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Thread: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

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    Default some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    from a professional investor's BBS ...

    (snip)"Fed coin-melt bars are turning up all over Europe and the Middle East.

    For those of you who don't know what they are, Fed coin-melt bars were produced from the gold that was seized by FDR in 1933 and the bars were safe-kept in West Point, NY.

    These bars are .899 gold, which makes them inferior quality gold on the world market. It is thought that this is an indication that the Fed is running out of physical gold and the coin-melt bars represent scraping the bottom of the barrel in the price suppression efforts.

    My colleague in Lichtenstein confirmed the proliferation of these bars on the European market and I just received information that dealers in Dubai are seeing them all over the place.

    This could get very interesing..."(snip)


    This relates to a curious fact that, while the 'paper price' of gold on international commodity markets remains in the US$700-750 per ounce range, a huge number of 'retail precious metals dealers' simply do not have any gold bullion coins available for sale to small time investors.

    from the leading online precious metals seller Kitco ...

    (snip)"The following products have been temporarily removed from our Precious Metal Store until further notice due to production and delivery delays that retailers are currently facing; Gold Eagle 1 oz, Gold Maple 1 oz, Special Gold Maple 5 X 9 pure 1 oz, Gold Buffalo 1 oz, Gold Krugerrand 1 oz, Gold Bar 10 oz, Gold Bar 1 oz, Kitco Gold Bar 1 oz, Kitco ChipGold 10 g, Kitco ChipGold 20 g Gold Philharmonic 1 oz, Silver Philharmonic 1 oz, Silver Eagle 1 oz, Silver Maple 1 oz, Silver Bar 100 oz, Platinum Eagle 1 oz, Palladium Maple 1 oz, Silver Maple Olympic Coin 1 oz.

    These products will be relisted and available for order as soon as fresh inventory is readily available. In the interim, we will focus on completing pending orders as our top priority."(snip)


    the 'tin foil hat' crowd is of the opinion that, based on today's probable election results, international confidence in the US dollar is likely to experience a steep and sudden decline. Thus US gold stores have been used to 'artificially' prop the US dollar's exchange rate to create a window of opportunity for 'big money investors' to move their money out of the US economy and into offshore alternatives (a.k.a. tax havens) with a minimum of additional losses. The 'tin foil hat' crowd is then of the opinion that once 'tax and spend and borrow and spend more' policies are firmly in place in Washington DC, the US dollar will tank and the US dollar denominated price of gold - as well as the US dollar denominated price of oil / gas / food and other imports - will skyrocket !

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-04-2008 at 03:28 AM.

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    is an alternative scenario possible where our foreign creditors could demand that the US props up the value of the dollar ( by backing it with some "hard" commodity, maybe?) so that the dollar will remain the reserve curreny, and the creditors' huge Forex reserves do not risk seeing a major decline, and in return they'll continue to loan to us? Then our creditors will be the clear winners and the Americans who are deep in debt will have to be paying off their debt in much more "expensive" dollars?

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    ^^^ the deflationary scenario you describe would indeed be advantageous to the Chinese / Japanese / Saudis who hold trillions of US trade deficit dollars. But from a domestic political-economic standpoint the deflationary scenario is extremely painful for every registered voter who owns a mortgaged house, a car bought with a loan, a maxxed out credit card etc. Thus the answer to your question is really a political one ... whether FED policy would be willing to inflict incredible amounts of pain on US registered voters in order to placate the Chinese / Japanese / Saudis, or whether FED policy would be willing to 'pull an Argentina' on the Chinese / Japanese / Saudis but make US registered voters happy by making the 'true' value of their mortgage / car / credit card loan balances shrink by inflating the US dollar instead. In essence, this is the key issue in today's election !

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    so with the election reults decided, are we going to Argentina scenario?

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    ^^^ unfortunately, the answer to that question is as much political as it is economic. Basically the US gov't has three other choices

    - they can increase actual tax revenues via in increase in income tax rates, capital gains tax rates, enacting or increasing tariffs on imported goods etc.

    - they can decrease actual gov't expenditures ... with the four biggest cut targets being gov't worker job eliminations, cuts in social welfare program spending, cuts in military spending, and abandoning bailout / stimulus programs

    - they can default on US Treasury Bond payments a la Argentina, and attempt to 'renegotiate' with main bond holders China, Japan and the Saudis (i.e. paying off at 70 cents on the dollar if following the Argentine example)

    Compared to the political and economic risk of any of these three options, it would appear to be much less controversial to simply keep devaluing the US dollar (and with it the debt service burden of existing government and private debts denominated in US dollars).

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    here's some 'professional' commentary on this subject ...

    (snip)"Economics has less to do with money than power.

    Modern economics is not rocket science. Modern economics is a fraud. Metrics such as “monetary aggregates” and the “velocity of money” are merely devices meant to divert attention away from the fraud in progress.

