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    Default vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    sometimes it requires a more distant 'foreign' viewpoint to clearly see what Americans can't - because the Americans are too close to 'focus' on the big picture.


    (snip)"So let's stipulate one obvious and important piece of wisdom about US elections. The choice of a vice-presidential candidate rarely makes much of a difference. The pundit class waxes historical in the excitement of the moment but usually the vice-presidential choices go back to playing second banana. However mawkishly we dwell on the mortality of the presidential contenders, it is they who determine the voters' decision.

    This one, to be fair, could be different. For at least the next few weeks the press will follow Mrs Palin's present and dig deeper into her past, still hoping for some morsel of stupidity or evidence of cupidity to doom her. But in the end, barring such a discovery, this is still an Obama-McCain contest.

    But let me try to explain why Mrs Palin, whatever impact she might have in November, may be a figure of real consequence in our lives.

    It's partly about what she represents and partly about what she has already done, but mostly about where she and her ilk might take the Republicans - and possibly America.

    It never ceases to amaze me how the Left falls again and again into the old trap of underestimating politicians whom they don't understand. From Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to George Bush and Mrs Palin, they do it every time. Because these characters talk a bit funny and have ridiculously antiquated views about faith, family and nation, because they haven't spent time bending the knee to the intellectual metropolitan elites, they can't be taken seriously.

    So the general expectation was that Mrs Palin would stumble on to the stage in high heels, clutching her sprawling, slightly odd family (five children! how weird), mispronounce the name of the Russian Prime Minister, mutter a few platitudes about God, and disappear for ever to a deafening chorus of sniggers.

    No one paid much attention to the fact that she had been elected governor of a state. Or that she got to that office not because, unlike some politicians I could mention, her husband had been there before her, or because she bleated continuously about glass ceilings, but by challenging the entrenched interests in her own party and beating them. In almost two years as Governor she has cleaned out the Augean stables of Alaskan Government. You don't win a statewide election and enjoy approval ratings of more than 80 per cent without real political talent.

    Never mind all that. She didn't have a passport! She was a former beauty queen! It was so axiomatic that she was a disaster that I was told by lots of savvy men - with deliciously unconscious sexism - that the real problem was what the choice said about Mr McCain and his judgment: cynical, irresponsible, clueless. It was as if Mrs Palin wasn't really a human being at all, but an article of Mr McCain's clothing that showed his poor taste, like wearing brown shoes with a charcoal suit.

    So here's why she matters.

    First of all she offers an opportunity for an ailing Republican party to reconnect with ordinary Americans. She's conservative, but her conservatism is not that of the intolerant, uncomprehending white male sort that has so hurt the party in recent years. She is much closer to a model of the lives of ordinary Americans - working mother, plainspoken everywoman juggling home and office - than any Republican leader in memory.

    The contrast with Mr Obama is especially powerful. The very fact that Mrs Palin didn't go to elite schools but succeeded nonetheless - the very ordinariness with which she so piquantly jabbed Mr Obama on Wednesday - is what will make her so appealing to Americans. And as a pro-life conservative she debunks in one swoop the enduring myth that all women subscribe to the obligatory nostrums of radical feminism.

    But there's more to it than that.

    The Republicans have decided that they are not going to make the mistake Hillary Clinton made and run against the effervescent Mr Obama on the premise of experience.

    Experience hasn't got Americans into a very comfortable place. They want change. Before he signed up to some of the less attractive Republican attitudes this year, Mr McCain's career had embodied that change - the anti-establishment candidate running against his own party. Now he is joined by a woman who, in her short career, has done the same thing.

    Democrats think that Mr McCain, with the social conservative Mrs Palin, will launch an old-fashioned culture war at them, using her appealing manner to drive a populist assault on the familiar Republican issues of God, guns and gays.

    Perhaps this Manichean interpretation will prove true. But I suspect that it misses the real appeal of the Republican team. The opportunity for McCain-Palin is not reaction, but reform - a reform rooted in a distant conservatism that could be due for a comeback

    Hailing from Arizona and Alaska, the Republican ticket has a chance to rekindle a western conservatism different from the old Yankee paternalist sort or the Bible Belt version. They like their guns out there (some still kill their own food) and they are pro-life and deeply pro-America, of course. But at a time of grave challenges, the themes of economic freedom and opportunity, the resistance to the idea that government holds all the answers, could resonate with voters.

