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Thread: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

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    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Yeah and while you're waitng for them to finish their coffee and doughnuts and come on over; what are you supposed to do ? I'm not advocating shooting an unarmed burglar but I'd certainly hold one at gunpoint until the cops got there and if he was armed; I'd make sure to shoot first.
    I think that's disproportionate. Life has a higher value than property. I think a citizen's arrest might be appropriate, but certainly not killing the offender. As I've said, this amounts to a de facto death penalty for theft, and in that respect, is not unlike the regimes in countries like Saudi Arabia (where punishment for theft is commonly mutilation), which most US citizens have no problem criticising.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    The only thing about property is that it's hard to know whether someone is armed and whether they broke into your house to steal your TV or rape your wife or who knows what. I have to say that if I did happen to have a gun and if I happened to hear someone in my house at night, I could see myself shooting. I'd be making a hasty decision out of fear at the very least.
    The artist formerly known as your mom

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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    Jeez, if only I'd lived in Texas, it would have been just fine and dandy for me to stab my brother to stop him eating my Lean Cuisines .
    Maybe so. But only if he had broken into your house to steal, not just visit. Gotta be careful there.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    I think that's disproportionate. Life has a higher value than property. I think a citizen's arrest might be appropriate, but certainly not killing the offender. As I've said, this amounts to a de facto death penalty for theft, and in that respect, is not unlike the regimes in countries like Saudi Arabia (where punishment for theft is commonly mutilation), which most US citizens have no problem criticising.
    I know Australia has a low crime rate. For all I know, maybe you guys don't lock your doors as in SOME parts of Canada. But if some creep breaks into my house ,first he's going to have to deal with my dog who's been trained to deal with intruders "with extreme prejudice". Then I'm going to call off my dog and crack his head open with a baseball bat. In America we call that " a strong demonstration of private property rights. " And then I'll let the cops deal with what's left of him. And I'll sleep like a baby.

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    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    ^

    Why do you need to crack someone's head open if your dog's happy to bail them up 'til the cops get there?

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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    so his dog doesn't get a sore throat
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    I'm with Eric on this one. if I catch an intruder in my house, I will do my best to see he leaves in a body bag.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    so his dog doesn't get a sore throat
    I don't mind the personal insults. And I don't mind insults directed at my dog; "Casey".
    But Casey does mind and asked me to type the following response : " Arf; grrrr; yip; yip; bark; grrrr ; bark, bark; yelp." I don't have time to translate but trust me, he got even.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 11-17-2008 at 01:29 PM.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    ^

    Why do you need to crack someone's head open if your dog's happy to bail them up 'til the cops get there?
    My dog is trained to go for the groin. It forces the intruder to lower his hands and arms giving me a free swing at their head. Fortunately, I've never had to do it for real. He's also trained NOT to bark at intruders. We don't want to ruin the "surprise".

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    I've had an intruder in my house, with a loaded weapon pointing at a guest, but not to rob, just to intimidate. I was not in the immediate area, so I called the cops. They took away all his guns but didn't even arrest him for drunk driving or tresspassing or menacing. I had to get the DA's involved because that guy had friends in the cops clique. Still nothing else happened to him; he didn't even get arraigned. Creeps! If he would have fired, someone would have gotten hurt. And I would have clubbed him with my crowbar as he left the house, and he would have been skull-crushed dead (with no one left to sue me). I am far from violent, but I will not let friends be hurt in my house.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    I am awaiting the crime stats for the next year regarding gun violence and hate crimes- specifically against Black and Latino persons. My guess is that there will be a sharp spike in both that correlates exactly with the recent rise in gun sales.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    ^^^ I'll take that bet ... given that the vast majority of gun crimes against black and latino persons are perped by other black or latino persons ... whereas the vast majority of recent gun sales / registrations have been to suburban and rural white persons.

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    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    My dog is trained to go for the groin. It forces the intruder to lower his hands and arms giving me a free swing at their head. Fortunately, I've never had to do it for real. He's also trained NOT to bark at intruders. We don't want to ruin the "surprise".
    What kind of dog is he?

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    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ I'll take that bet ... given that the vast majority of gun crimes against black and latino persons are perped by other black or latino persons ... whereas the vast majority of recent gun sales / registrations have been to suburban and rural white persons.
    Either you didn't understand my comment or maybe I wasn't clear. I meant I am interested is seeing future stats of gun violence connected to hate crimes. Specifically if they rise will it correlate with the rise in gun sales or not.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    ^^^ Yes this was my understanding. My point was that an increase in registered, legal gun purchases by people who are predominantly white and suburban doesn't necessarily correlate with the guns involved in crimes against black or latino victims ... because the latter primarily occurs in large cities, and the latter primarily involves the use of non-registered, illegal guns. The legal gun sales statistic does NOT measure an increase in the supply of non-registered, illegal guns ( for some reason the drug importers, transnational gangs etc. don't keep statistics on their illegal gun shipments across the Mexican border ).