    Focusing on such metrics has been a critical component in the success of the bankers’ extraordinary shell game of modern economics. But the current crisis has not only interrupted the bankers’ confidence game, it has shed unexpected light on the precarious positions of those fleeced

    The producers, savers, entrepreneurs who had previously accepted the banker’s credit based money as legitimate are now discovering they were but suckers in an opaque and cleverly constructed street game, sic Wall Street’s, designed to defraud the unsuspecting and vulnerable onlookers and players.

    The greatest casualty of today’s unfolding crisis is the belief that bankers are performing a needed function in today’s world. It is true that in credit driven capital economies founded on debt-based money issued by central banks, bankers are essential. In confidence games, con-men always play a critical role; the banker’s shell game of modern economics is no exception.

    Modern economics is a system whereby bankers inserted compounding credit with debt-based paper money into every aspect of commerce; and are thus able to live like parasites partying off the productivity of others (gotta love those billion dollar bonuses!). Only now is this becoming obvious; for only when a confidence game breaks down, does the truth become clear.

    AAA SUBPRIME COLLATERIZED DEBT OBLIGATIONS

    The bankers con game began to disintegrate when US sub prime collaterized debt obligations were given the highest AAA ratings by rating agencies, i.e. Moody’s, Standard & Poor, Fitch, etc.; and, when the AAA rated securities began to default, investor confidence in the bankers’ global con game began to default as well. The rest is history—or soon will be.

    The AAA rating granted to sub prime CDOs is the same rating that is given to AAA US government treasuries. According to the rating agencies, the creditworthiness of US sub prime borrowers is no different than that accorded to the US government—and unfortunately the credit agencies are right.

    The major holders of US treasuries—China, Japan, Russia, sovereign wealth funds, pension funds, insurance companies and investors—will soon discover is that the US is no more able to pay its $13 trillion of dollars of debt than sub prime borrowers can pay the $1.3 trillion dollars owed on sub prime mortgages."(snip)

    (snip)"THE IMF AND THE US

    Because the US, the world’s lender of last resort, is itself bankrupt, the world economy is in danger of collapse. The IMF has now been asked to bail out Iceland, Pakistan, Hungary and Ukraine. The US may very well be the next IMF client.

    What has happened this fall has eclipsed everything that has gone before. What will happen next year will eclipse what is now happening this fall. The crisis is growing as the end-game of capitalism approaches its end irrespective of what central banks try to do.

    This time the bankers overstepped themselves in such a way they have brought destruction not only on society but on themselves as well. It is only right that they should suffer too—as, after all, it is they who caused our problems.

    It is unfortunate that society is being forced to lessen the burden on bankers even as bankers continue to indebt society. But, then again, that’s what government is for—to act as the bankers’ agents in the continuing indebting of nations, businesses, producers and savers."(snip)

    from

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    here's some 'professional' commentary on this subject ...
    I am not so sure how 'professional' the commentary is. Or at least how informed the commentator is.

    "...The AAA rating granted to sub prime CDOs is the same rating that is given to AAA US government treasuries. According to the rating agencies, the creditworthiness of US sub prime borrowers is no different than that accorded to the US government—and unfortunately the credit agencies are right.

    The major holders of US treasuries—China, Japan, Russia, sovereign wealth funds, pension funds, insurance companies and investors—will soon discover is that the US is no more able to pay its $13 trillion of dollars of debt than sub prime borrowers can pay the $1.3 trillion dollars owed on sub prime mortgages."(snip)"

    As of June 2008, the latest date reported by the Treasury Department, the US total public debt stood at $9.492 trillion. Of that, $4.685 trillion (49%) was held by the United States government. The remaining $4.806 trillion was held by: depository institutions $126.7 billion, U.S. Savings Bond holders $195.4 billion, private pension funds $223.7 billion, state and local government pension funds $167.7 billion, insuance companies $135.8 billion, mutual funds $468.2 billion, state and local governments (other than pension funds) $520.2 billion, foreign governments and international investors $2.648 trillion and others about $389 billion.

    "(snip)"... The crisis is growing as the end-game of capitalism approaches its end irrespective of what central banks try to do.[/quote]There is the problem, the central premise of the entire article is this is the end of capitalism. Quite simply it is not. We are in a recession. That is in the nature of capitalism, not a sign of the end of capitalism. The problem is not our federal debt being owned by foreigners, only a quarter of it is. The problem is we have quit creating wealth and instead are living on our vast accumulation of wealth. That is the central problem facing us and that is what we must attack immediately.

    Z

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    I am not so sure how 'professional' the commentary is.
    thus my use of quotation marks on 'professional'.

    the central premise of the entire article is this is the end of capitalism
    I would counter that the central premise of the article actually deals with US gov't policies that appear to be veering away from capitalism. The repayment of US gov't bond debt (or potential lack thereof) does not stem from free market capitalism, it stems from future US gov't monetary policy.

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    1.

    http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080729/115190507.html

    "Russia and China are considering ways to expand the use of the ruble and the yuan in their settlements, Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin said after his short visit to Shanghai.
    Analysts say transition to local currencies in bilateral trade would boost the partners' economies, because quite a few Russian and Chinese trade and financial companies would easily abandon the U.S. dollar in their mutual settlements."