    This is an election, as the Democrats have realised all along, about an America on the cusp of change. With the moose-hunting, establishment-taunting Mrs Palin at his side, Mr McCain might represent a bigger change than the one that his opponents are offering. "(snip)

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    ^^^Yes, let's take a look at further foreign viewpoints, here's a few more takes:

    (snip)"But what intrigues the French is not so much her good looks or her achievements as a working mother. France has plenty of glamorous female politicians, many of them with large families. What intrigues the secular and still left-leaning French is how the choice of Ms Palin, an anti-abortion, creationist Christian, has pushed the candidacy of Mr McCain to the right and transformed the US presidential contest into a battle of values rather than policies. “The choice of Ms Palin turned the centrist John McCain into the ”heir to Bush”, Le Monde said in an editorial." (end snip)

    (snip)"Writing in the conservative Le Figaro, Nicole Bacharan, a French historian, said the arrival of Ms Palin would ”trigger the eruption of moral intolerance in the campaign”."(end snip)

    (snip)"Closer to the US, in Canada, French-speaking media were more hostile. “To paraphrase Martin Luther King, today we could say: “I had a nightmare,” wrote Lysiane Gagnon, of La Presse, a French speaking daily newspaper of Montreal. ”Worst is that this nightmare seems realistic, taking into account the age and the health of John McCain.”

    She condemned John McCain, anointed as the Republican presidential candidate on Wednesday, for “being ready to give the vice presidency to an uncultured woman with archaic convictions, without any serious political experience, only to rally the fundamentalists. This is no longer impetuousness, but madness”.(end snip)

    (snip)"“Sarah Palin is the image of a certain superheroine, but don’t expect John McCain’s running mate to fight for female rights” claimed Joyce McMillan on the Scotsman. “It is the age of Sarah Palin, the Wonder Woman who … puts her formidable power at the disposal of the male leader, to use as he sees fit.”(end snip)

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d9c729e0-7...077b07658.html

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    ^^^more?

    (snip)"From Vienna, the Kurier described the nomination of Sarah Palin as evidence of the polarization of US society. "The crisis in which the country found itself in recent years did nothing to unite it, whatever Obama says. On the contrary, it deepened divisions. Bush did not win elections thanks to moderates, but because he managed to mobilize the country's right-wing. With her angry narrow-mindedness, gun-toting Palin has given these people back their pride, even with her weaknesses."(end snip)

    (snip)"In France, the center-left daily Le Monde also focused as much on Palin as McCain. "In recent months it looked as though it would be the moderate Republicans who decided the vote for McCain," it wrote. "But his choice of Sarah Palin as running mate is an attempt to win over the right wing of the party. He is keen to take a stand against the Harvard-educated elites, as supposedly embodied by his Democratic rival Barack Obama. One would have expected him to distance himself from the very unpopular George W. Bush, but the convention in Minneapolis reflected the current administration's politics. McCain is indeed what the Obama camp would paint him: a natural heir to Bush." (end snip)

    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...620450,00.html

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    ^^^ I'm sure I'm not speaking only for myself when I say I couldn't care less what some European or Canadian thinks about any of our candidates. Americans should be focused on electing the ticket that best serves Americans and nothing else.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    ^^^ I'm sure I'm not speaking only for myself when I say I couldn't care less what some European or Canadian thinks about any of our candidates. Americans should be focused on electing the ticket that best serves Americans and nothing else.
    That worked pretty well with GWB didn't it?

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head View Post
    That worked pretty well with GWB didn't it?
    Rather than trash Bush, why not illuminate me as to why their opinion should matter to me?
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Rather than trash Bush
    But it's so easy.

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    why not illuminate me as to why their opinion should matter to me?
    Heaven forbid we have good international relations with our allies. Did you notice how few of them were fighting with us in Iraq? A little help would have been nice don't you think? Perhaps it would also be a benefit when dealing with rogue nations like Iran, North Korea, and now Russia or in the fight on terrorism?

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Yeah, international relations are incredibly important, and ours has dwindled over the years. Look at how many countries started out in Iraq with us compared to how many are now. Our weak economy and weak dollar are not helping us out there either. So the more allies we have, the better at this point.






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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    It's interesting to note that the commentary from the press in various 'allied' countries appears to EXACTLY follow along the lines of those countries' 'help' in the current middle east conflict. Not meaning to drift too far off topic, but this implies that it is the WORLD that is becoming more polarized right along with America. Logically, it also follows that those countries whose press has dissed McCain and Palin also follow political policies that Obama strongly supports.

