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Thread: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

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    Default Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    My poor puppy Calli has an inherited form of Mange, Red Mange, which is really common it pitbulls....

    We have taken her to the vet and she had gotten shots and been through a course of medicine for it, all to no avail....

    We have also tried common homeopathic remidies, such as giving her a "Borax Bath" and hydrogen peroxide treatments. Oh and sulfur treatments as well.

    I'm really at a loss for what to do. I feel like we're pumping her full of toxins and dont neccessarily want to take her back to the vet for another course of meds as it hasn't worked...

    Poor little girl.

    The other thing is I feel like the mange gets better and then moves to other parts of her bodies...For examplie it was on her head/face, then moved over her back. Those areas are healing but she has a big huge sorry looking sore on her ass now.

    Has anybody else experienced this?
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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    There are two types of Red or Demodectic Mange. The first is localized where it is a little patchy and usually clears up by the time the dog is a year. The second is generalized where the dog looks like it has a moth eaten appearance. I am the proud owner of what had to be the ugliest Pit Bull when I got him from generalized Demodectic mange.

    Buddy only had about 40 percent of his hair when I first got him. He was so ugly I almost didn't take him. He had large bald patches all over, the underside of his tail was bare, he had no hair on his chest/legs/feet, and no hair on the bottom half of his face.

    First off DO NOT dip her in motor oil--it does not work and is very harmful to the dog. I do not recommend the amtraz/Mitaban dips. They work but are toxic and if you or anyone the dog is around take SSRIs like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, etc., it will cause an adverse reaction. It can also make the dog sick. I haven't noticed sulfur working for demodex mange.

    A good med for localized demodex is called Goodwinol ointment. It is hard to find but really works. Very few veterinarians carry it but it's worth the trouble to call around to find it. The other very good treatment is liquid ivomec (ivomectin). It's the heartworm meds. This is what worked on Buddy since he had the generalized demodex. The dosage was 1cc per 40 pounds of body weight per day. Buddy got 1.5 cc per day since he weighed 60 pounds.

    If the dog has white feet you have to slowly up the dose to the recommended dosage. It's not a fully recommended treatment but it does work. While she's on it you dont' have to do heartworm meds since it's already the heartworm med. I recommend this method very highly and recommend finding a vet who will agree to this. With the liquid Ivomectin, Buddy's hair came back within about 3 months. It cleared him up. When he stressed his hair would fall out again but after about a year and a half of it, we finally got it under control.

    I also recommend getting her spayed. It usually helps control it better. The demodex mite is usuallly harmless and is passed from mother to puppy. When the dog stresses the mite overpopulates and blocks the hair follicles. Usually they die out quicker than they are created. Usually with generalized demodex there are secondary skin infections also.

    How old is Callie and do you know if the demodex is localized or generalized? Pit Bulls do tend to get it easier. Pugs do too (I've got 2 Pugs and 2 Pit Bulls). Please let me know how she does. I'll have to put up pics of Buddy and how bad he looked.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    I've heard about seabuckthorn oil (in the form of shampoos and soaps) for treating demodex mites (in humans and I guess dogs too) that cause mange:
    http://www.bluesagenaturals.com/animals.php
    I think it should be safe and natural.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Are they giving her ivomectin? It's a really common treatment for demodex but it's not actually indicated so in advanced cases it can be a waste of time.

    How old is she? As mentioned before there's localised and generalised demodex. Localised in common in all breeds of puppies and will generally go away by itself or by using Advantage Multi monthly. If it's generalised (which seems likely) that is the one that's common to bully breeds, I want to warn you that it's usually recurring. On the plus side it's not all that uncomfortable and it's not contagious.

    One of my pit bull x's came with a little bald patch that looked like demodex. I work for a vet clinic so this was not an issue but it took two lots of scrapings (not enough mites - all dogs have these mites BTW, having demodex is having overpopulation of mites) and finally a skin punch to conclude she did actually have demodex. This cost me plenty and I pay cost + 5% and nothing for vet time!

    By the time I finally got treatment she was bald from the waist down. We started ivomectin, was working OK but I was feeling really frustrated by now (4-5 months!) and went fuck it, I'm going for dips. I used mitoban dips for three weeks weekly then once more two weeks later and it fixed it. 100%.

    It's nasty shit, terribly terribly fatal for cats if they get the slightest amount, you have to wear gloves and can't do it where the fumes can build up. Awfully ecotoxic but it made me happy because it worked so damn well.

