Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 126

Thread: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

  1. #51
    God/dess Raziel's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 989 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by AChildOfBoredom View Post
    I’m sorry, but you really gloss over a lot, and forget or simply take into account that Christianity has a long lineage of taking that exact same course of action to an extreme. Building churches on grounds which were once temples of other faiths. If that’s not trolling to an extreme, then tell me what it is, then?

    Then there is, of course, the manner of dates which “Christian” holidays happen to fall on, and even the common visual image of Satan - nowhere in Scripture is such an image described. That image is largely derived from Pan.

    And speaking of whitewashing, there’s the story of the Puritans. “They came to the New World for religious freedom and escape persecution”, you’re told. No, they came here because Europe wasn’t content to simply let them murder their way through Europe for the sake of imposing their denomination on everyone else (it regardless a long-standing history of exactly that happening).
    Hun, i want to preface this with this: Im not trying to piss you off.

    If your talking about Christmas, Christians didn't steal it. Lots of religions have holidays around then, it isn't just Christians. It makes sense, that's when everybody's down! It's just the Winter Solstice. A lot of folks make a holiday around there, the Romans did it (Saturnalia), so did the celts (Yule). I really don't think the Christians STOLE it. Everybody else did it so why not them.

    Clarification: That's the only part of your post i am disagreeing with, only that. The rest i agree with.
    Last edited by Raziel; 07-17-2020 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  2. #52
    God/dess
    Joined
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,142
    Thanks
    1,158
    Thanked 1,112 Times in 673 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I didn't choose to be white and I would never contribute or support any organization involved in slavery, lynching, etc.. In most cases, Christians are Christian by choice, which there is nothing wrong with, but many Christians are willing to financially support the horrible things their leaders and clergy do. I personally know a lawyer who has been involved in many cases against the Catholic Church, and the Church has made an all out effort avoid compensating those who were victimized by their priests as children, as well as to protect their priests.
    99% of those Catholic pedophile priests were white men and 99% of the child molesters in the US are white men. 99% of the attorneys that defend them are white men. So, why are you hating on the Catholic church and not on white men? These pedophiles could have just as easily been pedophile teachers, athletic coaches, police officers, uncles, etc. The Catholic church did not make them pedophiles. They used the Catholic church to hide under the pretense of religious celibacy and because the position of priest gave them access to children, just like they could have used a teaching or athletic coaching position to gain access to kids. The Catholic Church was just a convenient place for these sick bastards, like Penn State was a convenient place for Jerry Sandusky and USA gymnastics was a convenient place for Lawrence Gerard Nassar.

    With your taxes, you support police officers that stop people for driving while black, and until recently, have been able to kill blacks with impunity. You support a government that puts innocent children in cages and lets them die of neglect. Have you any idea what this government has done in the name of holy democracy, but, really just to protect American business interests abroad? In South and Central America, we have toppled democratically elected leaders because they were sympathetic to the poor and we had an irrational fear of communist sympathizers, so we would replace them with ruthless and corrupt dictators that were friendly to US business interests. We live in one of the most corrupts countries in the planet, but, we call giving money to dirty politicians "campaign contributions", so, it sounds clean and less like corruption. You are probably patriotic and love being an American, despite the sordid history of evils and corruption of this country. I'm not anti-American, I just don't deceive myself about human institutions. They all carry baggage of corruption and evils.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    If you don't like the idea of an organization calling itself, "the Church of Satan", why not just ignore them and pretend they don't exist? I doubt that you ever see them or come in contact with them.
    I've never protested the Church of Satan and I could care less about them. Most of the individuals are probably very nice people. It came up in this thread and I voiced my opinion that it is disrespectful to create a new religion solely for the purpose of mocking and attacking another religion. That is all. I am not on a crusade against them.
    Women are meant to be loved, not to be understood.
    - Oscar Wilde

  3. #53
    God/dess
    Joined
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,142
    Thanks
    1,158
    Thanked 1,112 Times in 673 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by AChildOfBoredom View Post
    I’m sorry, but you really gloss over a lot, and forget or simply take into account that Christianity has a long lineage of taking that exact same course of action to an extreme. Building churches on grounds which were once temples of other faiths. If that’s not trolling to an extreme, then tell me what it is, then?
    That's ancient history and all conquering people did the same thing. Pagans did it to other Pagans. If the Pagan Romans conquered your city, you can bet that the largest temple in your city would be reconfigured as a temple to Jupiter. The Romans accepted other gods and goddesses, but, their own took primacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by AChildOfBoredom View Post
    Then there is, of course, the manner of dates which “Christian” holidays happen to fall on, and even the common visual image of Satan - nowhere in Scripture is such an image described. That image is largely derived from Pan.
    When Pagans converted to Christianity, they did not want to give up their festivals, so, the Pagan holidays were reconfigured and rebranded. That is not stealing holidays, that is accommodating to new converts and adding another holiday to the calendar. It was a win-win.

    Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and also to tempt Jesus. I'm sure he shows up in many other places, but, those are the two I can remember right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by AChildOfBoredom View Post
    And speaking of whitewashing, there’s the story of the Puritans. “They came to the New World for religious freedom and escape persecution”, you’re told. No, they came here because Europe wasn’t content to simply let them murder their way through Europe for the sake of imposing their denomination on everyone else (it regardless a long-standing history of exactly that happening).
    I do not know about Puritans, but, you could have also brought up the inquisition. Hate, ignorance, corruption, radicalization and narcissism infiltrates all human institutions. Things like the inquisition where more about politics and power than about Jesus. It was a betrayal of everything Jesus taught. When the church was at its zenith of power is when it was most corrupt. Positions of power attracts Machievellians that seek the power and pose as whatever is necessary to give them the path to power.
    Women are meant to be loved, not to be understood.
    - Oscar Wilde

  4. #54
    God/dess Raziel's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 989 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    99% of those Catholic pedophile priests were white men and 99% of the child molesters in the US are white men. 99% of the attorneys that defend them are white men. So, why are you hating on the Catholic church and not on white men? These pedophiles could have just as easily been pedophile teachers, athletic coaches, police officers, uncles, etc. The Catholic church did not make them pedophiles. They used the Catholic church to hide under the pretense of religious celibacy and because the position of priest gave them access to children, just like they could have used a teaching or athletic coaching position to gain access to kids. The Catholic Church was just a convenient place for these sick bastards, like Penn State was a convenient place for Jerry Sandusky and USA gymnastics was a convenient place for Lawrence Gerard Nassar.

    With your taxes, you support police officers that stop people for driving while black, and until recently, have been able to kill blacks with impunity. You support a government that puts innocent children in cages and lets them die of neglect. Have you any idea what this government has done in the name of holy democracy, but, really just to protect American business interests abroad? In South and Central America, we have toppled democratically elected leaders because they were sympathetic to the poor and we had an irrational fear of communist sympathizers, so we would replace them with ruthless and corrupt dictators that were friendly to US business interests. We live in one of the most corrupts countries in the planet, but, we call giving money to dirty politicians "campaign contributions", so, it sounds clean and less like corruption. You are probably patriotic and love being an American, despite the sordid history of evils and corruption of this country. I'm not anti-American, I just don't deceive myself about human institutions. They all carry baggage of corruption and evils.



    I've never protested the Church of Satan and I could care less about them. Most of the individuals are probably very nice people. It came up in this thread and I voiced my opinion that it is disrespectful to create a new religion solely for the purpose of mocking and attacking another religion. That is all. I am not on a crusade against them.
    Well that was well written.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    That's ancient history and all conquering people did the same thing. Pagans did it to other Pagans. If the Pagan Romans conquered your city, you can bet that the largest temple in your city would be reconfigured as a temple to Jupiter. The Romans accepted other gods and goddesses, but, their own took primacy.
    Honestly the Romans didn't do that. They were remarkably religiously tolerant of their colonies. They believed that the local Gods were just their own Gods under a different name. Caesar, for example, only outlawed Human sacrifice when he took over Gaul. He was utterly ruthless in everything else (including fucking 16 year old Cleopatra when he was in his 50's, not that she minded). He didn't change anything else. The Celts were still allowed to worship Taranis (Storm God) and Epona (Goddess of Horses)


    Jack, i'm very understanding of your beliefs. You're a devout Catholic. So is my entire family. I consider myself an Agnostic (NOT an Atheist). I'm the odd man out.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  5. #55
    God/dess
    Joined
    Oct 2018
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,546
    Thanks
    4,562
    Thanked 7,021 Times in 2,699 Posts
    My Mood
    Amazed

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Let me get back to this when I’m on my computer rather than trying to type it out on a phone screen. Plus I’m sitting in a tow truck waiting for my next call, so I’d rather not start and be interrupted.
    Written on the walls at the house of sorrow
    You can find the names of those who burned
    Greater yet, the pain in little drawings
    I could not remain in that room