    2.

    Russia claims it has as much gold as the IMF:
    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...gi?read=135365

    3.

    http://www.ruvr.ru/main.php?lng=eng&...6&p=06.11.2008

    "President Medvedev has called for the overhaul of the global financial system. He was talking to newsmen in Moscow after a round of talks with Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi. He said he and prime minister Berlusconi had discussed a number of problems, including the global economic crisis. It was evident, he said, that all nations were crying out for an overhaul of the financial system because the existing financial system failed to do what it was supposed to do. Russia had already voiced its vision of that problem and would be ready to discuss it with the world’s leading nations on the 15th of this month in Washington. What mattered most was moves to build collective mechanisms and assume the burden of collective responsibility, Medvedev said."


    Trying to connect the dots...

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    since the bankers won't go down without a fight, I am afraid to think of the possible "events" that could be created in order to draw the attention of the populace away from the economic issues...

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    ^^^ not wanting to be overly political in Dollar Den, but the bankers won't have to 'fight' now that their #1 'bailout' advocate ( and probably #1 Wall St. political contribution recipient outside of the presidential candidates ), representative Rahm Emanuel, will be appointed as Chief of Staff in the Obama white house.

    Also, at risk of tiptoeing across the line of economics versus politics, it is important to know where our president elect stands on the issue of Wall St. 'bailouts' ...

    (snip)"The Center For Responsive Politics informs us that of the top 20 sources of campaign cash for Obama, 11 were from either investment banks or law firms closely tied to these financial institutions, and the list of big corporate donors – especially the bundlers – is truly awe-inspiring. They include: John W. Roberts, of Ariel Capital Management (over $500,000), Jim Torrey, Founder of the Torrey Hedge Funds over $500,000), Charles Lewis,Vice Chairman of Merrill Lynch, Richard Leweke, Vice Chairman of Washington Mutual Card Services, Seth Waugh, CEO of Deutsche Bank. Over $200,000: Louis Susman, of Citi Investment Banking, J. Michael Schell, managing director at Citigroup, David Heller and Bruce Heyman, both managing directors at Goldman Sachs, Michael Froman, managing director at Citigroup. Francisco Borges, chairman of Landmark Partners a private equity real estate firm, bundled $50,000 for Obama, as did Todd Williams, a managing director at Goldman Sachs and the Real Estate Council.

    Obama’s backers in the world of high finance—platoons of top execs from Lehman Brothers, Wachovia, Washington Mutual, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, JP Morgan, Chase, Morgan Stanley, Countrywide—were all intimately involved in the mortgage fiasco. They profited, bigtime, from the Greenspan Bubble, and now they expect their bought-and-paid-for presidential candidate to bail them out – and he hasn’t disappointed them.

    He hemmed and hawed in his Senate speech advocating a “yes’ vote for the bailout, listing all the reasons why the banksters shouldn’t get their 700 billion bucks, and acknowledging the widespread skepticism among the public (as opposed to the elites, who are, quite naturally, for it). But still, he averred, there is no real separation between Main Street and Wall Street.” We’re all in this together, blah, blah, blah…

    That is nonsense, to be sure: Banks, particularly investment banks, are no more like ordinary businesses than, say, the US Post Office is like Fed Ex, or the CIA is like a private eye. Main Street sells real goods and services: in an economy that is increasingly socialized at its commanding heights, however, Wall Street peddles Ponzi schemes and political candidates. And their favorite this year is Barack Obama, the designated messiah of the Overclass.

    The idea is that by supporting Obama they can avoid social revolution—appeasing both the gods of political correctness and the Fortune 500. Riding into the fray on a white charger, his banner emblazoned with the “Deflation—Never!” slogan that is the battle-cry of finance capital in a state capitalist society, Obama is the Establishment’s trump card, the elite’s last hope of salvaging its power, prestige, and wealth from the coming implosion. It is a remarkable marketing operation—to create a populist and even a revolutionary persona out of someone who is, essentially, a creation of his corporate overlords—but it looks like they’re going to pull it off. "(snip)

    from

    circling back to the original point of this thread, it would appear that the US gov'ts policy of 'bailing out' important companies, and printing up new US dollars by the truckload in order to do so, is not going to end on January 20th. This implies that the US dollar is going to be crucified eventually in terms of international 'purchasing power'. It also implies that the US gov't is going to wind up being a 'not so silent partner' in the businesses it chooses to bail out. And finally it implies that at least some foreign creditors are expecting repayment with something of 'real value' ... which would explain the apparent outflows of US gold reserves to the point where coin-melt gold bars are now winding up in overseas markets.
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-07-2008 at 11:28 PM.

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    Default Re: some interesting precious metals news from foreign sources ...

    Mission accomplished, for as long as Obama can keep reading the script


    ((( link deleted due to non-economic content - Melonie )))
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-08-2008 at 09:05 AM.

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