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    Veteran Member Fenriswolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    This is her before and after BTW (no, she doesn't look anything like a pit bull lol)





    Oh and did anyone suggest neem oil? Too lazy to check sorry. A woman who rescues on pitbullforum.com (lots of threads on this over there) said she used ivomec injections + neem oil topically and it worked really well... and we're talking a dog who's totally bald. Probably something like this:



    That's my poor baby from the SPCA who was PTS for being a pit bull x (I wanted to take him home when we just had our American Bulldog and English Bulldog. No go). You can't really see but he had absolutely no fur longer than a couple of millimeters and had scabs all over his head... you could feel all his ribs and his spine. His owners probably had to pay $500 and be banned from owning dogs for 10 years or something, yay our justice system

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Ferinswolf, thank you!

    I was told that it is "Red Mange" it isn't major patches of missing hair all over her body, but rather round patches that she scratches/bites to the point of being bloody...I'm not sure what type of Red Mange it is, I wasn't told specifically.

    Callie is apx 6.5-7 months old. She was rescued as a pup so we have no idea exactly how old she is, but she was believed to be 2 months old when she was found...

    I'm going to call my vet and ask if he does the type of treatment you reccommended....if you give me a second I am going to take a picture of her worst mange spot to post them....
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


    Quote Originally Posted by anomar View Post
    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Her from the front... her whole body is normal except for her ass and a few spots that are mostly healed on her lower back....This is AFTER she went through the vet reccommended treatment of shots, and pills and sulfur dip. She looks good from the front....



    But now her ass has had an"outbreak" of mange and it looks terrible...I need to take her to the vet unless I can find something in a few days to help. The thing that concerns me is her mange seemed to get worse AFTER the treatments...




    ^^^Thats my other black pitbull's ass next to Callis ass just to clarify, it sort of looks like a huge weird growth...My other pit is sleeping with her butt all up on her.....(oh and also those are my boyfriends huge hairy legs, he in bed with the puppies sleeping AWWW...just do you dont think that they are mine and I'm a WildaBeast lol). . I was btw assured from the vet that the type of mange is not contageous and my other dog Leila has not developed any itching or other symptoms

    Let me know if you think the MitoBan might work for her.... We dont have cats and I could give her the treatments outside or in the garage and then just open the door after I'm done to let the fumes out (as it gets very cold here soon)
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


    Quote Originally Posted by anomar View Post
    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Experts in this can be found at the Cornell Veterinary School. They are truly experts in almost any kind of medical problem with animals, including pets. They will consult over the phone too.

    Here's another idea.... food allergies. Check out Science Diet for specialty non-allergen products.
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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    STAY AWAY FROM SCIENCE DIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It costs too much for what little you get. I can recommend many food products that are tons better than Science Diet. The best foods are the ones that don't advertise (i.e. Canidae, Nature's variety Prairie, Natural Balance).

    She could also be allergic to fleas. Sometimes a dog is so allergic to fleas that he/she will lose hair and get large sores/hot spots. Cleo and Beau (other Pittie and Pug) are both allergic to fleas--Beau gets sores/hot spots and is very itchy and Cleo loses her hair. Do a skin punch and see if the mites are controlled.

    Mitaban does work but don't do it at home. Let the vet do it. First though make sure the mites are still bad before doing that.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Callie's a gorgeous girl! I love her ears!!

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by fantasiarene View Post
    STAY AWAY FROM SCIENCE DIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It costs too much for what little you get. I can recommend many food products that are tons better than Science Diet. .
    A Science Diet product that Cornell Vet School recommended saved my old cat's life. If they'd recommended something else, I'd have gotten that. She couldn't eat any other commercial foods. So maybe you're not as expert as the vets. I'd let experts make recopmmendations to save an animal's life over any slightly more expensive food that may not work as well.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Thanks for the tips you guys!

    I haven't considered food allergies, and we DID switch her food after we got her... the people we got her from had been feeding her some sort of generic puppy chow and we switched her to Purina Puppy Chow... I wonder if that makes a difference?

    I think these are all great questions for the vet. Fanta I know she didn't have fleas when we got her (vet checked her for all contagious bc of our other dog) so I don't think that's it...unless she could have gotten them some how, but I doubt it bc we have her on Frontline....But anything is possible!
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


    Quote Originally Posted by anomar View Post
    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Poor pup. If she does have mange or another like, flea or mite problem, remember to get your house professionally steam cleaned and wash ALL the bedding with hot water. My mom's dog had some kind of mite problem and every time they'd get it cleared up, new mites would come back. The carpet, drapes and bedding were infested! ICK!