  6. #56
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    99% of those Catholic pedophile priests were white men and 99% of the child molesters in the US are white men. 99% of the attorneys that defend them are white men. So, why are you hating on the Catholic church and not on white men? These pedophiles could have just as easily been pedophile teachers, athletic coaches, police officers, uncles, etc. The Catholic church did not make them pedophiles. They used the Catholic church to hide under the pretense of religious celibacy and because the position of priest gave them access to children, just like they could have used a teaching or athletic coaching position to gain access to kids. The Catholic Church was just a convenient place for these sick bastards, like Penn State was a convenient place for Jerry Sandusky and USA gymnastics was a convenient place for Lawrence Gerard Nassar.
    I'm not blaming the Catholic Church because their priests raped children. I'm blaming the Church because they knew their priests were raping children and did nothing to stop it, and because they did everything they could to avoid compensating their victims. When your church received complaints about what their priests were doing, instead of reporting them to law enforcement, they transferred them somewhere else where they could rape more children. I find what Penn State did with Jerry Sandusky and what USA Gymnastics did with Larry Nasser just as abhorrent as what the Catholic Church did, but with the Catholic Church, it was on a much larger scale. Not only was it happening all over the country, but all over the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    With your taxes, you support police officers that stop people for driving while black, and until recently, have been able to kill blacks with impunity. You support a government that puts innocent children in cages and lets them die of neglect. Have you any idea what this government has done in the name of holy democracy, but, really just to protect American business interests abroad? In South and Central America, we have toppled democratically elected leaders because they were sympathetic to the poor and we had an irrational fear of communist sympathizers, so we would replace them with ruthless and corrupt dictators that were friendly to US business interests. We live in one of the most corrupts countries in the planet, but, we call giving money to dirty politicians "campaign contributions", so, it sounds clean and less like corruption. You are probably patriotic and love being an American, despite the sordid history of evils and corruption of this country. I'm not anti-American, I just don't deceive myself about human institutions. They all carry baggage of corruption and evils.
    I don't have a choice about paying taxes. If I don't, I go to jail. Catholics have a choice about whether or not they contribute to their church. I don't "support a government that puts innocent children in cages and lets them die of neglect". I detest Donald Trump and I hope he is held accountable for his abhorrent actions as well as the many crimes he's committed. I'm patriotic to American principles of freedom and democracy, not our government. I very strongly oppose many things our government does and has done.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to eagle2 For This Useful Post:


  8. #57
    God/dess Raziel's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 989 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by AChildOfBoredom View Post
    Let me get back to this when I’m on my computer rather than trying to type it out on a phone screen. Plus I’m sitting in a tow truck waiting for my next call, so I’d rather not start and be interrupted.
    Do your thing, Hun.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Raziel For This Useful Post:


  10. #58
    God/dess SnuffleUffleGrass's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2009
    Location
    HearstCastle, Rosebud
    Posts
    8,848
    Thanks
    22,676
    Thanked 17,513 Times in 6,696 Posts
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Totally relevant to this discussion- adult movie star Chasey Lain's great grandfather was a Freemason. & One of her female relatives was an Eastern Star.

    Just super amusing. Some people are meant to stand out in life....

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to SnuffleUffleGrass For This Useful Post:


  12. #59
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Key West
    Posts
    16,343
    Thanks
    1,395
    Thanked 5,487 Times in 2,768 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Some great posts in this thread, brought back from the dead

    (Pun intended sorry ha ha).

    It would be interesting to see which religion has caused the most death and suffering, through excessive dogmatic persecution, wars 'in the name of' that religion; or in the case of the Aztecs and others involving human sacrifice and/or penance rituals. My money is on the Christians, which is kinda sad given what the real Yeshua was likely all about. But then the fostering of early Christianity on the Roman Empire was possibly the greatest PR stunt ever pulled. Not exactly the way he would have wanted it, I suspect.

    Speaking of Aztecs and Christianity, it's been asserted, with good reason, that one of the main reasons that the Spanish were able to dominate and pacify the MesoAmerican Precolumbians was the similarity of the religions. Strong emphasis on sacrifice and the multitude of patron saints (being effectively quite polytheistic) being two of the most important similarities.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

  13. #60
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    How would crimes committed by nazis be classified? There's no question that 2,000 years of antisemitism coming from the Christian church had an influence on hitler and his followers, but hitler wasn't acting directly for the church.

  14. #61
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Key West
    Posts
    16,343
    Thanks
    1,395
    Thanked 5,487 Times in 2,768 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    How would crimes committed by nazis be classified? There's no question that 2,000 years of antisemitism coming from the Christian church had an influence on hitler and his followers, but hitler wasn't acting directly for the church.
    Interesting question. I never considered that to be religious, but rather racial persecution. But he did tie into the pre-existing religion based bias, for sure.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

  15. #62
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Yes, there was a lot of antisemitism in Europe at the time that influenced hitler. Some of it even came from America. Henry Ford put out a lot of antisemitic literature, and was admired by hitler.

