratic convention since it's viewership would overwhelmingly be interested in watching it. Also, given 90% or more of African Americans do not support the Republican Party, most of them would not have interest in watching the Republican Convention and would probably not watch it, if it was being covered by BET. I'm sure that anyone who wanted to watch the Republican convention would have not problem finding it on the television.

    I'm a lot more concerned about a network telling outright lies to smear one party or favor another party, such as labeling a Republican sexual predator as a Democrat:



    or labeling a Republican Senator grilling a corrupt Republican Attorney General as a Democrat:



    or showing a Republican convicted felon as found not guilty


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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    there are all sorts of such examples available from all mainstream media outlets. You can ask Chris Matthews about that, given that he has 'coincidentally' been fired from his anchor job at MSNBC immediately following his 'unbiased' Republican convention coverage.




    However, the 'larger picture' is arguably far more important ...

    (snip)"By a 39% to 20% margin, American adults believe that the three major broadcast networks deliver news with a bias in favor of liberals. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 25% believe that ABC, CBS, and NBC deliver the news without any bias.

    Similar results are found for CNN and National Public Radio (NPR). By a margin of 33% to 16%, Americans say that CNN has a liberal bias. The nation’s adults say the same about NPR by a 27% to 14% margin.

    There is one major exception to the belief that media outlets have a liberal bias—Fox News. Thirty-one percent (31%) of Americans say it has a bias that favors conservatives while 15% say it has a liberal bias.

    When it comes to delivering news without bias, 37% believe NPR accomplishes that goal. Thirty-six percent (36%) say the same for Fox and 32% believe it’s true of CNN. As noted earlier, just 25% believe the major broadcast networks deliver news in an unbiased manner. Results for other media outlets will be released over the next week.

    Media fairness has emerged as a debate on Capitol Hill following the recent debate on immigration when public opinion overwhelmed the will of the Senate. Some lawmakers have called for a re-introduction of the “Fairness Doctrine” requiring stations to air competing points of view. Rasmussen Reports will release data on public attitudes towards that concept over the weekend.

    Not surprisingly, there are huge partisan and ideological differences in the data. For example, among self-identified liberals, all of the media outlets are believed to have some net bias in favor of conservatives. However, 50% of liberals say that NPR is unbiased. Forty-three percent (43%) say the same about CNN. As for the major television networks, 49% of liberals believe they have a conservative bias. Just 10% of liberals see a liberal bias at ABC, CBS, and NBC.

    Conservatives throughout the nation see things entirely differently. Sixty-two percent (62%) see a liberal bias at the major broadcast networks and 55% say the same about CNN. Forty-five percent (45%) of conservatives see Fox as unbiased and the rest are evenly divided. Eighteen percent (18%) of conservatives see Fox News as having a liberal bias while 21% say the opposite.

    Younger adults are less likely than their elders to see a liberal bias across all of the media outlets.

    On a partisan basis, Democrats see the major television networks and Fox as biased in favor of conservatives. Solid pluralities of Democrats believe CNN and NPR deliver news without bias. Those Democrats who see bias at CNN and NPR are fairly evenly divided, but are a bit more likely to detect conservative bias.

    Republicans see a strong liberal bias on all the outlets except Fox. Forty-nine percent (49%) of the GOP faithful see Fox as fair and balanced.

    Those not affiliated with either major party tend to see a liberal bias everywhere except Fox. Thirty-eight percent (38%) of unaffiliateds see a liberal bias at the major television networks while only 19% see a conservative bias.

    During Election 2004, 38% of voters thought CBS News anchorman Dan Rather was actively trying to help John Kerry win the election. Other data showed that voters tended to select news sources based upon their political preferences. "(snip)




    ultimately thr last sentence in the link report gravitates right back to the assertion that the majority of SW'ers hold a political viewpoint that is not typical of most American voters / viewers.


    I would expect BET to cover the Democratic convention since it's viewership would overwhelmingly be interested in watching it. Also, given 90% or more of African Americans do not support the Republican Party, most of them would not have interest in watching the Republican Convention and would probably not watch it, if it was being covered by BET
    this provides the opportunity to make an important point. Pragmatically speaking, BET network can get away with doing what they did in regard to selective coverage because their target audience is limited to urban black viewers and because their investors do not expect an expansion beyond the current target audience. UniVision can get away with this too because they are a tiny component of General Electric, because they already hold a major share of their target audience, and because few non spanish speaking people are paying attention to their programming. But MSNBC is a different story. While still a relatively small component of General Electric, there is both a much higher level of 'visibility' and a direct bond to NBC ... such that stockholders, NBC news, and other media are much more likely to hold corporate NBC management accountable for MSNBC's news division's 'antics' as well as for MSNBC's shrinking audience share. Thus the recent replacement of Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-09-2008 at 02:27 AM.

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    BINGO !

    I mean stop and think about it. This is a dancer's website. The vast majority of dancers are far younger than the population in general. Also, the vast majority of SW dancers are better educated than the population in general. Also, the vast majority of dancers are somewhat 'immune' to changes in income tax rates, a situation which the population in general does not share. Thus the 'natural' political inclinations of young, well educated, non-employee dancers are likely to be significantly different from the 'natural' political inclinations of, say, retirees or middle-aged businessmen or coal miners or hispanic immigrants. If I didn't keep raising alternate viewpoints, it would be very 'natural' for Member's Area political discussions to rapidly flow toward 'Obama Worship' ... but this would disregard the fact that retirees, middle-aged businessmen, coal miners, and hispanic immigrants also vote, and that their lives are impacted in different ways by different political policies than the lives of dancers are !


    ~
    Actually that's a lazy, lumping assumption. There is the assumption based on past elections that states the military is almost always pro-republican. You'd be surprised at how many ppl in the services can't stand their commander in chief and aren't going to be voting for his party in Nov.

    If anything, the past few years have taught us that what was 'traditional' when it comes to the electorate is now anything but that.
    "If you don't see the humor in that post, I'm going to smack you with a catfish."~~~ i.breathe.in

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    Default Re: the REAL news behind the news re Palin's TV audience

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    (snip)"By a 39% to 20% margin, American adults believe that the three major broadcast networks deliver news with a bias in favor of liberals. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 25% believe that ABC, CBS, and NBC deliver the news without any bias.
    Surveys don't prove anything. I'm sure that a good number of Americans believe the media has a liberal bias because conservative commentators and politicians are always railing against the "liberal media". The only accurate way to determine how biased a news network or newpaper is, is to go through the stories reported and track how many are biased towards liberals or conservatives or are neutral.

    During the impeachment trial, the media was way more conservative than Americans in general. There were newspapers all over the country calling for President Clinton to step down, while the American people were overwhelmingly against it.

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