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Hopefully Frontline is doing better in your area than it is in mine! It's not working here in Little Rock. I just started everyone on the new flea pill called Comfortis so we'll see.

    Food can make a big difference too. A lot of dogs are allergic to some of the ingredients in dog food--mostly wheat, corn, or soy. Beau unfortunatly is allergic to rice and eggs. Puppy chow is okay. Cleo is on Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice. We only feed 2 cups a day to her for her weight (42 lbs). Beau and Lucky are in a transition stage from Natural Balance Potato and Duck to Solid Gold Barking at the Moon so I can keep weight on them. Buddy is on Canidae since his tummy couldn't handle Diamond.

    Diamond can be found at feed stores and is rather inexpensive. At the pet store I worked at it was $23 for a 40 lb bag (of course that's an Arkansas price). You'll find you'll feed less of it than Puppy Chow because of the denser nutrients in Diamond so you wouldnt have to buy it as often. Plus there is less volume of poop since Calli would be absorbing more of the nutrients (big plus!).

    Isobel what you're describing sounds like the sarcoptic mite or scabies and that is contagious and will infest everything and anyone. Demodectic/red mange is not contagious and doesn't infest a house, carpet, bedding, etc. I feel bad for y'all on that.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Has your vet done scrapings? Red mange is demodex not sarcopsis, and those patches do look like demodex. Food allergies are also seen a lot so I would be surprised if your vet got the two confused.

    I would personally spend the money on good food rather than supermarket stuff. Canidae is a good one apparently. Purina in particularly uses lots of corn which is a common allergen and shitty for their teeth.

    Pit bull type dogs are also prone to food allergies so even if this isn't it it's something to consider. Yes, Hills has filler as do all dried dog foods but that does not make it evil, and besides which the food for allergies is made of hydrolysed proteins, not whole meats or any grains.

    Hills ZD Ultra is the main hypoallergenic prescription food, but it's also the most expensive prescription food you can buy. Eukanuba make a "custom care" range that uses fish as the primary protein source and has no grains that are common allergens.

    We can't get all the flash organic, grain free dry food in New Zealand but there are some great ones out there if you want to avoid Hills/Eukanuba/Iams/Royal Canin etc.

    Raw is also fantastic but it's a lot of work! Bear in mind that beef is the most common allergen for dogs, but hell your girl may not have any issues there.

    FYI I also stole some notes on demodex from work to transcribe so here's a quick run down:

    *Demodicosis is associated with the proliferation of the mites Demodex canis which are notmal inhabitants of the hair follicle.
    *Secondary bacterial infection of the hair follicles often occurs, and the rupture of the hair follicle wall may lead to the presence of free mites in the dermis, and a severe pyogenic infection.
    *Classically, two forms of demodicosis are decribed, namely localised and generalised. Cases of the forumer usually self-cure, whereas generalised demodicosis is a severe disease requiring aggressive therapy.

    *There is absolutely no doubt that the tendency to develop generalised demodicosis is inherited. This at this point the recommendation is that neither the sire nore the dam of litters that have resulted in generalised demodicosis should be used again for breeding.

    Basically, spey her! That's my recommendation anyway as the last thing any breed needs but particularly pit bulls is more accidental litters.

    [b]Juvenile onset of generalised demodicosis[/b:]
    *Onset is usually from 3-6 months and it is rare for this to commence after puberty.
    *It usually commenses as localised demodicosis, of which some 10% of cases may progress to the generalised form.

    When does localised demodicosis become generalised demodicosis?
    *This is debateable. However, in general the presence of more than 5 patches of localised demodicosis or the development of confluent patches should alert the clinician to the possibility that generalised disease exists and that aggressive therapy is indicated.

    Skin scraping:
    The diagnosis is most often made by demonstration of the mites by skin scraping. Occasional mites are found in normal skin, but the presense of several Demodex, and particularly the presence of young forms and eggs, enable confirmation of the diagnosis.
    Skin scraping: they pinch 3 - 5 separate sites, scrape until bloody with a scalpel, then examine the tissue under the microscope. You can also pluck hair, or do a skin biopsy and send it away (which is what I ended up doing) for testing.

    She's beautiful by the way!

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Well my food was tantalising me so I totally didn't edit that post for clarity, sorry! But as a PS thought I'd cross post some recommendations for good food (we can't get in NZ!!)