  16. #63
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Key West
    Posts
    16,343
    Thanks
    1,395
    Thanked 5,487 Times in 2,768 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Yes, there was a lot of antisemitism in Europe at the time that influenced hitler. Some of it even came from America. Henry Ford put out a lot of antisemitic literature, and was admired by hitler.
    I read a pretty good book about the Ford/Hitler connection. Will try to find the title and post it later.

    While Ford did achieve some impressive things, he was a serious asshole, above and beyond the fascist leanings.

    For one thing, he followed the same course as our not-so-esteemed 'president', and systematically, deliberately refused to pay creditors. He was notorious in Detroit industrial circles for this practice.

    He had an agenda beyond being a cheap motherfucker though--his favorite trick was to contract out to businesses in some form of competition with his own, then after they had invested time and labor they could not afford (without getting paid), stiff them, and thus force them to close.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

  17. #64
    God/dess Raziel's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 989 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    How would crimes committed by nazis be classified? There's no question that 2,000 years of antisemitism coming from the Christian church had an influence on hitler and his followers, but hitler wasn't acting directly for the church.
    I dunno. If you went back in time to 1933 and threw a rock, you'd probably hit someone who was guilty. There was a general air of antisemitism back then. It had nothing to do with religion. It had everything to do with people wanting a scapegoat for all their problems. If you lived in a village or something, you might not be guilty. What the fuck is a village girl supposed to do against HITLER? But most of them were guilty of the greatest crime in human history.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Raziel For This Useful Post:


  19. #65
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    It did. There was a great deal of antisemitism coming from the Christian Church. At the time, it was widely accepted by Christians, that all Jews were collectively responsible for killing Jesus. Martin Luther had written many abhorrent things about Jews, which had a great deal of influence on Germans at the time.

    From:
    https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/a...ewish-problem/
    In 1946, Julius Streicher was on trial for his life. He had published the antisemitic newspaper Der Stürmer, and had been captured at the end of World War II. The Allies put him on trial alongside 23 other prominent Nazis at the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg. During the trial Streicher was asked: “Witness, what aims did you pursue with your speeches and your articles in Der Stürmer?” Streicher replied:

    I did not intend to agitate or inflame but to enlighten. Antisemitic publications have existed in Germany for centuries. . . . In the book The Jews and Their Lies, Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent’s brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them. Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants’ dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the Prosecution.

    Streicher was a propagandist who devoted his life to spreading slander and falsehood, but on this occasion he was telling the truth.

  20. #66
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Key West
    Posts
    16,343
    Thanks
    1,395
    Thanked 5,487 Times in 2,768 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    ...it was widely accepted by Christians, that all Jews were collectively responsible for killing Jesus.
    Many cities had serious trouble with the Crusades passing through on the way to 'free' the Holy Land.

    "In parts of France and Germany, Jews were perceived as just as much of an enemy as Muslims: they were held responsible for the crucifixion, and they were more immediately visible than the distant Muslims. Many people wondered why they should travel thousands of miles to fight non-believers when there were already non-believers closer to home."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland_massacres
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Djoser For This Useful Post:


  22. #67
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    The Crusaders also massacred Jews, along with Muslims, after they conquered Jerusalem.

  23. #68
    God/dess Raziel's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 989 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Yup. In the first crusade, they massacred everyone in Jerusalem.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  24. #69
    God/dess
    Joined
    Oct 2018
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,546
    Thanks
    4,562
    Thanked 7,021 Times in 2,699 Posts
    My Mood
    Amazed

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    That's ancient history and all conquering people did the same thing.
    It’s ancient history because they were forced to stop. Even then, that wasn’t necessarily the end of it, the nature of it just looked different, e.g., mainline churches dismissed the Lord’s Resistance Army as a fringe group and some stated they don’t advocate things like bombings of Planned Parenthood, but they stopped short of condemning it (and a number of mainline churches even supported it overtly), when Greek Neo-Nazis participated in the massacre at Srebrenecia, it was their Orthodox faith which was where the Greeks found an affinity with the Serbs. And while religion has taken the back burner to the continuation of the conflict, it still serves as the dividing line and was the point of origin for the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    Then, of course, you still have those who don’t get hung up on subtlety. While they may be a fringe group, there are organizations advocating for Old Testament style governance in this country, and there’ve been a number of federal politicians endorsed by and connected to them, particularly among the neocons of the 90s and 2000s.

    I never really understood the Anabaptist stance against militarism. I’ve heard the claim made that it’s a more ‘pure’ form of subservience, but to me that’s just pure bulkshit. You have religious based wars because you have war based religions. Even in the transition from Old Testament to New Testament, people have found ways to use Scripture to justify it, not to mention it all culminates in a massive battle at the end of it anyhow.