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy in the Sky View Post
    Either you didn't understand my comment or maybe I wasn't clear. I meant I am interested is seeing future stats of gun violence connected to hate crimes. Specifically if they rise will it correlate with the rise in gun sales or not.
    Why not just go find past stats? It not as if those racist white folks buying guns don't have guns already. You'd think they'd have been doing all those hate crimes while the GOP was in charge.

    Regardless of what happens, I'm sure folks on both sides of this issue will out of context the results to make the statistics look like they say something that they don't.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    Regardless of what happens, I'm sure folks on both sides of this issue will out of context the results to make the statistics look like they say something that they don't.
    You didn't actually expect anything different from people with strong political views, did you?

    Narcissus

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    What kind of dog is he?
    He's 3/4 German Shepherd with 1/4 Labrador.

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    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ Yes this was my understanding. My point was that an increase in registered, legal gun purchases by people who are predominantly white and suburban doesn't necessarily correlate with the guns involved in crimes against black or latino victims ... because the latter primarily occurs in large cities, and the latter primarily involves the use of non-registered, illegal guns. The legal gun sales statistic does NOT measure an increase in the supply of non-registered, illegal guns ( for some reason the drug importers, transnational gangs etc. don't keep statistics on their illegal gun shipments across the Mexican border ).

    I know all that other stuff already. What I am getting at is that I am interested to see if any of that changes or not in the short term in connection with the rise in gun sales. I am not saying it will or won't- I'm just curious to see what if anything happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    Why not just go find past stats? It not as if those racist white folks buying guns don't have guns already. You'd think they'd have been doing all those hate crimes while the GOP was in charge.
    Because I am curious about the stats from the election on not prior. I want to see if it make a difference or not.

    I know that since the GOP and Minutemen groups publicly went after immigration that hate crimes against Latinos has increased dramatically so I am curious to see if anything similar happens in correlation to this spike in gun sales or not.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy in the Sky View Post
    I know that since the GOP and Minutemen groups publicly went after immigration that hate crimes against Latinos has increased dramatically so I am curious to see if anything similar happens in correlation to this spike in gun sales or not.
    Please provide statistical proof of this dramatic increase in hate crimes against Latinos, especially crimes involving weapons.

    Please note that arresting, detaining, and deporting an illegal alien does not constitute a hate crime.

    What about providing some statistics comparing illegal aliens as the perpetrators of crimes vs. being the victims of crimes?
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Please provide statistical proof of this dramatic increase in hate crimes against Latinos, especially crimes involving weapons.

    Please note that arresting, detaining, and deporting an illegal alien does not constitute a hate crime.
    I don't normally respond to you due to a VERY, VERY deep and severe dislike of your personality and opinions but I will make an exception this time because it is regarding a serious and factual issue rather than opinions.

    This should get you started. It includes FBI stats as well as stats from the very well respected Southern Poverty Law Center

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy in the Sky View Post
    I don't normally respond to you due to a VERY, VERY deep and severe dislike of your personality and opinions but I will make an exception this time because it is regarding a serious and factual issue rather than opinions.

    This should get you started. It includes FBI stats as well as stats from the very well respected Southern Poverty Law Center

    http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/1...r-fourth-year/
    The last paragraph of your article indicates all races are approximately equally victimized by hate crimes on a per capita basis, which is kind of what I would have expected.

    Without going too deeply into the topic, a 10% increase over 4 years ( 2.5% per year) in Hispanic victims of hates crimes coming when the population of Hispanics is increasing at a rate around 5% per year means that the average Hispanic is becoming less and less likely individually to be a victim of a hate crime. In other words, I would argue that things aren't getting worse for the average Hispanic person regarding hate crimes.

    As regards the guns laws, I think that those predisposed to violent hate crimes are not going to be more likely to commit them because guns are more readily available. They probably already have guns, legal or not.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    a 10% increase over 4 years
    Incorrect. Read it again. It's 40% not 10%. Big difference.

    FBI stats show this started in 2003 which correlates almost exactly to the GOP lead push back on illegal immigration. Is that just a coincidence? Personally I think not.

    I’m just wondering if the future will show a similar result related to these gun sales. Who knows if it will or won’t. It just crossed my mind as a possibility.
    Last edited by Lucy in the Sky; 11-18-2008 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
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    Default Re: You knew this was going to be a result of Obama getting elected

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
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