    I have been asked to rate both dry and raw foods. The dry foods will be listed in order of quality with an explanation of why it rates where it does.

    At the top of my list with 4 stars is raw or BARF. It’s the most appropriate for dogs to eat, easiest for them to digest, and though there are inherent risks, the safest as well.

    For dry foods the first at 3 stars would be Timberwolf:
    With a very high percentage of meat based protein it is quite expensive. But since the dogs don’t eat as much of it, it really ends up being a good buy. They also, as a general rule, don’t develop a lot of the usual issues they deal with when lower quality foods are fed. Their lowest protein formula starts with 50% meat based protein, their highest has 90% meat based protein. The more meat protein the less grain they use. There is a wide variety of formulas and 3 are true allergy formulas since they don’t use any form of rice, corn, wheat, or soy.

    Number two with 2 1/2 stars would be Nature’s Variety:
    They use a standard kibble but when it’s cooled from the extrusion process they coat it in dehydrated raw food. They call this “Bio-coating”. It ups the meat percentage quite a bit, though pound for pound it’s still less than the Timberwolf. They have recently added an allergy formula, Venison with pumpkin seed and sweet potato. The dogs do well with it.

    Number 3 with 2 1/4 stars would be Merrick:
    Merrick also coats the kibble in dehydrated meat. They have added freeze dried vegetables and chunks of dehydrated meat in with the kibble. It has an added component of making gravy when warm water is added with the kibble. It takes a couple of minutes for it to thicken up but the dogs love it.

    Number 4 with 1 3/4 stars would be Wellness. The biggest thing with this food that made it stand out is it is baked. It crumbles very easily, and is suppose to be easily digested. They were one of the first to come out with an alternative allergy formula with something other than lamb and rice.

    Number 5 with 1 1/2 stars would be Canidae:
    This is a decent food, much better than a lot of the big names out there. My main complaint is that they use sunflower oil and, eventually, most dogs will have trouble with it. It’s a good middle of the road food for a lot of people coming off grocery store or big name foods. It shows them the benefits of feeding better quality.
    This is just a poll I want to post just to so everyone can get an idea of what type of foods they feed they're dog. Just in case you want to switch your dog on a different diet. I've chosen the Top 10 Dog Foods listed from Whole Dog Journals February 2001 issue. I know there are other good dog foods out there. If you have any in mind, feel free to discuss experiences with other dog foods.

    How come I don't see my commercial dog food listed???
    Recent studies show that many commercial pet foods may contribute to pet disease because of their poor nutritional value. But, by reading and understanding the labels, you can decide what is best for your pet.

    Did you know commercial pet food also can contain condemned parts of animals that are not fit for humans to eat? These foods may contain moldy or spoiled food that is full of carcinogens. Some pet commercial foods can contain dirt, rocks and even wood shavings.

    And, just because the label says there are no preservatives, doesn't mean that its true. If the preservatives are in the food before the pet food manufacturer receives it, they can say it has no preservatives as long as they did not add it.

    Try to avoid ingredients called BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) and BHT (butylated hydroxytolulene). These are both known to cause liver and kidney disease.

    Also be aware of ingredients that have been listed more than once. For example, manufacturers can hide the fact that the main ingredient is sugar, if they split it by calling it high fructose and also corn syrup.

    The main thing is to make sure that the first four ingredients that are listed in your pets food are meat products and not grains. Pets are carnivores and get their nutrition from meat. Most grains have little or no nutritional value and your cat or dog cannot digest them very well.


    You can read more about the ingredients in dog foods by clicking here.... Click me...

    Quality Foods Should Contain:
    Superior sources of protein, either whole fresh meats or single source meat meal (ex. chicken meal rather than poultry meal)
    A whole-meat source as one of the first two ingredients.
    Whole, unprocessed grains, vegetables, and other foods. Nutrients and enzymes are more likely to be found in unprocessed foods.


    Quality foods should contain a MINIMUM of the following:
    Food fragments - lower-cost by-products of another food manufacturing process, such as brewer's rice and wheat bran...Manufacturers usually include at least one fragment to help lower costs. Beware any food that includes several fragments.
    Meat by-products (not handled as carefully as whole meat) - any food that contains meat by-products as the MAJOR protein source indicates a low-quality product.