    When Pagans converted to Christianity, they did not want to give up their festivals, so, the Pagan holidays were reconfigured and rebranded. That is not stealing holidays, that is accommodating to new converts and adding another holiday to the calendar. It was a win-win.
    That’s a bit of whitewashing there. You’d have to overlook that much of that conversion was done by fire and sword, and it was less about being accommodating than it was about concern that allowing those festivals to remain as is might invoke a sense of atavism which would lead to rebellion against the church.

    Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and also to tempt Jesus. I'm sure he shows up in many other places, but, those are the two I can remember right now.
    In the form of a serpent, not in the image of Pan.

    I do not know about Puritans, but, you could have also brought up the inquisition. Hate, ignorance, corruption, radicalization and narcissism infiltrates all human institutions. Things like the inquisition where more about politics and power than about Jesus. It was a betrayal of everything Jesus taught. When the church was at its zenith of power is when it was most corrupt. Positions of power attracts Machievellians that seek the power and pose as whatever is necessary to give them the path to power.
    When you bring up the Inquisition, Christians tend to respond by saying, “Oh, that’s those Catholics”. Which I suppose I can understand to an extent, as the Protestant Reformation created quite a rift in the Western Church, though it didn’t bring a peaceful existence among those who broke off from the Catholic Church and into the Protestant church, either… the Anabaptists - a product of the Radical Reformation which followed on the heels of the Protestant Reformation - found themselves under intense persecution by their ‘fellow’ Protestants, and again, we have the case of the Puritans, known for abhorring sex and loving violence (which remains a thing to this day).

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    It would be interesting to see which religion has caused the most death and suffering, through excessive dogmatic persecution, wars 'in the name of' that religion; or in the case of the Aztecs and others involving human sacrifice and/or penance rituals.
    It would be tough, especially in the matter of indirect causes. For example, there are a number of religions which reject modern medicine, and that has led to a lack of medical treatment which could’ve saved lives. So,if it happened in a family of those practicing so-called Christian Science, do we count that, and does that count against the greater whole of Christianity or are they broken down by denomination? You’re looking at invoking a HUGE pissing match there.

    Speaking of Aztecs and Christianity, it's been asserted, with good reason, that one of the main reasons that the Spanish were able to dominate and pacify the MesoAmerican Precolumbians was the similarity of the religions. Strong emphasis on sacrifice and the multitude of patron saints (being effectively quite polytheistic) being two of the most important similarities.
    The depopulation of the Aztecs due to the introduction of new diseases which they had no immunity to undoubtedly helped with that, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    How would crimes committed by nazis be classified? There's no question that 2,000 years of antisemitism coming from the Christian church had an influence on hitler and his followers, but hitler wasn't acting directly for the church.
    That would be interesting. While the SS notoriously pushed atavism and themes related to pre-Christian religions of Europe, Hitler never dropped his membership in the Catholic Church. Though the former ties more to Himmler, it had to have at least some degree of tacit approval by Hitler. Then again, it may have just been Hitler playing all sides… it was the Catholic Church under Pope Pius XII which aided many members of the Nazi party in escaping from Europe at the end of the European Campaign. Hitler had a history of doing that… in his rise to power and throughout his reign, he worked closely with Capitalists in spite of the anti-capitalistic nature of the NSDAP, and the “Aryan” Waffen SS ended up being perhaps the most ethnically diverse fighting force of the war.
    Written on the walls at the house of sorrow
    You can find the names of those who burned
    Greater yet, the pain in little drawings
    I could not remain in that room

  25. #70
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    It's not just individual Christians acting like assholes. There are entire denominations, as well as the Catholic Church, persecuting others who don't adhere to their beliefs, especially gays, as well as sex workers and adult entertainers. I've read of numerous accounts of Christians trying to shut down strip clubs. Some gays have been driven to suicide by Christians. Besides persecuting others, the Catholic Church protects pedophile priests who have committed horrible crimes against children. Any offense felt by Christians over an organization calling itself the "Church of Satan" is very insignificant compared to the harm caused by so many adherents to the Christian religion.
    We get to persecute people? Shoot, our priest never told us that! I need to get down to my parish right now and find out where I can sign up to be on the persecution squad.

    I think you'll find bad apples in any religious organization, but overall I would contend that most of the largest Christian denominations have done a lot more good than harm in modern times. If you go to almost any blighted urban area in this country, the overwhelming amount of outreach to the homeless and other at risk communities is being run by religious institutions. The amount of good that Christians do in the world every single day is simply too staggering to fully contemplate, ranging from soup kitchens, food pantries, homeless and domestic abuse shelters, delivery of medical supplies, clean water initiatives in third world countries - and all of this is just the tip of the iceberg.

