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Thread: Obama plans instute forced servitude

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    Default Obama plans instute forced servitude

    The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
    Note how this plan doesn't include highschool dropout's or those who get welfare benefits.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Interesting idea you pose there, JML. For a person to get welfare (or even unemployment past a certain timeframe?) should that person have to volunteer a certain number of hours at a local non-profit?

    Benefits:
    * job experience for the recipient
    * community enhancement

    I like the call to service, but I fear that forcing kids in school to volunteer will turn them off to volunteerism after they're done. School turned us off to everything else...

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    They would likely put in their public service hours in the same manner as they would go to class. Half a day a month some kids get on a bus and go rake leaves in a public park or tutor younger children or help an elderly person clean her garage.

    College students would likely take on tutoring of children, driving the elderly to appointments, rebuilding homes damaged in natural disasters and the like.

    This would be in exchange for school credit, hence the reason why it wouldn't apply to high school drop outs. I bet if we have more tutors in the lower grades, less kids would drop out of high school.

    I think this sounds like a wonderful idea. I'd be very happy to put in some time baby sitting for a single parent or building a wheelchair ramp for a handicapped person in exchange for college credit.


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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    I think it's a nice idea. What concerns me is CHOICE. I believe free agency should be preserved at all costs, since after all that's what America was founded on. They should be able to CHOOSE to do community service for credit, not be forced by the government.


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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    ^^No one is forced to do anything by the government (unless they are in jail, of course). Just like you aren't allowed to graduate unless you complete the minimum educational requirements, I have a feeling that community service would be required in a similar fashion. And just like some schools graduate students who can't read or write or do basic math, I'm sure some schools will graduate students w/o the required community service credits, as well.


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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    ^ Required community service is enforced in jail or for reparation of a crime, so expanding it to schools doesn't seem somewhat forced by the government?

    The main focus of schools is to educate, thus completing educational requirements like reading, writing and math are essential to graduation.

    Required community service is outside the scope of education.

    Volunteering should remain just that, voluntary.


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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Not sure what you mean by 'college credits.' College is for learning, not just getting a cert. Maybe college payment credits, not credit hours in return for good deeds, which is not learning anything toward a legitimate degree.
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    ^^^ No, that's the idea! I like it a lot actually. The idea is that if you need help paying for college, the gov will help you out to an extent provided that you commit yourself to a certain number of hours of volunteer work.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    So the govt is helping you pay for college.... I suppose in return for increased income taxes when you get a better job. The govt gives students tax deductions for education to improve their skills in 'related' work already and for interest on college loans. Guess this isnt really much different.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Personally though, I think that asking middle school kids to commit to 50 hours/year is a bit much. They're kids! Maybe 50 hours for the whole middle school time (2-3 years), but per year? Kids need breathing room. They're already overscheduled for the most part (or wasting time on video games I guess).

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    ^^^ No, that's the idea! I like it a lot actually. The idea is that if you need help paying for college, the gov will help you out to an extent provided that you commit yourself to a certain number of hours of volunteer work.
    The wealthy need not serve.

    This is merely the first steps to socialism, Comrade. What have YOU done for the state lately?

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    The wealthy need not serve.

    This is merely the first steps to socialism, Comrade. What have YOU done for the state lately?
    This is a contradiction.

    The wealthy do not serve because they can pay for college.

    Isn't it an American idea to make students earn the extra government money? If private loans and scholarships don't cut it, I think it's an easy way of giving back for the extra help while simultaneously improving your academic transcript and resume.

    You neocons bitch about entitlement and now you're bitching that Obama plans to have students trade their time for college $$.

    Oh, and what have I done for the state lately? I've been volunteering at a hospital. Yeah.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    This is a contradiction.

    The wealthy do not serve because they can pay for college.

    Isn't it an American idea to make students earn the extra government money? If private loans and scholarships don't cut it, I think it's an easy way of giving back for the extra help while simultaneously improving your academic transcript and resume.

    You neocons bitch about entitlement and now you're bitching that Obama plans to have students trade their time for college $$.

    Oh, and what have I done for the state lately? I've been volunteering at a hospital. Yeah.
    A) You need to look up what a "rhetorical" question is.

    B) I'm not reading it as making extra money like a "work program" - I'm reading it as "if you want a degree you better do your time for the state."

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    Personally though, I think that asking middle school kids to commit to 50 hours/year is a bit much. They're kids!
    That's less that one hour per week every year. I assure you they can sacrifice an hour a week on facebook, texting on their cell phone or playing Madden on their PSP.

    Nonetheless, I hope this whole plan is something participants can volunteer for in exchange for something, and not a "requirement" that all students have to complete. I also fear that this is going to be held to the same shoddy accounting standards that AmeriCorps has.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    A) You need to look up what a "rhetorical" question is.

    B) I'm not reading it as making extra money like a "work program" - I'm reading it as "if you want a degree you better do your time for the state."
    A) I was fully aware that you meant that question to be rhetorical. Don't condescend me.

    B) It's better than getting no money at all, yes?

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude



    In case your Deutsch is a bit rusty ... "Every girl belongs to us"

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post


    In case your Deutsch is a bit rusty ... "Every girl belongs to us"
    That comparison is a little extreme, to say the least.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    ^^^ No, that's the idea! I like it a lot actually. The idea is that if you need help paying for college, the gov will help you out to an extent provided that you commit yourself to a certain number of hours of volunteer work.
    I got the impression that it was more like an internship. The kind of hands on type of work that looks really nice on a resume, but doesn't pay much, if anything at all. For instance, if you are going into architecture, you might go to work for Habitat for Humanity, or if you are going to school to be a teacher, you might work as a tutor. For a medical degree you might assist as a school nurse or work in a free clinic. That is what I thought was intended.