    HIGH-QUALITY FOODS SHOULD NOT CONTAIN:
    Fats or proteins named generically (ex. animal fat/poultry fat instead of beef fat/ lamb meal)
    Artificial preservatives (BHA, BHT, ethoxyquin)
    Artificial colors.
    Sweeteners (corn syrup, sucrose, ammoniated glycyrrhizin) to improve unappealing food
    Propylene glycol - a toxic substance when consumed in large amounts; added to some "chewy" foods to keep them moist.

    B.A.R.F.
    One of the best and natural diets for your dog is B.A.R.F. (Bones and Raw Food) You can find out more on this diet by clicking here... Click me!!! (Information collected by Jane Johnson.)

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Def spay her if she hasnt been yet. And have the vet do a scraping.I had a dog with demodex...took forever to get her under control.And Ivermectin given by injection and orally combined with mitoban dips helped immensely. And no supermarket food. Start feeding her the best most natural food you can afford.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    I did have the vet do a scraping, yes, and he told me it was the Red Mange.....he did give her the injection and an oral medicine but it seems to have actually gotten worse since that time I will definitely stay away from super market food.....I actually wouldn't be opposed to cooking for my dogs, I should really look into that. Do you guys advise that?
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


    Quote Originally Posted by anomar View Post
    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    one injection usuallly doesn't help. It usually takes more than that. Buddy was on daily oral Ivermectin for over a year and a half. I stopped giving it to him in January (I tapered him off). He's now 3 and I got him at a year. Poor baby.

    I'm not opposed to cooking for my dogs. There are many sites that can help you with that. I cook up chicken giblets for their training treats. You just have to find the time and the right way to cook for them. There are some books out there also. Check Barnes and Noble or Books-a-Million. It is hard but it's worth it. The good thing about a homeade diet is they do have a lot less poop; plus after a day or so it turns white and crumbles!

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    Veteran Member Fenriswolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    I've only got internet for 2 more minutes but seriously, go raw. Feeding cooked food you're putting all the effort in and getting not a lot of nutrients.

    I've been procrastinating on feeding raw for months (possibly years!) now because I can't find anywhere cheap enough to feed 3 big dogs and 8 cats... ah running out of time but needless to say I think it's awesome. There's tons of info out there but it's kind of confusing because there's so much...

    I'll be back when I'm at home. Sorry for posting so damn much

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    ^^^

    Thanks a lot!! And raw meat wont make thm sick?
    Sexy Jasmine after getting fucked over at work:

    God loves strippers and when guys do things like that its an automatic ticket to HELL!


    Quote Originally Posted by anomar View Post
    Perhaps you stopped spending money on her. Strippers need money to operate. They are like coin operated juke-boxes of love.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    not normally. To my knowledge a dog's stomach is strong enough to handle it. There are very few cases of dogs getting sick from raw meat and those are very, very rare.

    I actually had Beau and Lucky on a food called Sojos from Sojourner Farms. They have an oatmeal based mix and a veggie based mix. You have to soak them at least 15 minutes before feeding and you add raw hamburger meat. I loved the food but Beau wouldn't stop scratching. It's a great quicker way of fixing a raw meal. A 5 lb log from the meat shop/butcher cost me a little over $5 a week. In feeding a mix like that since it's soft, you have to supplement with bones to chew on so plaque doesn't build up.

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    Has she been fixed? I didnt go thru the whole thread, sorry if this has been addressed. My husky had demadectic mange and had to be dipped alot, she got fixed(after3 years of dipping!) and it went away.

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    Veteran Member Fenriswolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    3 years??? Was this on and off or constant? You're really not supposed to do dips for a hugely extended period.

    Re: raw, there's tons of info out there but I would not recommend just feeding meat plus random bones here and there - that's a good way not to give enough calcium, and using calcium supplements is a good way to give too much! I'd give it some thought first. Lots of pro-raw people are completely rabid about it and think dry food is always evil but I stand firmly in the middle personally.

    Here's one link: raw FAQ, but there's heaps out there. You could join pitbullforum.com, there are a lot of great people on there and a 61 page thread on feeding raw! Wanted to link it but you have to be a member.

    You've got to go with what's practical and affordable to you though. There's also pre-packaged raw which is nice and easy!

    How goes the mange?

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    Default Re: Severe Mange in Dogs...any advice?

    I was hoping it was something like a food allergy because they're easier and faster to fix. Glad you're taking care of it. One more warning: a long term usage of steriods, if you're vet is into that, is not good; probably will affect the heart.

    Sorry I can't be of more help, but I've had very healthy pets (cats) so far. And I've loved everyone of them, after all they are family members but with much shorter lives.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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