    By way of one example, the Catholic Church is the largest charitable institution in the world. Its presence is felt not only in many blighted U.S. communities, with food, shelter, help with rent and home expenses, safe schools and immigrant services, but also in its missionary work throughout the world. In just the past decade, the Catholic Church has probably saved hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives and improved the health and well being of countless more.

    Without the charitable work of so many Christian churches and organizations, this country and many others would be a far worse place for those in need. So when we have a discussion like this, replete with dramatic hyperbole and other broad sweeping accusations, let's understand that there is a more complete picture to be seen. I'm not saying that any of these organizations is perfect, very much including the Catholic Church, but there is a much more complete story to be told.

  26. #71
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    We get to persecute people? Shoot, our priest never told us that! I need to get down to my parish right now and find out where I can sign up to be on the persecution squad.
    If you were one of those people being persecuted by your church, you wouldn't be taking this so lightly. For close to 2,000 years Jews were persecuted by your church because of this insane belief that people were somehow responsible for events that took place before they were born. It wasn't until 1965 that your church changed its position and acknowledged that all Jews, living and dead, weren't responsible for the death of Jesus. Today your church's targets are gays, abortion clinics, and sexually active women who don't want to have children. Your church opposes gay marriage and every law and proposed law granting gays basic rights. Your church has expelled children from its schools, because their parents were in same-sex marriages. Your church consistently opposes contraception for all women, as well as abortions. Abortion providers have even been murdered by members of your church.

    If you want to sign up for the persecution squad, just join any anti-abortion organization that protests at abortion clinics.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I think you'll find bad apples in any religious organization, but overall I would contend that most of the largest Christian denominations have done a lot more good than harm in modern times. If you go to almost any blighted urban area in this country, the overwhelming amount of outreach to the homeless and other at risk communities is being run by religious institutions. The amount of good that Christians do in the world every single day is simply too staggering to fully contemplate, ranging from soup kitchens, food pantries, homeless and domestic abuse shelters, delivery of medical supplies, clean water initiatives in third world countries - and all of this is just the tip of the iceberg.
    Your church doesn't have just a few bad apples. Your entire church hierarchy has been protecting and defending priests who have sexually abused children, and this continues to this day. In Pennsylvania alone, your church covered up abuse by more than 300 priests.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/u...nsylvania.html

    In this country, a significant amount of funding for your church's charitable organizations comes from the government, while a significant amount of donations your church receives, goes to defending priests who have sexually abused children. In many cases, your church's policies have made things worse for domestic abuse victims, rather than better, by opposing divorce. I remember reading an article about the horrible situation so many women in Ireland were in, because divorce was prohibited. I read of women going to nuns or priests asking for help with domestic abuse, because they could not divorce their husband, and their response was, "that's a cross you'll have to bear". It wasn't until 1995 that divorce became legal in Ireland. Contraception was also outlawed in Ireland, until fairly recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    By way of one example, the Catholic Church is the largest charitable institution in the world. Its presence is felt not only in many blighted U.S. communities, with food, shelter, help with rent and home expenses, safe schools and immigrant services, but also in its missionary work throughout the world. In just the past decade, the Catholic Church has probably saved hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives and improved the health and well being of countless more.
    The leading cause of death for young women around the world is illegal abortion. Your church adamantly opposes making abortions safe and legal, which could save the lives of so many young women, as well as contraception, which could greatly reduce the number of women getting abortions. Not only does your church oppose contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies, your church opposes the use of condoms to prevent AIDS. Your church would rather see more people die from AIDS, than have people use condoms to prevent it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Without the charitable work of so many Christian churches and organizations, this country and many others would be a far worse place for those in need. So when we have a discussion like this, replete with dramatic hyperbole and other broad sweeping accusations, let's understand that there is a more complete picture to be seen. I'm not saying that any of these organizations is perfect, very much including the Catholic Church, but there is a much more complete story to be told.
    The harm caused by your church's many cruel policies and beliefs far outweighs any good they do. Donating to secular charities who don't place their religious beliefs above the lives of others would do far more good than donating churches who are more concerned about imposing their beliefs on others than actually helping them.