    High school or middle school kids could explore different educational paths through volunteerism as well.

    Ya'll are acting like kids are going to be forced to do nonsense busy work. If kids like plants and horticulture, they can work on community gardens, if they like music they can work with local symphonies, if they like cooking, they can help a soup kitchen, if they like animals they can work at the local humane society. Sheesh!

    How is that bad for a child's education, to explore career paths through volunteerism? I don't see the down side. Isn't education about exploring your world and the possibilities for the future?

    Just about any career a child or college student wishes to explore is likely to have an internship or volunteership need. Doing a little exploration before entering the work world would do a lot of people good. How many adults are working in the feild they went to school for today? Hardly any. Getting students into the feild sooner, will help people choose the right paths for themselves, instead of wasting time on a degree that they hate.


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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    I like the idea of giving people who volunteer something for voulunteering, but I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone.

    For every kid that goes to a hospital, two will do something at there church or the library which are cop out stuff.

    Make it volunteering that actually helps people and the country.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    That comparison is a little extreme, to say the least
    It was meant to be ... because this proposal is also a little extreme. If you apply Occam's Razor to the proposal, the bottom line establishes a precedent that anyone who accepts gov't assistance in the future would 'owe' the government some measure of their own labor in exchange for that assistance. The contrasting position of course is that those who can afford to pay their own way would be free of such obligation to the government ( in this case attending private schools versus public schools, and declining gov't grants / loans while attending college). This is a first step in instituting an official two class society, where the lower class is no longer free of gov't 'meddling' in their personal affairs.

    Actually, this very same precedent is also being discussed in the context of future gov't bailouts of US corporations ... specifically the $50 billion FED loan being discussed for General Motors. One of the conditions being proposed by Nancy Pelosi is that gov't would then be able to dictate what sort of cars and trucks General Motors should produce (irrespective of market acceptance or profitability to the company and its stockholders).

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    It was meant to be ... because this proposal is also a little extreme. If you apply Occam's Razor to the proposal, the bottom line establishes a precedent that anyone who accepts gov't assistance in the future would 'owe' the government some measure of their own labor in exchange for that assistance. The contrasting position of course is that those who can afford to pay their own way would be free of such obligation to the government ( in this case attending private schools versus public schools, and declining gov't grants / loans while attending college). This is a first step in instituting an official two class society, where the lower class is no longer free of gov't 'meddling' in their personal affairs.

    Actually, this very same precedent is also being discussed in the context of future gov't bailouts of US corporations ... specifically the $50 billion FED loan being discussed for General Motors. One of the conditions being proposed by Nancy Pelosi is that gov't would then be able to dictate what sort of cars and trucks General Motors should produce (irrespective of market acceptance or profitability to the company and its stockholders).
    I don't know that it's extreme. It's certainly not unprecedented- similar programs were instituted by FDR during the Depression era. Welfare programs involved performing community service rather than just receiving a hand-out. I would think that such a proposal would appeal to the Protestant ethic of many Americans, given that the general consensus tends to be against the receipt of benefits without working for them. This seems like a way to pay for a service with something other than money. Those who pay their way in currency have already paid, obviously.

    It's not uncommon or even questionable that government assistance should come with conditions. It seems hypocritical to accept government money and yet rail against governmental interference.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    If you want to point at forced volunteerism as part of government compulsory service, you may want to look no further than the army. I wonder how many soldiers would like to have quit their jobs after the four years they signed up for only to be told that they were being "stop-lossed" ie; forced to continue to serve.


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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    If you want to point at forced volunteerism as part of government compulsory service, you may want to look no further than the army. I wonder how many soldiers would like to have quit their jobs after the four years they signed up for only to be told that they were being "stop-lossed" ie; forced to continue to serve.
    When you sign up for the military, you dont sign up for 4 years. EVERYONE signs up for 8!!! Thats right 8!!!!!!!So if you TINK you signed up for 4, your wrong, you just no longer have to serve active duty UNLESS you are needed. But I assure you it is in EVERONES contract. THey signed up for 8!!! AND you singed up knowing about stoploss, cuz its IN TE CONTRACT. If you didnt read it, tough shit.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    on the topic at hand, volunteer ... hmm ... the definition is to so work without pay at your own free will. Well, if it is mandatory then that takes away the free will part. If they are getting credit, monetary or credit hours, that takes away the free wil part. SO now it isnt volunteer work, it is community service work that you are getting paid for. I have a better idea. If they need the help tell them to go get JOBS!!!! They can get those "feel good jobs" that dont pay shit, and they can still go clean shit out of a doggy kenel on the weekends.
    This should not be mandatory, I am so glad I will homeschool my kids.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    This should not be mandatory, I am so glad I will homeschool my kids
    I wouldn't count on that unless you yourself have obtained accredited teaching credentials, given previous 'liberal' positions / court ruling on the subject and the fact that politicians holding similar 'liberal' positions will have majority control of Washington DC in a couple of months !

    (snip)"The California Court of Appeal ruled Feb. 28 that it is illegal for parents without teaching credentials to home school their children. Violation of that law can lead to fines and criminal prosecution. The court even warned that such violations would subject parents to the juvenile court system." The threat is clear: Home-schooling families can end up in jail or even possibly lose custody of their children if they don't comply."(snip)

    from

    ... thus for 99% of home schooling parents, if / when this 'liberal' legal interpretation is implemented in federal law, it will force children to attend a school staffed with accredited credentialed teachers. If the parents can afford a private school (and one that does not accept gov't assistance in any form), then the children will be free of 'obligations' to the gov't. However, if the parents cannot afford this such that their children must attend a public school (or private school that accepts gov't assistance) then the children WILL be subject ot gov't mandated 'obligations'.

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