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head View Post
    Heaven forbid we have good international relations with our allies. Did you notice how few of them were fighting with us in Iraq? A little help would have been nice don't you think? Perhaps it would also be a benefit when dealing with rogue nations like Iran, North Korea, and now Russia or in the fight on terrorism?
    Good international relations with our allies ( while important ) are less important than doing what is in America's best interests. To not do something felt to be in America's best interests because it might make some European country unhappy would be ridiculous.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Good international relations with our allies ( while important ) are less important than doing what is in America's best interests. To not do something felt to be in America's best interests because it might make some European country unhappy would be ridiculous.
    Who's attempting to do this? Or even proposing this?

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head View Post
    Who's attempting to do this? Or even proposing this?
    You seem to be suggesting that we should be concerned what liberal foreigners think of our candidates because that will affect whether they sipport our actions internationally down the road.

    Weren't you implying that we had little support in Iraq because Bush was unpopular?
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    You seem to be suggesting that we should be concerned what liberal foreigners think of our candidates because that will affect whether they sipport our actions internationally down the road.

    Weren't you implying that we had little support in Iraq because Bush was unpopular?
    Where did I mention liberal foreigners? Wouldn't diplomatic pressure coming from multiple countries be more effective than diplomatic pressure coming from the U.S. alone? There was/is little support for Bush on Iraq not because he's unpopular but because he was wrong on it (which in turn helped make him unpopular).

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head View Post
    Where did I mention liberal foreigners? Wouldn't diplomatic pressure coming from multiple countries be more effective than diplomatic pressure coming from the U.S. alone? There was/is little support for Bush on Iraq not because he's unpopular but because he was wrong on it (which in turn helped make him unpopular).
    The link you provided referenced several left-of-center foreign media sources, hence my liberal foreigners comment.

    Diplomatic pressure needs to backed up with the threat of force and that force is always applied by the US, with or without a coalition. Other countries might be useful in convincing foes that the US means business and to that extent they might be useful, but make no mistake, any capitulation on their part is mainly due to fear of what we might do them militarily.

    As you might have sensed, I am of the opinion that diplomatic pressure is overrated.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    It never ceases to amaze me how the Left falls again and again into the old trap of underestimating politicians whom they don't understand. From Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to George Bush and Mrs Palin, they do it every time. Because these characters talk a bit funny and have ridiculously antiquated views about faith, family and nation, because they haven't spent time bending the knee to the intellectual metropolitan elites, they can't be taken seriously.
    With Bush, it wasn’t so much as underestimating him, as it was overestimating the American people. It was clear to everyone who knew anything about Bush, other than those who share his extreme views, how bad he is for the country. Unfortunately he was able to convince close to half the country in that he is a “compassionate conservative” in 2000 and in 2004 he was able to take enough political advantage of 9-11 to convince a slight majority of voters to choose him. Eight years later, most Americans see how big of a mistake it was to elect him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    So the general expectation was that Mrs Palin would stumble on to the stage in high heels, clutching her sprawling, slightly odd family (five children! how weird), mispronounce the name of the Russian Prime Minister, mutter a few platitudes about God, and disappear for ever to a deafening chorus of sniggers.
    I don’t think anyone was expecting that, given all she was doing was reading a speech someone else wrote for her, that she had three days to practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    No one paid much attention to the fact that she had been elected governor of a state. Or that she got to that office not because, unlike some politicians I could mention, her husband had been there before her, or because she bleated continuously about glass ceilings, but by challenging the entrenched interests in her own party and beating them. In almost two years as Governor she has cleaned out the Augean stables of Alaskan Government. You don't win a statewide election and enjoy approval ratings of more than 80 per cent without real political talent.
    She beat an incumbent governor that was so unpopular, he couldn’t place better than third place in his own party’s primary. Her 80 percent approval rating was mostly due to the rise in oil prices, which allowed her to increase the annual payments Alaskans receive from the oil companies by $1,000. From what I’ve read, at the time she was asked to run as McCain's VP, her approval rating had fallen to 65 percent and was in a downward spiral.

    .

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    So here's why she matters.

    First of all she offers an opportunity for an ailing Republican party to reconnect with ordinary Americans. She's conservative, but her conservatism is not that of the intolerant, uncomprehending white male sort that has so hurt the party in recent years.
    Yes it is. She is just as cruel and heartless as any of them are. She just happens to look better. She cut funding by over a million dollars for the Covenant House Alaska, which provides shelter for teen mothers who need a place to live. Using her line item veto, she cut their budget from $5 million to $3.9 billion.