  27. #72
    God/dess Raziel's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 989 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by AChildOfBoredom View Post
    It’s ancient history because they were forced to stop. Even then, that wasn’t necessarily the end of it, the nature of it just looked different, e.g., mainline churches dismissed the Lord’s Resistance Army as a fringe group and some stated they don’t advocate things like bombings of Planned Parenthood, but they stopped short of condemning it (and a number of mainline churches even supported it overtly), when Greek Neo-Nazis participated in the massacre at Srebrenecia, it was their Orthodox faith which was where the Greeks found an affinity with the Serbs. And while religion has taken the back burner to the continuation of the conflict, it still serves as the dividing line and was the point of origin for the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    Then, of course, you still have those who don’t get hung up on subtlety. While they may be a fringe group, there are organizations advocating for Old Testament style governance in this country, and there’ve been a number of federal politicians endorsed by and connected to them, particularly among the neocons of the 90s and 2000s.

    I never really understood the Anabaptist stance against militarism. I’ve heard the claim made that it’s a more ‘pure’ form of subservience, but to me that’s just pure bulkshit. You have religious based wars because you have war based religions. Even in the transition from Old Testament to New Testament, people have found ways to use Scripture to justify it, not to mention it all culminates in a massive battle at the end of it anyhow.



    That’s a bit of whitewashing there. You’d have to overlook that much of that conversion was done by fire and sword, and it was less about being accommodating than it was about concern that allowing those festivals to remain as is might invoke a sense of atavism which would lead to rebellion against the church.



    In the form of a serpent, not in the image of Pan.



    When you bring up the Inquisition, Christians tend to respond by saying, “Oh, that’s those Catholics”. Which I suppose I can understand to an extent, as the Protestant Reformation created quite a rift in the Western Church, though it didn’t bring a peaceful existence among those who broke off from the Catholic Church and into the Protestant church, either… the Anabaptists - a product of the Radical Reformation which followed on the heels of the Protestant Reformation - found themselves under intense persecution by their ‘fellow’ Protestants, and again, we have the case of the Puritans, known for abhorring sex and loving violence (which remains a thing to this day).



    It would be tough, especially in the matter of indirect causes. For example, there are a number of religions which reject modern medicine, and that has led to a lack of medical treatment which could’ve saved lives. So,if it happened in a family of those practicing so-called Christian Science, do we count that, and does that count against the greater whole of Christianity or are they broken down by denomination? You’re looking at invoking a HUGE pissing match there.



    The depopulation of the Aztecs due to the introduction of new diseases which they had no immunity to undoubtedly helped with that, as well.



    That would be interesting. While the SS notoriously pushed atavism and themes related to pre-Christian religions of Europe, Hitler never dropped his membership in the Catholic Church. Though the former ties more to Himmler, it had to have at least some degree of tacit approval by Hitler. Then again, it may have just been Hitler playing all sides… it was the Catholic Church under Pope Pius XII which aided many members of the Nazi party in escaping from Europe at the end of the European Campaign. Hitler had a history of doing that… in his rise to power and throughout his reign, he worked closely with Capitalists in spite of the anti-capitalistic nature of the NSDAP, and the “Aryan” Waffen SS ended up being perhaps the most ethnically diverse fighting force of the war.
    I have to say, you are well spoken.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  28. #73
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    If you were one of those people being persecuted by your church, you wouldn't be taking this so lightly. For close to 2,000 years Jews were persecuted by your church because of this insane belief that people were somehow responsible for events that took place before they were born. It wasn't until 1965 that your church changed its position and acknowledged that all Jews, living and dead, weren't responsible for the death of Jesus. Today your church's targets are gays, abortion clinics, and sexually active women who don't want to have children. Your church opposes gay marriage and every law and proposed law granting gays basic rights. Your church has expelled children from its schools, because their parents were in same-sex marriages. Your church consistently opposes contraception for all women, as well as abortions. Abortion providers have even been murdered by members of your church.

    If you want to sign up for the persecution squad, just join any anti-abortion organization that protests at abortion clinics.


    Your church doesn't have just a few bad apples. Your entire church hierarchy has been protecting and defending priests who have sexually abused children, and this continues to this day. In Pennsylvania alone, your church covered up abuse by more than 300 priests.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/u...nsylvania.html

    In this country, a significant amount of funding for your church's charitable organizations comes from the government, while a significant amount of donations your church receives, goes to defending priests who have sexually abused children. In many cases, your church's policies have made things worse for domestic abuse victims, rather than better, by opposing divorce. I remember reading an article about the horrible situation so many women in Ireland were in, because divorce was prohibited. I read of women going to nuns or priests asking for help with domestic abuse, because they could not divorce their husband, and their response was, "that's a cross you'll have to bear". It wasn't until 1995 that divorce became legal in Ireland. Contraception was also outlawed in Ireland, until fairly recently.