    She is also opposed to abortion in cases of rape and incest and is against any form of sex-education other than "abstinence only" education.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Experience hasn't got Americans into a very comfortable place. They want change. Before he signed up to some of the less attractive Republican attitudes this year, Mr McCain's career had embodied that change - the anti-establishment candidate running against his own party. Now he is joined by a woman who, in her short career, has done the same thing.
    I see little difference between Palin and the right wing ideologues that Americans overwhelmingly threw out of office in 2006.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Democrats think that Mr McCain, with the social conservative Mrs Palin, will launch an old-fashioned culture war at them, using her appealing manner to drive a populist assault on the familiar Republican issues of God, guns and gays.
    She’s already done this in Alaska.

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I don’t think anyone was expecting that, given all she was doing was reading a speech someone else wrote for her, that she had three days to practice.
    Most of the speech was not simply read, the teleprompter malfunctioned. What about Obama? Others write his speeches and he reads them.



    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    She beat an incumbent governor that was so unpopular, he couldn’t place better than third place in his own party’s primary. Her 80 percent approval rating was mostly due to the rise in oil prices, which allowed her to increase the annual payments Alaskans receive from the oil companies by $1,000. From what I’ve read, at the time she was asked to run as McCain's VP, her approval rating had fallen to 65 percent and was in a downward spiral.
    A 65% approval rating is still damn good.



    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Yes it is. She is just as cruel and heartless as any of them are. She just happens to look better. She cut funding by over a million dollars for the Covenant House Alaska, which provides shelter for teen mothers who need a place to live. Using her line item veto, she cut their budget from $5 million to $3.9 billion.
    First off, it was $3.9 million ( not billion ) and it represented a significant increase over the preceding year's budget, so the $5M was a proposal, not money they ever actually had in previous years.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Most of the speech was not simply read, the teleprompter malfunctioned. What about Obama? Others write his speeches and he reads them.
    Wrong. He does have help from this guy to edit and polish them though. And please read the whole article and not just the title.
    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Ya'll bitches need to calm down. Cerously.
    In other words: Boo-motherfucking-hoo

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Luscious View Post
    Wrong. He does have help from this guy to edit and polish them though. And please read the whole article and not just the title.
    I suppose I misspoke. I meant only to imply that his speeches are not solo acts, nor or any politicians. In her case, she had just a few days between learning she'd be giving a speech and actually giving it. In that regard, I'm sure Biden got a lot of help as well with his speech.

    Moreover, neither Biden nor Palin are on the top of the ticket, so they are operating uder a different set of rules from either McCain or Obama.
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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post

    First off, it was $3.9 million ( not billion ) and it represented a significant increase over the preceding year's budget, so the $5M was a proposal, not money they ever actually had in previous years.
    I meant 3.9 million, not billion. Thanks for catching it.

    She still cut more than $1 million of funding that was approved by the state legislature.

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    ^^^ I must have missed 'liberal math' class ... where a significant gov't budget increase can be referred to as a 'spending cut' because the amount of spending increase was less than the gov't agency / department had asked for !

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    One year's budget has nothing to do with another year's budget. A budget is an amount of money allocated for a specific time period in the future. Here is a specific definition:

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/budget

    an estimate, often itemized, of expected income and expense for a given period in the future.

    The state legislature allocated $5 million dollars for "Covenant House Alaska" in the state budget. Governor Palin reduced this amount to $3.9 million. That is a funding cut of more than $1 million.

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    She did manage to find $400,000 of government money to spend educating Alaskans about aerial wolf hunting.

    http://dwb.adn.com/front/story/9253882p-9168881c.html

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    ^^^ But Eagle, that's how the system works. local officials propose and pass spending bills with full knowledge that the governor will make adjustments. This enables them to say "I'm fighting for you" to their constituents when they realize they'll never get alll of the proposal. This way they remain popular and get to blame the mean governor for not caring about the people.

    As for the money for aerial huinting, I disapprove of it as I do all sport hunting, but she probably saved at least that much getting rid of the governor's plane and staff at the mansion.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: vastly different take on Sarah Palin

    I doubt that poor teen mothers are a very powerful constituency. From the following article, it looks like the additional $1.1 million would have been very helpful.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...enage-mothers/

    (snip)"Our house is full, help us build a new home,” proclaims the Web site for Covenant House Alaska, a program that helps younger people, including teenage mothers.(snip)

    (snip)Still, the lost $1.1 million may delay a $22 million project to expand an emergency shelter, which is open 24 hours a day and provides food, counseling, medical care and a place to sleep for troubled youths ages 13 to 20 years old. Some teenagers later move on to transitional housing, including Passage House, which serves young mothers with babies.(snip)

    The fact that she cut more than $1 million in funding for this home while she spent $400,000 to support aerial hunting of wolves shows where this woman's priorities are.

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