    The leading cause of death for young women around the world is illegal abortion. Your church adamantly opposes making abortions safe and legal, which could save the lives of so many young women, as well as contraception, which could greatly reduce the number of women getting abortions. Not only does your church oppose contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies, your church opposes the use of condoms to prevent AIDS. Your church would rather see more people die from AIDS, than have people use condoms to prevent it.


    The harm caused by your church's many cruel policies and beliefs far outweighs any good they do. Donating to secular charities who don't place their religious beliefs above the lives of others would do far more good than donating churches who are more concerned about imposing their beliefs on others than actually helping them.
    Eagle, are we going to go back to the Crusades now in our digging up of ancient history? Is there any organization, religious or otherwise, that has been around for as long as the Catholic church that doesn't have some dark periods? Worse though, you bootstrapped ancient stuff to semi modern religious dogma which has been changed to try to show some continuous persecution narrative, lol.

    And yes eagle, a few bad apples. As of last count, there are over 414,000 active priests in the U.S. The number of priests in the U.S. that served at some point over the decades that that we have reported abuse information is easily in the millions. Most everyday Catholics are horrified by those allegations and the way that the Church handled them have demanded changes, which have finally been made. But when it is all said and done it represents an almost immeasurably tiny percentage of priests that dedicate their entire lives to serving others. Most Catholics have never come across this issue firsthand with their Parish priests. Few of us have also met anyone who purportedly murdered someone at an abortion clinic, lol, nor would that concept be tolerated by pretty much any Catholic.

    As far as your comment about government funding, you're wrong. The overwhelming majority of money funding all of these efforts comes from the 10s of millions of everyday Catholics in the U.S. and is used at all levels, from local level to Diocese level efforts to international relief efforts. Good luck replacing all of what I outlined above with other private charities, many of which chew up a good chunk of their funding on administrative costs. The religious nature of these organizations and parishioner accountability is precisely what drives them to use the money efficiently, to go into places where others cannot go because of employee liability exposure, to guarantee steady funding for safe schools, etc., etc.

    As far as abortion, gay marriage and contraception, those are topics for another day in a different forum as there are political elements that are not appropriate here. Most of this stems from a fundamental belief that all life is sacred, including unborn lives, and that every abortion averted is a life saved. Obviously you disagree as I'm sure do some others here. But to suggest that the Catholic Church does anything violent in advocating these positions is ludicrous.

  29. #74
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    As far as your comment about government funding, you're wrong. The overwhelming majority of money funding all of these efforts comes from the 10s of millions of everyday Catholics in the U.S. and is used at all levels, from local level to Diocese level efforts to international relief efforts.
    From:
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...n-us-contract/

    The Church and related Catholic charities and schools have collected more than $1.6 billion since 2012 in U.S. contracts and grants in a far-reaching relationship that spans from school lunches for grammar school students to contracts across the globe to care for the poor and needy at the expense of Uncle Sam, a Washington Times review of federal spending records shows.
    Note: This article is from 2015, so the $1.6 billion is from 2012 - 2014 or 2015.

    Catholic Charities USA, the largest charitable organization run by the church, receives about 65 percent of its annual budget from state and federal governments, making it an arm of the federal welfare state, said Brian Anderson, a researcher with the Manhattan Institute.

  30. #75
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: Does anyone know what this star could mean?

    Eagle, Catholic Charities is just one small facet of everything done collectively in the U.S. by the Catholic Church. Each church has its own set of "ministries" which engage in a variety of direct charitable outreach activities. Then each Diocese (regional governing body) has its own set of missions and ministries and engages in a variety of charitable activities, including, notably, supporting the Diocesan schools serving at risk kids who would otherwise not have a safe school to attend.. Then there are a plethora of other Catholic run charitable institutions, all outside of Catholic Charities USA.

    $1.6 billion is a pittance compared to what is spent nationwide on Catholic based charities and causes. Yes Catholic Charities USA is the largest single charity entity, but it represents a small portion of everything collectively done under the Catholic Church umbrella each year. It is the very decentralized nature of these activities that allows operating efficiency and direct outreach, often involving nothing but volunteers.

    But what you posted was interesting. It is telling that the federal and state governments recognize that Catholic Charities USA can do direct community outreach more efficiently than they can do it for themselves.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. I Am Like, A Rock Star....
    By PaigeDWinter in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-05-2006, 07:36 PM
  2. Porn Star or Pop Star
    By Guenevere in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-02-2006, 05:26 PM
  3. Star Strip, L.A.
    By Yekhefah in forum Club Chat
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-27-2005, 11:35 AM
  4. how to be a star!!!!
    By dakota1 in forum Newbie Board
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-26-2005, 05:19 PM
  5. So, you want to be a STAR?
    By Casey-11 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-16-2005, 10:19 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •